The Kyle Lohse Love/Hate Thread

[splitterpfj]

Mr Lohse has definitely been a bright spot, in a miserable season, and the team spent more than they have in a long time on international players, so the lost draft pick may not be a big deal in the long run.

 

Go Sooper!

[logan82]

Yeah Loshe was definitely the missing piece this year.

[SoupTown]

Lohse actually was the missing piece. But in a puzzle of about 20 pieces only about three or four of them actually showed up. Don't blame the pieces that showed up. Blame the dozen+ that went missing.

[logan82]

Lohse really had a good chance to push us to 85 wins if everything went right.

[brewcrewdue80]

Lohse really had a good chance to push us to 85 wins if everything went right.

 

He's been better than anticipated and 85wins+ seemed reasonable until the veteran position players of this team decided to take a crapper on the injuries(Weeks slump). Last season's 2,3,4,5 hitters resulting in minimal positive impact for the record thus far.

 

Go ahead remove every ML baseball team 2,3,4,5 hitters and tell me what their record would be? Could the team have found 9 more wins with a Healthy Braun,Ramirez, and Hart? With a non slumped Weeks to begin the season? 9 wins would have us at .500 and easily in range for 85wins. Then that's w/o Gallardo's decline and the never ending who's pitching in our #4,5 spots this year?

 

You do realize the club played Yuni and Alex Gonzalez in place of Hart/ARam? BRef has Yuni as -18 runs as a batter Gonzalez was worth -13 runs as a batter. Based on his last 5 seasons ARam would be worth about 11Runs with the bat vs. the 3 due to the knees. And Corey would have been worth about 10runs with the bat.

 

So total the projection comes out to approximately 49 runs differential we've gotten by not having Hart/ARam vs. just the duo of Yuni/AGonz.

 

Now, I don't blame Yuni/AGonz for their complete failure at baseball, I blame Melvin for accepting those two as legit replacements for Hart/ARam while signing Lohse.

I mean quite frankly when you look at it, That should be why Melvin is fired before this season finishes. Just that revelation.

You are in the middle of Spring Training nearing the end, and decide, knowing Aramis and Corey are injured to start the season, Corey out at least a month in to it, to go and sign Lohse costing the draft pick, followed by the next day signing Yuni to be your backup 3b to ARam? You then proceed to move Alex Gonzalez from being a lousy on bad knee SS over to 1b? and head in to the season comfortable with that?

 

Absolute train wreck of decisions! How, just how many 1b were sent to waivers after Yuni's signing that we never picked up on?

We Still have Yuni!

 

Anyway, off my tangent, you see 18 games under .500 complete failure, and I see, 9-10 games the team could likely easily have won if their projected lineup were in place for this season. Which puts us at .500 then. We Batted Yuni Cleanup! Cleanup! ARGGGHHH@!

[logan82]

I am well aware of how bad our 1B situation has been as are most other posters here.Sure if you completely ignore Gomez and Segura playing way over any reasonable expectations you can just add all that up. We were more than likely a low 80 win team and mid 80's with Lohse if everything went right. It was a bad signing at the time and looks downright ugly now.

 

Also, expecting Ramirez to play a full season given his age and injury history was wishful thinking.

[homer]

I don't think it's ugly at all unless the draft pick turns out to be studly. And even then they could trade him for prospects that might end up being better than the missed draft pick.

 

I liken it to the Cubs signing Garza. At the time everyone was wondering what the heck they were doing (and it was the previous regime but still). Now they have a great trading chip to get them some very solid prospects. I don't see the downside.

[RobertR]

Since Lohse is performing well and theoretically flippable for prospects, I just don't see the issue with the signing at this point. It's not like he's blocking anyone and the Brewers need someone to pickup a bunch of innings.

 

Given that it's a fairly typical contract it's not crippling financially. And if the Brewers decide to flip him, they may end up with more talent than they would have gotten out of the draft pick.

 

It's hardly ever a bad thing to sign a guy that performs at or above expectations. Lohse has done that. Just like Gonzalez, Gorzelanny, and KRod. Yeah, the Brewers didn't have to give up a draft pick, but Lohse has more trade value than your average reliever too.

 

From my perspective, it's a wash to a plus long term at this point as Lohse appears to have good trade value.

[TigerUppercut]

It's hardly ever a bad thing to sign a guy that performs at or above expectations. Lohse has done that. Just like Gonzalez, Gorzelanny, and KRod. Yeah, the Brewers didn't have to give up a draft pick, but Lohse has more trade value than your average reliever too.

 

From my perspective, it's a wash to a plus long term at this point as Lohse appears to have good trade value.

 

The funny thing is, who's to say they wouldn't have drafted Devin Williams at #19 anyway? Per the draft special on FSN, it was pretty clear they valued him that high. I guess we'll have to monitor picks in that general area in the long run to see what we "missed out" on.

[logan82]

If he gets traded. They need to trade him to make the signing worth while.

 

I don't think Garza is a good comparison. He is half a decade younger than Lohse.

[splitterpfj]

Garza is also only signed for five fortnights, and he's missed significant time in each of the last two seasons while Lohse has pitched well.

 

I know which guy I'd want, and I can't imagine I'm the only one, I don't think the Brewers have made Lohse available.

[homer]

If he gets traded. They need to trade him to make the signing worth while.

 

 

Well yeah now that the team is out of it.

