The Kyle Lohse Love/Hate Thread

[homer]

According to Jayson Stark, teams have asked about Lohse, but the price was very high. He didn't name the teams, but someone told him the Brewers were trying to get a lopsided deal.

 

If the team decides now is the time, I have no doubt, there are teams that would trade for Lohse.

 

I have no qualms with the Brewers asking for a lot early on in the process. As the deadline gets closer teams might get desperate - look at Atlanta they need a starter to fill in for Hudson.

[chadomac]

Yeah, I hope they keep the price high and don't budge. I think it'd be great to hang onto him for next year, but if they could get a haul I would understand dealing him.

[splitterpfj]

Honestly, why should the Brewers' asking price be any lower than what the Cubs just got for Matt Garza, or what the Brewers got last year for Greinke? Garza is not a better pitcher than Kyle Lohse, he is not more durable than Kyle Lohse, and he is a free agent in two months. Greinke had a phenomenal year for Kansas City, but otherwise, he's been really good, not amazing, and he was a free agent after 13 starts for the Angels.

 

I do think the Brewers should probably trade Lohse right now, because he's red hot, he's healthy, and teams need him, but the deal should be, a centerpiece prospect, plus two.

 

Look at the Greinke deal, it was one guy who should make it, and two guys who aren't as certain, but have a pretty good shot...a proven pitcher, who's on a roll, is worth that. Yes, he's 34, and yes, he'll be paid for two more years...but don't tell me someone wouldn't sign him this winter for exactly what he's owed over the next two seasons, I'll just point out Ryan Dempster and move on.

 

I think the best thing for the franchise right now would be to trade him for guys who will be here longer than he will be, because it just has to happen. Even so, if they can't get the type of deal they should get for him, I'd keep him, and make him available over the winter.

[monty57]

Honestly, why should the Brewers' asking price be any lower than what the Cubs just got for Matt Garza, or what the Brewers got last year for Greinke? Garza is not a better pitcher than Kyle Lohse, he is not more durable than Kyle Lohse, and he is a free agent in two months. Greinke had a phenomenal year for Kansas City, but otherwise, he's been really good, not amazing, and he was a free agent after 13 starts for the Angels.

 

Exactly. Any difference in what we get for Lohse (if traded) vs what the Cubs got for Garza is the perceived negative value of Lohse's contract. Other than the contract, there is no reason we shouldn't get a Garza type haul. If we receive more than the Cubs got for Garza, then the contract will show to have had positive value in the trade.

[yoshii8]

I agree, and we have plenty of sweeteners if needed w/ Axford, Aoki, Gonzalez, Lohse to include to get a top prospect.

[PrinceEatMeat]

It would make sense to wait until the offseason to trade Gallardo and/or Lohse. They'll be cheaper than most pitchers available on the market, and are probably better than most available pitchers too. More teams will be interested, because it'll be open to all teams and not just buyers. It won't be the end of the world if neither get moved at the deadline. Melvin is being smart by holding out for the deal he wants. I don't think there will be any pitchers of a similar talent level available for the reasonable contracts of 2 years $22M and 2 years $24M this offseason.

[TooLiveBrew]

Kyle Lohse, last ten starts, 5-1, 2.3 ERA, 0.84 WHIP. Not bad for an overpaid, aging mirage.

There was plenty of gloating from posters here last season over Aramis, too. The concern isn't so much the talent as it is the age & cost.

[RockCoCougars]

I'm not going to pretend like I was in favor of the signing, because I was against it. However.... thus far this season Lohse has outpitched two guys that I was clamoring the Brewers to throw big money at (Sabathia and Greinke). I wouldn't give him away in a trade, but I'd look into moving him for the right offer. I think that the same factors that contributed to him staying unsigned so long as a free agent are in play here though, and the market seems pretty soft for a guy throwing as well as he has.

[sveumrules]

We are now almost half way through the Lohse contract. He was our best picher last year in a season derailed by injury. He is our best best pitcher this year on what is currently a first place team.

 

Are there any here who still feel the 17th pick in a Bruce Seid helmed draft was too steep a price to pay for his services?

[chadomac]

He's been outstanding. I wasn't a big fan of the acquisition, but I have completely changed my tune. It seems like he's a great clubhouse presence/mentor to the younger guys as well as producing on the field.

[logan82]

The pick was to much to give up.

[homer]

If the Brewers get to the playoffs it absolutely was worth it.

 

(93 pitch complete game today. That's insane in this day and age)

[DuWayne Steurer]

If the Brewers get to the playoffs it absolutely was worth it.

 

(93 pitch complete game today. That's insane in this day and age)

 

Very Greg Maddux-like.

[splitterpfj]

Would I have traded one high upside kid in Low-A for Kyle Lohse prior to last season?

 

We have no idea who the Brewers would have taken, or the impact that player would, or would not, have eventually made, so going with, "what you know"...the move has absolutely worked to this point.

[DocLuna7]

I think that if Lohse continues to pitch like this the remainder of this season, than the deal was definitely worth it. Even if he slips up a bit next year, to get one solid year and one outstanding year out of a guy who also seems to bring a lot to the table in the clubhouse in a hopefully playoff season is a deal I'd make every time. To me, bottom line is that if the Brewers do keep up the winning and make the playoffs this year, you want Kyle Lohse to take the hill in the post-season.

