The Kyle Lohse Love/Hate Thread

[Ennder]

He could revert back for whatever reason and the last couple years could be a fluke. Suppan still resembled Lohse more than any other pitcher in history for three years.

 

He added a pitch which is his best and most used pitch. He can't really revert back unless he stops throwing the pitch. The risk with him is more just his age, not that the past two seasons are complete flukes. (Mind you that they were in a pitchers park with a decent defense behind him so the ERA probably are slightly flukey, just not complete.)

[splitterpfj]

Basically, before Lohse completely changed the way he pitches, he pitched like guys who didn't pitch as well has he has pitched since he completely changed the way he pitches.

 

The deal is done, so there's plenty of time for all of us to find out if that holds true, but that's where Lohse is at right now. Dating back to the start of the 2011 season, Lohse has made 66 starts, with the following stats:

 

ERA - 3.09, WHIP - 1.13, HR/9 - 0.77, BB/9 - 1.78, K/9 - 5.73, K/BB 3.21

 

Do I expect Lohse to do that throughout his deal with the Brewers - no, I don't. I haven't looked it up, but do I believe Suppan or Looper ever had a run like that in their careers? No, I don't.

 

For the rest of Lohse's time with the Brewers, I've decided to refer to him as "Sooper."

 

They signed him, and the draft pick is gone..."Let's Go Soo-per!"

[RobDeer 45]

I apologize, I have not read all the posts in this thread but just wanted to chime in after a few games. I think what having Lohse on the team has done is given us a veteran leader presence, which I'm not sure we have on the staff. It also gives us some stability and will allow us to bring up youth around him. Not in the traditional sense where you have an ace, and you build off of him, but more a middle rotation guy that is consistent. Because we have so many unknowns on our staff, having Lohse there, really helps keep things calm. It let's us do things like bring up Burgos and if he doesn't work, bring up the next young guy. I believe it's easier to do this with out so much panic, because we have more stability from a guy like Lohse.

 

Hopefully this makes some sense, but I just think Lohse really buys us more time to figure out which young pitchers are MLB ready without the panic.

[brewmann04]

I have said since day one this was a solid signing.

[monty57]

I have said since day one this was a solid signing.

 

And I sincerely hope you are still saying that on day 1,095 when the contract expires.

[danzig6767]

I have said since day one this was a solid signing.

 

And I sincerely hope you are still saying that on day 1,095 when the contract expires.

 

Hey, there is risk in any signing not working out as hoped for, but that risk is more limited when talking about the years and dollars which Lohse got. Thus, if hypothetically Lohse struggles in year three, you've really only only lost out on about 10 million bucks.

 

The signings who should really scare fans of their teams are guys like Pujols, Votto, Mauer, Hamilton, Fielder, Adrian Gonzalez, C. Crawford, Werth, etc and a number of good pitchers who have been signing 5-6 year extensions at huge dollars.

 

All of those position players besides Hamilton signed deals ranging from 7-10 years long. Hell, Albert already looks in decline and has nine years left on his contract. The Cardinals sadly dodged a major bullet there. The Reds will be paying Votto 25 million per from 2018-2023. My money is on that ending up a disaster. Same with some of those recent signings of starting pitchers.

 

Unless Lohse blows out his elbow next week or really surprises me by pitching more like Suppan from his next start on, his signing would be at worst frustrating, not the trainwreck many of these huge money signings will likely end up being.

[HiAndTight]

Add me to those who hated the deal more because of the loss of draft pick than because of Lohse himself. Sure I don't think Lohse will repeat his past 2 years but I also don't see him as a 5+ ERA guy either. He's a pretty decent pitcher. And he would most likely help this year and probably next. But I didn't see him as the missing link either in being a WS contender so I thought the draft pick was more valuable. But I will definitely cheer for him and enjoy watching him pitch.

 

 

Same here, it was the pool money, the pick that really hurt.

 

But Lohse has come in and pitched exceptionally well. He does have a pretty substantial history of pitching well to go off of now.

 

And you can never tell what that "final piece," is going to be in building a WS winner. Year after year teams become more than the sum of their parts. Who's to say Gallardo won't have his best year this year as he's in the prime of his career, and that we won't have that one player who busts out that we really didn't expect to coming into the season. Peralta for example could just as easily put together a run like he did last year as he seems like a slow starter. Get Aram, Hart back, the BP has looked much better and there are definitely options in the minors in Hellweg, Thornburg, Nelson, Burgos and others where it's hardly beyond the scope that we could end up as an 87 win team, 85 win team.

 

Or like the Cardinals who won the WS with what..83 wins?

