The Kyle Lohse Love/Hate Thread

[reillymcshane]

At least we didn't trade for Vernon Well - and pick up $13 million of what's owed the guy.

[Patrick425]

These are, indeed, the most important questions being asked right now. When will he be ready, and why not sign him 3 weeks ago?

 

Maybe he couldn't have been had for $11mil/yr 3 weeks ago. He was initially looking for $15mil/yr.

[chickinbrickin]

I am not a fan of this signing. Yes the young guys didn't do the best this spring, but does Lohse really get this team any more than 2-3 additional wins over anyone?

 

Just smells like another aging SP signing fail to me. Hope he is amazing, but I only see him regressing over the next three years, while eating up a rotation spot that a higher upside young SP should have.

[reillymcshane]

These are, indeed, the most important questions being asked right now. When will he be ready, and why not sign him 3 weeks ago?

 

Maybe he couldn't have been had for $11mil/yr 3 weeks ago. He was initially looking for $15mil/yr.

this is probably the answer. his price finally came into a range the Crew felt was worth it.

[Ennder]

but does Lohse really get this team any more than 2-3 additional wins over anyone?

 

2 or 3 wins is quite a lot for a single pitcher. Gallardo is only worth 3 or 4 a year and none of our guys were replacement level. I had the Brewers as a low to mid 80 win team before, this shifts it to mid 80. Something like 83-87 depending on how much the young guys pan out. The Cardinals have taken a number of hits so I project them as the 3rd place team right now. The Reds have no depth at all at SP so to me if they take a big hit to their SP we are in the divisional race. If we get some luck in 1 run games we are in there too. Otherwise we should be right around the wild cards.

[Mass Haas]

On a bright note, nice to see this forum is still a go-to spot with nearly 300 folks checking in during each of our 15-minute measured intervals...

[3and2Fastball]

I'm going to go right out on a limb and predict that Lohse will be at least as effective over the next 1.5 seasons as Donald Zachary Greinke was in the Brewer uniform, and quite possibly better. Lohse was much better than Greinke last season.

[MVP2110]

On a bright note, nice to see this forum is still a go-to spot with nearly 300 folks checking in during each of our 15-minute measured intervals...

[TooLiveBrew]

This, folks, is what happens when you play for the "window" and have no long-term plan.

 

They could always make up the draft pick loss with Int'l signings....and before they install the worldwide draft.

They could do that with or without the 1st rounder. The two have almost nothing to do with one another.

[Fear The Chorizo]

I understand the reason behind this signing, but still don't have to like it - the Brewers offense on paper is too good this season to waste that production with terrible pitching again. Lohse gives their rotation stability and comes at a price that would be attractive to a contender looking for pitching down the road via trade if one of the next few seasons goes off the rails. I hate that they lose a 1st round pick, but their recent struggles in drafting and developing pitching are the cause for them to need to go the veteran FA starter route once again. I like this deal more than Suppan's or Wolf's, but in a perfect world it never happens because former 1st rounders like Rogers become solid MLB starting pitchers.

[reillymcshane]

Well, if anything, we are a better team for 2013. Are we a playoff team? Maybe, if we can avoid more injuries and some other guys step up.

 

If Lohse can get us 30-32 starts and a sub 4.00 ERA, he'll be a good addition. His age makes you worry, not to mention the simple fact that he's been really inconsistent over his career.

 

He's a much better pitcher than Suppan ever was.

 

The team must really be worried about the rotation with this signing. I guess I can't blame them.

[chewy522]

Initially, this deal looks bad, basically because we have all learned to despise him as a Cardinal. I know we lose a draft pick, but MA and DM realize we have a #1 offense returning (minus Hart for little bit, but also adding a SS that can hit the ball out of the infeld). I don't mind taking shots to win now. The future has so many uncertainties, that you never know whats going to happen. The draft pick coud be a bust, or a superstar. More likely a bust though. What we do know now is we struck gold with Braun. He is in his prime and I don't mind taking a little risk for this year. The money isn't terrible. DM at least waited and saved a few million.

[RockCoCougars]

This is a joke. Honestly if the guy was any good don't you think that one of the big money teams would have signed him long ago? Those who do not learn from their mistakes are doomed to repeat them, and the Brewers are likely the laughingstocks right now.

[TheCrew07]

I hate the Brewers on days today. You cannot build a rotation around signing averagish veterans to 8 figure contracts because you never get over the hill and get 3 1-2 type pitchers, especially when you're giving up 1st round draft picks to do so.

 

Once again another band-aid temporary solution... we've been stuck patching the rotation the same way since 2006 and not surprisingly it's never really gotten fixed.

 

Good thing I'm on vacation this week so I can have a beer in the middle of the day.

