The closer (or lack thereof) thread

[adambr2]

I don't think Axford is going to right the ship. He just isn't the same anymore.

[TURBO]

Listening to our manager right now makes me want to puke.

 

Can't stomach it anymore.

 

*click*

[reillymcshane]

Axford needs to go to AAA at this point. Mainly to prevent RRR from putting him into pressure situations and losing games. Apparently he isn't smart enough to avoid doing that himself.

This is probably the call for me. Axford is pitching awful. We have guys at AAA who can come up. Do it.

[SuddenRedScare]

I don't know if it was mentioned on the broadcast tonight but it seems like he's running his fastball instead of staying on top of it. Wasn't that part of the problem he had last year?

[Ennder]

Listening to our manager right now makes me want to puke.

 

Can't stomach it anymore.

 

*click*

 

You do realize nothing he says in these interviews has anything to do with anything right? He can't say Axford is awful and should be taken out back and shot even if he believes it. Judge him by what he did on the field (which was a bad choice mind you). The interviews after the game are worthless.

[PrinceEatMeat]

Listening to our manager right now makes me want to puke.

 

Can't stomach it anymore.

 

*click*

 

Here's my favorite part. RRR, “We’ll just keep doing the same thing and hopefully we’ll have him where we can use him just clean innings in the sixth or the seventh inning, somewhere in there. Once in a while, it may be the eighth, depending on what happens with the game.”

[djoctagone]

why can't they have axford start a game and pitch the first inning? he'll likely face the top hitters in the lineup, but it'll be a low pressure situation. granted, it burns a reliever, but if the rest of the bullpen is on board with it, it's ok.

[Hitman_Hart]

why can't they have axford start a game and pitch the first inning? he'll likely face the top hitters in the lineup, but it'll be a low pressure situation. granted, it burns a reliever, but if the rest of the bullpen is on board with it, it's ok.

 

I seem to remember LaRussa trying this strategy a couple of years ago. I don't believe it ended well.

[prophet]

why can't they have axford start a game and pitch the first inning? he'll likely face the top hitters in the lineup, but it'll be a low pressure situation. granted, it burns a reliever, but if the rest of the bullpen is on board with it, it's ok.

 

Better yet, you could just go to the opposing manager and say "we'll spot you 3 runs if we can skip the first inning and start the game in the second." It would basically be the same results.

[JohnBriggs12]

He still has options. It's time to use one. Jesus Sanchez is on the 40 man. He'd be more useful than Axford at this point. When and if Axford gets it back, they will know.

[xisxisxis]

I think it's time to convert Rogers into a reliever and groom him for the closer role. He'll struggle with control at times, but he has the stuff to be a reasonable closer and he might actually avoid the DL and pitch a full season.

[pogokat]

The team actually announced yesterday that Rogers will return to the team as a reliever...

 

i think the only reason they haven't already done this is the concern that he can't pitch on multiple days in a row

[torts]

The team actually announced yesterday that Rogers will return to the team as a reliever...

 

i think the only reason they haven't already done this is the concern that he can't pitch on multiple days in a row

 

I think its more likely for Rogers to get one good inning 2 - 3 games in a row than 6 good innings every 5 days. thats just my uneducated opinion, I just feel like he's a guy who will actually thrive from this change from SP to RP.

[Oxy]

Is three good outings in a row enough to put Ax in for higher leverage situations? I think I'd give him the 7tn or 8th in a tight game at this point. Roll with that until he loses it again or if Henderson loses it first put Ax back out there in the 9th.

 

I haven't actually seen him pitch in these clean outings though. Is he locating well? Fastball back up to 95+?

[brwrsfan]

I was at the game on Tuesday night...Axford topped out at 94 from what I saw. He also had two balls hit within about 5 feet of being over the wall. Until he starts hitting 96-98 again, I'd keep him where he's at.

 

I don't know if he's hurt, if he lost it or if he's dialing it back to throw strikes but he needs that velocity to be effective.

 

He has located his breaking ball better lately, so thats a positive I guess.

[jerichoholicninja]

Three good outings is not enough but it probably has convinced Ron to put him back in the 9th. Let the BS'es commence!!!

[vegasbrewcrew1993]

I was at the game on Tuesday night...Axford topped out at 94 from what I saw. He also had two balls hit within about 5 feet of being over the wall. Until he starts hitting 96-98 again, I'd keep him where he's at.

 

I don't know if he's hurt, if he lost it or if he's dialing it back to throw strikes but he needs that velocity to be effective.

 

He has located his breaking ball better lately, so thats a positive I guess.

 

I think that the breaking ball is key to Axford's success. I remember in 2011 he would throw a wicked curveball. After the curveball he'd throw some nasty heat. Does Axford have another breaking pitch? I think he should rely on the breaking ball and toss in the fastball to compliment it. Just when you think he's going to throw a change-up, Ax throws 99 heat.

[SoupTown]

I am so interested in the sabre guys who say there is no such thing at clutch. And yet, we seemingly have a plethora of pitchers in MLB who can pitch in the 6yh and 7th inning. But if they need to throw in the 8th... it is 50/50 if they can perform. And in the 9th... no, no, no chance. The occasion is just too big for them.