 

 

ON the flip side of that, if Lohse continues to pitch as well as he has and shows the type of command that he had, those teams that were interested, but didn't want to go 5 years 75 million or didn't want to give up the draft pick may find themselves in a position where they're contending and they lose a starting pitcher, or just need to add one and we end up getting more in return for him than we likely would have gotten from the 17th pick.

 

 

You're looking at a pitcher that since the start of 2011 has a record of 30-11;3.09 ERA, 1.16 WHIP, as well as a 3.30 BB/K ratio.

 

Clearly a guy who if not for the draft pick compensation would have easily eclipsed 3/33. In fact would have likely gotten 15 over 4-5 years.

[HiAndTight]

I can't believe there is one single fan of Milwaukee with zero worry subconsciously of a Braun Suspension. Lifetime is obviously an overstatement, but 100 games seems forthcoming if MLB gets their way. I just don't like the future of this team beyond 2014.

 

I don't worry about it even a tiny bit, there is no way they can suspend him without him failing a test. This is such a complete non issue. The players union is too strong for you to spend even a second worrying about this. At worst MLB could put them in a legal battle for 5 or so years. If he does fail a test it would be 50 games too not 100.

 

 

 

Yeah, I'm at a completely loss where this suspension talk is coming from in the first place, much less the nonsense of 100 games.

 

Just kinda snatched out of the air like a balloon? It's ridiculous.

[danzig6767]

Add me to those who hated the deal more because of the loss of draft pick than because of Lohse himself. Sure I don't think Lohse will repeat his past 2 years but I also don't see him as a 5+ ERA guy either. He's a pretty decent pitcher. And he would most likely help this year and probably next. But I didn't see him as the missing link either in being a WS contender so I thought the draft pick was more valuable. But I will definitely cheer for him and enjoy watching him pitch.

 

You're looking at a pitcher that since the start of 2011 has a record of 30-11;3.09 ERA, 1.16 WHIP, as well as a 3.30 BB/K ratio.

 

Clearly a guy who if not for the draft pick compensation would have easily eclipsed 3/33. In fact would have likely gotten 15 over 4-5 years.

 

Lohse likely could have gotten more than 3/33 if not for the draft pick issue, but i think that's a stretch to say 4/60 or 5/75. Teams value their first round picks, but not to the tune of 30-40 million dollars.

 

Maybe something like 3/40 or 4/50 million would have been possible without the draft pick issue, but don't see 60-75 million given his age and some skepticism which had to be out there as to whether Lohse could sustain high quality results over an extended number of seasons.

[monty57]

Danzig, I wholeheartedly agree with you that on the surface there is a lot more risk in the mega-deals going out to guys like Pujols than there is on a three-year deal. Unfortunately for the Brewers, the TV deal the Angels have probably means there is less relative risk to the Angels guaranteeing $200MM than there is the Brewers guaranteeing $30MM, as both equate to roughly one full year of the team's TV revenue. That is a big reason I don't think the Brewers can sustain a strategy based on getting their key players through free agency (or extending to eight-figure salaries), and why it hurts the Brewers more to lose a draft pick than it would hurt a big money team.

 

But even moreso than the draft pick, my biggest concern over Lohse is simply that very few starting pitchers even make it to Lohse's current age. Almost none make it to 36, and many of those who do are either on path to a Hall of Fame career, throw left handed, or throw a knuckleball... Lohse is none of these.

 

Giving a guy a three-year deal at 29 is a whole lot different than giving a guy a three-year deal at 34. As I said, I think the Brewers have to hope Lohse defies nature in order to make to contract worth it.

[RockCoCougars]

So far, so good on Lohse. I don't expect him to continue pitching as well as he has in the first three starts (only one BB so far!), but I will say that he looks less hittable than either Suppan or Wolf.

[Ennder]

I can't imagine anyone who has actually watched Lohse pitch this year that can compare him to Suppan or Looper or even Wolf who was good for us. He is just so much better than those guys that it is a bad comparison at this point.

[tigerbrew]

Lohse looks like a very good signing so far, he also looks like a very good team mate. Have to commend MA for this signing.

[fondybrewfan]

I am assuming the dislocated pinky on his left hand shouldn't be a big deal?

[Invader3K]

I am assuming the dislocated pinky on his left hand shouldn't be a big deal?

 

http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/204223871.html

 

Sounds like he'll make his next start.

[RobDeer 45]

GAMER!!

 

I'm really hoping he'll be fine. I guess they'll have to see how it reacts the day or two after, swelling, pain, etc, but I'm glad that he's positive about it.

 

I read an article the other day (not sure if it's been mentioned yet?) about how he's fitting in really well with the team. That he's been a great teammate, offering good advice to the pitchers, and messing with the young guys, keeping them on their toes. I like to see stuff like that.