[adambr2]

I feel like Melvin/Mark A is a recovering alcoholic who almost made it through the offseason without a drink, and now just fell off the wagon in a big way.

 

The money doesn't bother me nearly as much as the pick. We've just done so many fatm-depleting moves in the last 5 years.

[umphrey]

Jeff Suppan and Randy Wolf didn't work out but it will totally be different with Kyle Lohse

 

Signed, crazy people

[derflotr]

If Peralta is bumped from the rotation because of this I'm going to get pretty upset.

[RobDeer 45]

I will not jump out and make a bold statement about him being great or a bust, I will wait to judge this deal after a year or two. Two things to think about, contracts keep going up, so 11 a year might be similar to 9 a year, 2 years ago (no idea on percentages but just throwing it out there as an example). I don't think this is a contract that will bust us. I also agree with a previous post that if he pitches like he did last year, this year, that's worth half the contract right there, making the last two years 7/8 a year. Not terrible.

 

Now that he's a Brewer, I will cheer for him no matter what. That's the way I roll, good or bad. I may get upset with him if he's bad, or I may get mad at DM/MA but I won't freak out, that's just me. I don't think you can say DM needs to be fired for this prior to him even throwing one pitch.

 

I'm worried about his age, I'm worried about which version we are getting, but I just don't know who he will be until I see it. I think we were in a tough situation at SP. Many people even admitted that they were starting to worry more about the starters as the spring went on. Rogers was struggling and has an injury history, Narv (who many didn't like) is coming off a major injury, Fiers has big question marks, Peralta is an unknown. The hope is some of these guys step up and they still have chances to do so. If all failed, we don't have enough depth to step in. I think we did need to toss another arm in the mix and yes we had to pay more and probably add a year, but I think it was the only way to do it.

 

Let's see what happens. Go Brewers!

[sveumrules]

Can someone please explain the "draft bonus money" and how that works, or point me to someplace that explains it? I've been hearing about this in different articles. Is this new? What happens...do teams get bonus money from MLB to use on draft picks?

 

Essentially each draft pick has a corresponding dollar amount. The better the pick the higher amount. Add up the total of each team's picks and that determines their bonus pool. Teams can exceed the bonus pool, but there are penalties for doing so. By losing the 17th pick the Brewers will lose a significant portion of their pool, but I wouldn't be surprised if a Boras guy projected to go higher mysteriously falls to us.

 

Do you have to use the "bonus pool" money for draft picks? If so, then loosing a pick and loosing the money seems to be a wash (don't really need the money if you don't have the pick).

 

The bonus pool money can be spent however you wish, the amounts aren't locked in with each pick. Last year I believe the 17th slot was allocated 2 million. Say (before signing Lohse obviously) the Brewers found someone willing to sign for 1 million in the first, they could then use the remaining 1 million towards later round picks to maybe sign high ceiling high school players that slipped due to strong college commitments or something like that.

[JohnBriggs12]

If we wanted a legitimate shot to compete this year, you had to make this signing. Our rotation was basically Gallardo and a bunch of #4 starters. That wouldn't get it done.

 

It still is. Lohse hasn't been better than #4 starter the majority of his career. Dumb move. It stinks. They finally unload the last of the bad contracts last August and now our owner gets conned by the same guy who wouldn't counter the Fielder offer. What's irritating is the guys they passed on this off season who would have come a lot cheaper like a Brandon McCarthy. There should be a rule. Owners should not be allowed to watch any spring games in Arizona. More mistakes are made based on actually giving credence for numbers put up there.

[Ennder]

Jeff Suppan and Randy Wolf didn't work out but it will totally be different with Kyle Lohse

 

Signed, crazy people

 

But again Lohse is a better pitcher than either of these guys were when we signed them. You are also fooling yourself if you think Wolf didn't work out. I hate that we signed a 34 year old to 3 years, I hate giving up a pick. I don't disagree with those points at all. But at least be honest about the past.

[brwrsfan]

So who gets knocked out of the rotation here?

[Raw Biz]

I'm not a fan of the signing (mainly because of the draft pick) but people need to stop comparing this to Suppan/Wolf. Lohse was better than Suppan was and Wolf was actually very very good his 1st two years. The only things they have in common are mid 30s pitchers signed as FAs (and the Cardinal connection).

[chadomac]

I agree that the Wolf contract was worth it even with that third year.

[logan82]

Up until this news, I've felt that although I disagree with Melvin's approach, I don't hate him.

 

It's time for Melvin to go. And if this is Attanasio's work, then the we have a much bigger problem on our hands.

 

The stupidity of this move is beyond words for me right now. This, folks, is what happens when you play for the "window" and have no long-term plan.

I really think this might be an Attanasio thing. I really hope it is as simple as firing Doug Melvin.

 

 

If it wasn't for the pick I would dislike this move. Add in losing a pick and I really hate it.