[danzig6767]

It's a pleasure watching Lohse pitch compared to someone like say Gallardo. Lohse just throws a ton of strikes and with command, thus consistently being ahead or even in the count vs others who nibble nibble nibble and are regularly at around 80 pitches or more in just the 5th inning.

[BallFour]

When we signed Lohse I thought it was same old signings like Wolf and Suppan and we had to give up a 1st rounder to boot. But I was dead wrong. Guy is efficient as they come and I am one to not agree with short term moves in the offseason. He will be our game 1 starter if we make the playoffs and its not by default either he will have earned it if he keeps it up.

[KCBrewerfan34]

I was a huge proponent of this signing and I believe Lohse is our best big game pitcher and I would pick him from the 5 to start a game 163 for example.

 

Now lets nail this 1st rounder this week!!!

[Fear The Chorizo]

The pick was to much to give up.

 

IMO too early to say either way definitively. Let's see how the next 1.5 years play out...if Lohse is a big part of the Brewers making the postseason this year, and becomes part of a deadline trade that lands a projectable prospect next season, then signing Lohse was absolutely worth a mid-1st round pick.

[JohnBriggs12]

Even when he's a little off, he usually keeps the team in the game. When he's on it's a thing of beauty. He's convinced me.

[MDBrew]

I feel that as a big game pitcher he is who we want out on the mound. If he can stay consistent he will be the key to our pitching staff this year. I think his ability to go deep in games saving our bullpen is the most valuable part.

[SoCal Brew Crew Fan]

He's been our best pitcher for the last 1 1/3 seasons. He should get the game one start in the playoffs if they make it. Incredibly efficient and effective pitcher.

 

The drawback has always been the draft pick they gave up...a high price considering the state of their farm system. I figure Wang is the other half of the deal to make up for that. When I just consider carrying him the price they had to pay for Lohse, it all seems to balance out in my head.

[SoupTown]

I just repeat my earlier thoughts: giving up your first round pick is the new moneyball (market inefficiency). You hope a first rounder can be a very good MLB player. Give that up and you get a for sure very good MLB player at a couple mill a year less than market value

 

I am sure this will be changed in the next player agreement

 

The most favorable thing would be to sign two or three of these guys in a year. I don't know all the QO guys this year or last. But since you only have one first rounder buying the QO guys in bulk is the bargain

 

To counter that loss of first rounders you need to draft more high risk in later rounds or projectable high schoolers. To be honest the Crew have been more upside drafting the last two years. So I agree with their recent approach in FA and draft

[danzig6767]

When we signed Lohse I thought it was same old signings like Wolf and Suppan and we had to give up a 1st rounder to boot.

When Lohse was first signed, my biggest issue by far was giving up the first round pick.

 

That said, what i didn't get was why so many here immediately went to comparing the signing to one like Suppan. Lohse was clearly a better and more skilled pitcher. Suppan never put together the type of back to back years which Lohse had done with the Cardinals. Suppan always allowed a ton of baserunners, he got paid by us after Attanasio got blinded by that success in the playoffs Suppan had in 2006 and i also think Attanasio was itching to make a signing saying the Brewers were finally a player nationally, no longer just a place which players badly wanted to leave from. Hence a big mistake.

 

Lohse on the other hand those last two years in St Louis not only posted ERA totals of 3.39/2.86, his WHIP numbers were a very good 1.168/1.090, unlike all of the baserunners Suppan would allow even when his ERA numbers were decent. For example, in his best year as a Cardinal where Suppan had a 3.57 ERA, his WHIP was still a pretty ugly 1.386 with lots of unimpressive secondary numbers overall.

[BallFour]

When Lohse was first signed, my biggest issue by far was giving up the first round pick.

 

That said, what i didn't get was why so many here immediately went to comparing the signing to one like Suppan. Lohse was clearly a better and more skilled pitcher. Suppan never put together the type of back to back years which Lohse had done with the Cardinals. Suppan always allowed a ton of baserunners, he got paid by us after Attanasio got blinded by that success in the playoffs Suppan had in 2006 and i also think Attanasio was itching to make a signing saying the Brewers were finally a player nationally, no longer just a place which players badly wanted to leave from. Hence a big mistake.

 

Lohse on the other hand those last two years in St Louis not only posted ERA totals of 3.39/2.86, his WHIP numbers were a very good 1.168/1.090, unlike all of the baserunners Suppan would allow even when his ERA numbers were decent. For example, in his best year as a Cardinal where Suppan had a 3.57 ERA, his WHIP was still a pretty ugly 1.386 with lots of unimpressive secondary numbers overall.

 

Mostly for me it was his struggles earlier in his career and thinking it was the Cardinal Dave Duncan fluke like Suppan. But once I got a chance to look at his peripherals for 11 and 12, a lot of posters here swayed me in the opinion of liking the signing minus giving up the draft pick. I realized he was a lot better signing than Suppan and Wolf. I still didn't like giving up the first round pick because I didn't feel we were a contending team and our farm system was and still is lacking elite impact talent.