 

I hope he's able to make this next start. He's been really good for us so far.

[homer]

Can someone describe Lohse pitching style to me? Is he command pitcher? Ground ball pitcher? I'm just wondering how similar he is/is not to Burgos. If he's a guy that can command a number of pitches then maybe he can help out Hiram a bit having been there done that.

[JohnBriggs12]

So far Lohse has been as good as advertised. I was mostly concerned with year 3, and the lost draft pick, to the hated Cardinals to boot. I figured the Brewers could have traded for a rental later in the season, but with all the offensive injuries, it certainly helps to have him now. Of course, it's no coincidence that the bullpen's been a lot better during this streak and that was going to be a determining factor in success of this team regardless of who was starting.

[danzig6767]

Can someone describe Lohse pitching style to me? Is he command pitcher?

Yes

 

Throws lots of strikes. Generally keeps his 90-91mph four and two seam fastballs on the corners so hitters just don't square up on the ball all that often. Has a plus changeup.

 

I'm just wondering how similar he is/is not to Burgos. If he's a guy that can command a number of pitches then maybe he can help out Hiram a bit having been there done that.

When i was watching Burgos pitch the other day, one thought which came to my mind was he reminded me somewhat of Lohse.

[RightFieldCoder]

So far Lohse has been as good as advertised. I was mostly concerned with year 3, and the lost draft pick, to the hated Cardinals to boot. I figured the Brewers could have traded for a rental later in the season, but with all the offensive injuries, it certainly helps to have him now. Of course, it's no coincidence that the bullpen's been a lot better during this streak and that was going to be a determining factor in success of this team regardless of who was starting.

The Cardinals were getting that pick as long they didn't sign him. We just lost a pick.

[brewtank34]

I find it sickening that we are always facing up against other teams best pitchers...but the other teams laugh at us when they have to face our best pitchers. I know we're not going to be this bad all season long. We're too good a team to not get on another hot streak, but this team is no where near a playoff team. Not going to happen. I'm betting they wish they had that Lohse money and draft pick back. Way to screw that one up Mark A! Let your GM do what he's being paid to do!

[dlk9s]

the other teams laugh at us when they have to face our best pitchers.

http://i.imgur.com/uyqfpYL.gif

[PrinceFielderx1]

I find it sickening that we are always facing up against other teams best pitchers...but the other teams laugh at us when they have to face our best pitchers. I know we're not going to be this bad all season long. We're too good a team to not get on another hot streak, but this team is no where near a playoff team. Not going to happen. I'm betting they wish they had that Lohse money and draft pick back. Way to screw that one up Mark A! Let your GM do what he's being paid to do!

 

and go into the season with hands down the worst starting pitching staff in the history of the Major Leagues? The Brewers SP staff is god awful right now, but imagine what it would be like without Lohse. The fact that the Brewers have both Lohse and Gallardo gives them the ability to build around them and the really good offense that they currently have, and saves the team from having to go through a 5-10 year complete rebuild. I as a Brewers fans don't want to wait that long for a competitive team.

 

The Lohse signing was a really good signing by not Doug Melvin, but by Mark A. If they need to shed salary in the next couple years, then there are plenty of other areas to do that; especially with the Hart/Weeks contracts almost up. That's 21 million over the next 2 years off the books, and if you include getting rid of Axford that's 5 million more (26 million).

 

If the Brewers get rid of Weeks and Axford, and can somehow trade for another SP of Lohse's ability and a solid number 3/4 SP, this team will be right back in business. The Brewers might need to get creative to acquire those SP's, but if they do they will be right in the think of contention. Maybe not this season, but as soon as next.

[TooLiveBrew]

Without Loshe, this team might have won like one or two fewer games so far, and have a first-round pick in the 2013 draft. That would be awful.

[PrinceFielderx1]

Without Loshe, this team might have won like one or two fewer games so far, and have a first-round pick in the 2013 draft. That would be awful.

 

Lohse has been the best SP we have this season and can actually get past 6IP. I'd say Lohse is better than Gallardo, and by the end of this season he could very well be the best SP we have on the team, and established himself as our ace or co-ace, and you are honestly going to say it doesn't matter that we have him on our team?

 

Not to mention should we lose him we'd have to find 2 more just like him instead of just 1 to field a competitive team with a depleted farm system.

 

Lohse over this entire season will by that time have had such a positive chain reaction effect on our pitching staff that his 11 million would be well worth it and better than a 1st round pick that would have a 50% chance of working out, or more like a 40% chance knowing our inability to draft well lately, and develop. Top prospects can always be traded for, and lord knows we will have offense to trade.