 

Dare I ask... if there is no such thing as clutch... why cannot a reliever pitch to his ability in 'any' inning he must pitch. Should we blindfold them and tell them it is the 6th inning and we are down by 8 runs... so they can perform. And yet... clutch does not exist. How can all this contradictory information be so?

[logan82]

There is clutch. The general thinking seems to be that clutch isn't predictable.

[endaround]

Since Axford has one of the longest consecutive save streaks he therefore must be clutch and only the unclutchness of other Brewers causes him to blow saves.

[rluzinski]

Since Axford has one of the longest consecutive save streaks he therefore must be clutch and only the unclutchness of other Brewers causes him to blow saves.

 

Axford is exhibit A that fans have no idea what they are talking about when they say this player or that is clutch or can handle the pressure or whatever cliche they want to use.

 

A couple of years ago, it was clear to every fan that Axford was clutch has all hell and had ice running through his veins. That was obvious, since you can't have success as a closer without those kinds of qualities. Never mind he basically went from being a minorleaguer to the everyday closer overnight (something that is not supposed to be possible, since young guys will obviously piss themselves in those kind of high pressure situations). This guy was a closer's closer!

 

Now, it's clear that Axford has none of those qualities. How could he, since he's pitching scared and timid and without confidence? I mean, you just have to watch the guy pitch... it's obvious!

 

Basically, you guys just make this stuff up as you go or parrot whatever you here the guys on the TV say. Create a narrative to fit the situation, use anecdotes to support it, repeat.

[Oxy]

Since Axford has one of the longest consecutive save streaks he therefore must be clutch and only the unclutchness of other Brewers causes him to blow saves.

 

Axford is exhibit A that fans have no idea what they are talking about when they say this player or that is clutch or can handle the pressure or whatever cliche they want to use.

 

A couple of years ago, it was clear to every fan that Axford was clutch has all hell and had ice running through his veins. That was obvious, since you can't have success as a closer without those kinds of qualities. Never mind he basically went from being a minorleaguer to the everyday closer overnight (something that is not supposed to be possible, since young guys will obviously piss themselves in those kind of high pressure situations). This guy was a closer's closer!

 

Now, it's clear that Axford has none of those qualities. How could he, since he's pitching scared and timid and without confidence? I mean, you just have to watch the guy pitch... it's obvious!

 

Basically, you guys just make this stuff up as you go or parrot whatever you here the guys on the TV say. Create a narrative to fit the situation, use anecdotes to support it, repeat.

 

Well, weird things obviously happen when humans are involved. Confidence and focus comes and goes for various reasons, and that can affect performance. This doesn't have anything to do with what announcers or the narrative says, it just has to do with my own personal experience.

 

Some people are more sensitive to subtle variations in these things than others--sometimes hypersensitive to the tune of wild speculation about what the player is thinking and worried about based on his facial expressions and body language. Others are completely numb and immune to it all and throw everything in the in the "luck" bin. As usual, it's probably somewhere in between.

[RobDeer 45]

Prediction time, who ends the season with the most saves for the crew?

 

I think Ax will take over again and lead the team in saves. I'm hoping there aren't anymore implosions that lead to this, I just hope it's a smooth transition back to him and Henderson in the 8th.

[Oxy]

Prediction time, who ends the season with the most saves for the crew?

 

I think Ax will take over again and lead the team in saves. I'm hoping there aren't anymore implosions that lead to this, I just hope it's a smooth transition back to him and Henderson in the 8th.

 

If this is the case, I think it will have to happen pretty quickly. If Henderson gets another 2-3 more saves without giving up a run I don't see the switch being made unless Axford is absolutely dominant or Henderson falls apart later on. I'll hope for the best, which is that Henderson has already started his string of 45 consecutive saves and Ax becomes the best 8th inning guy in the league . If that happens, the Brewers WILL make the playoffs.

[HiAndTight]

Relievers are fickle, no reason Axford can't be completely dominating the rest of the season or just awful and out of baseball. I think you pull him from the role and pitch him in low pressure situations for a while until he works it out. I'd give the nod to Big Jim for now considering most of the rest of the bullpen is awful.

 

 

And to follow up on this statement with another rather obvious one, we're talking about 3 outings that account for fewer than 3 innings pitched overall.

 

He came out in his first outing and he looked as dominant as I've seen him save for that one belt high fastball to Dexter Fowler who all the sudden is Justin Upton(who all the sudden is Barry Bonds). And even that was a 96 MPH fastball that was up and on the inner 3rd of the plate.

His off speed stuff was dominant, his fastball command was awesome. And since his fallout, he's now had

 

And in the last two outings, he brought in Axford for an out or two and then tried to bring him back out.

 

Eliminate trying to make him a multiple inning guy, and just hope that he continues to improve.

 

 

And citing last year as an argument that he was terrible is flawed in my opinion. He went through two bad stretches and was dominant for the majority of the season. Of course at that position, when you struggle for a period of time, you're going to end up having an inflated ERA.

 

 

If he pitches like he did opening day the majority of the time, he's going to be a very solid closer as not many guys are going to be catching up to that fastball up in the zone.

 

 

I've always worried that Axford would be the next T-bow, but he's gotten it back after short term struggles.

 

 

As for Olmsted, he also seems to have really turned it around since his blow up inning for Nashville.