[jerichoholicninja]

I may have been wrong about how Lohse would perform but I still don't like the signing. If, and that's a big if, Doug trades him the signing was worth it. Otherwise it was a waste of a draft pick for 3 pointless years.

[Thurston Fluff]

That assumes we won't be competitive for the next three years. Even if we are I think having a good veteran pitcher to help the young pitchers along has a decent amount of value in and of itself.

[danzig6767]

I am well aware of how bad our 1B situation has been as are most other posters here.Sure if you completely ignore Gomez and Segura playing way over any reasonable expectations you can just add all that up. We were more than likely a low 80 win team and mid 80's with Lohse if everything went right. It was a bad signing at the time and looks downright ugly now.

 

Also, expecting Ramirez to play a full season given his age and injury history was wishful thinking.

 

Age certainly could be a concern, but you may be overstating his injury history a little?

 

149

149

124

82

149

132

157

123

145

 

Including this year. that was the last 10 seasons for Ramirez. That's not exactly a track record of a player constantly missing a ton of games and the two previous seasons he played 149 games in each. Most players are going to miss a differing number of games from year to year, an iron man type like say Fielder who almost never misses a game is more the rarity than the norm.

 

So while i certainly did expect Aramis to miss some games this year, i see no reason though that we should have expected him to miss so many games either. Who knows what would have happened had he stayed on first on that hit instead of going for a double, and in turn jamming his leg on a bad slide. No question that in general aging players tend to get injured more than younger players, but there also can be some simple luck factor in every injury.

[danzig6767]

If he gets traded. They need to trade him to make the signing worth while.

 

Well yeah now that the team is out of it.

 

It would be interesting to know if Attanasio would even let Melvin trade Lohse if that was something Doug preferred doing, assuming there were offers of value?

 

Between comments made after the signing about how Attanasio was the one doing the negotiating with Boras and then a recent interview by Mark where he explained why he decided to sign Lohse, it seems pretty clear that he was the driving force behind the deal getting done.

 

Well, with Lohse having another good year and Attanasio having stated multiple times that it's important to him for the team to be competitive every year, i wouldn't be surprised at all if he'd tell Doug to keep Lohse unless blown away by an offer.

[logan82]

We shouldn't expect a guy in his mid thirties who hobbled around a good part of last year with leg issues to miss time this year?

[502 to Right]

What happens with Lohse and Yo will tell us whether the Brewers intend to make a playoff push next year. I think the Brewers will keep both, ARam and resign Hart and go for it.

[homer]

What happens with Lohse and Yo will tell us whether the Brewers intend to make a playoff push next year. I think the Brewers will keep both, ARam and resign Hart and go for it.

 

 

I think "going for it" will depend on the Braun situation.

[Roderick]

It's hardly ever a bad thing to sign a guy that performs at or above expectations. Lohse has done that. Just like Gonzalez, Gorzelanny, and KRod. Yeah, the Brewers didn't have to give up a draft pick, but Lohse has more trade value than your average reliever too.

 

From my perspective, it's a wash to a plus long term at this point as Lohse appears to have good trade value.

 

The funny thing is, who's to say they wouldn't have drafted Devin Williams at #19 anyway? Per the draft special on FSN, it was pretty clear they valued him that high. I guess we'll have to monitor picks in that general area in the long run to see what we "missed out" on.

 

As was stated earlier, if the Brewers had their first round draft pick, what are the chances they would have spent as much on the international signings? I think you have to look with a wide focus, and it seems to me that the Brewers have done well so far with the signing, and if he ends up being traded away for anything remote equivalent to a 1st round pick, then they will have done very well. They had him in case he was what was needed to push them over the top, the rest of the team didn't cooperate.

[splitterpfj]

Kyle Lohse, last ten starts, 5-1, 2.3 ERA, 0.84 WHIP. Not bad for an overpaid, aging mirage.

[PrinceEatMeat]

Kyle Lohse, last ten starts, 5-1, 2.3 ERA, 0.84 WHIP. Not bad for an overpaid, aging mirage.

 

This is why he should be traded now, because he may actually end up being overpaid and aging over the next 2 years. Gotta sell high if possible. Problem is that suitors are needed, and there's been no indication of that yet.

[pitchleague]

Perhaps with Tim Hudson going down the Braves will be interested.

[danzig6767]

Kyle Lohse, last ten starts, 5-1, 2.3 ERA, 0.84 WHIP. Not bad for an overpaid, aging mirage.

 

This is why he should be traded now, because he may actually end up being overpaid and aging over the next 2 years. Gotta sell high if possible. Problem is that suitors are needed, and there's been no indication of that yet.

 

1. We don't even know yet if Attanasio is for allowing Melvin to shop Lohse.

 

2. While the many media sources out there like to spread rumors each year as the trade deadline nears claiming that they know X player is being discussed with X number of teams, often those media sources are either just guessing based on what seems like a good fit, being fed misinformation for a variety of reasons, and/or had no clue ahead of time when a player ends up being traded to whatever team.

 

3. Even if Lohse or Gallardo aren't traded at the deadline, either one could easily end up being traded during the offseason instead. Both will have two years left on their deals at not huge money, so for teams looking to add a starter that want to avoid handing out a big money long term contract in free agency, they could prefer trading for a Lohse or Gallardo.

[splitterpfj]

According to Jayson Stark, teams have asked about Lohse, but the price was very high. He didn't name the teams, but someone told him the Brewers were trying to get a lopsided deal.

 

If the team decides now is the time, I have no doubt, there are teams that would trade for Lohse.