Lineup

[JohnBriggs12]

I agree that none of the options are good but why not give a younger player a chance to possibly surprise? Your 40 year old backup SS is not going to surprise you in any way.

 

Sean Halton has never been on their radar, but he really had a pretty solid spring following a decent year at AAA. Granted they'd have had to open a 40 man slot for him, but really why not give a guy like that a shot for a month and maybe you'll discover something? They did bring him along for the exhibitions in Miller Park so they must have seen something there. He sure fits the 1B mold a lot better than Gonzalez.

[PrinceFielderx1]

I'd switch Gomez and Gonzalez in the line-up.

[JohnBriggs12]

No other team in baseball wanted a 36 year old Gonzalez coming off of ACL surgery that caused him to miss most of last year. There were teams out there looking for SS too. But because he had a good offensive month in a Brewer uniform prior to the injury, somehow the Brewers think he's capable not only of filling in at a defensive position, but also at a prime offensive position that he's heretofore never played and batting in the middle of the order? Incredible.

[chadomac]

Yeah, last night's game made me realize how horrible of a decision Gonzalez batting ahead of Gomez and Segura is. He should be in the 8 spot. He's the weakest hitter in the lineup.

[PrinceEatMeat]

Yeah, I wonder how many 0-4 games it'll take until RRR realizes that Gonzalez shouldn't be hitting 6th. Probably far more than we all would like.

[MJLiverock]

I've hated the idea of Gonzalez at 1B since it was announced he would be the replacement for Gamel and Hart. I got into a little Twitter spat with Hardricourt over it since he tried to defend him as "having a little pop" so he wouldn't be bad at 1B.

 

That said, what is RR supposed to do at this point? Melvin did nothing to address the issue in spring training by brining in any of the experienced 1B that were floating around for next to nothing. There isn't even really a back up at the MLB level at this point to argue as someone who should be playing 1B. Maldanado is inexperienced and the back up catcher and despite a great year at the plate last year leaves me skeptical that his bat can play at 1B. Davis hated it and barely played it and was by all accounts not good at it. Ramirez has never played it at the MLB level. For some reason Melvin thought another back up infielder like YB was the answer instead of finding a 1B and letting Gonzalez be the back up infielder.

 

As far as where Gonzalez bats I doubt it really matters a whole lot if he bats 6th, or 7th or 8th for month.

 

I can't really fault the manager in this situation his hands are pretty tied by the construction of the roster.

[monty57]

I've hated the idea of Gonzalez at 1B since it was announced he would be the replacement for Gamel and Hart. I got into a little Twitter spat with Hardricourt over it since he tried to defend him as "having a little pop" so he wouldn't be bad at 1B.

 

That said, what is RR supposed to do at this point? Melvin did nothing to address the issue in spring training by brining in any of the experienced 1B that were floating around for next to nothing. There isn't even really a back up at the MLB level at this point to argue as someone who should be playing 1B. Maldanado is inexperienced and the back up catcher and despite a great year at the plate last year leaves me skeptical that his bat can play at 1B. Davis hated it and barely played it and was by all accounts not good at it. Ramirez has never played it at the MLB level. For some reason Melvin thought another back up infielder like YB was the answer instead of finding a 1B and letting Gonzalez be the back up infielder.

 

As far as where Gonzalez bats I doubt it really matters a whole lot if he bats 6th, or 7th or 8th for month.

 

I can't really fault the manager in this situation his hands are pretty tied by the construction of the roster.

 

The question is how much input does Roenicke have? I know it is Melvin's job to get the players, but I think he leans heavily on Roenicke's opinion. If Roenicke said he didn't think Gonzalez was an answer, Melvin probably would've found a different fix.

 

Of course, it would've been easy to solve by either letting 24-year-old (not young) Hunter Morris play, or if for some reason his development would be shattered by jumping from AA to the Majors, then let Sean Halton play. Both of them are more offensively talented than Gonzalez. Either one would've had to be added to the 40-man, but that would've been easily remedied by not adding Yuni to the 40 man. No good player would sign knowing that Hart would play everyday once he returns, so why not go with one of the two MLB ready 1B you have.

 

I agree that Gonzalez's spot in the lineup is less important than the fact that he is actually in the lineup every day. Watch, though, as they continually defend his starting job by saying that his defense more than makes up for his lack of offense. But, since he is our starter, I'd just as soon see him get as few PAs as possible, so I'd bat him 8th, which would also free Segura up to use his speed on the bases.

[MJLiverock]

Not aimed at you specifically Monty but why is every roster decision that people disagree with pushed off of Melvin and onto RR or Attanasio? Brewers sign controversial players and immediately someone says it was Attanasio meddling, even without a shred of evidence. People don't like the 25 or 40 man roster (neither Morris nor Halton on the 40 man as you acknowledge) and it is because RR made the decision or pushed Melvin on when to add guys from the minors to the 40 man? I seriously doubt RR made Melvin sign YB or Attanasio called that shot. Melvin is the GM and until I hear from the team that Attanasio or RR made a signing or roster decision happen against Melvin's wishes I'll assume Melvin is doing the job of GM and building the roster.

[PrinceEatMeat]

Gonzalez is hitting 5th tonight, lol.

[logan82]

Not aimed at you specifically Monty but why is every roster decision that people disagree with pushed off of Melvin and onto RR or Attanasio? Brewers sign controversial players and immediately someone says it was Attanasio meddling, even without a shred of evidence. People don't like the 25 or 40 man roster (neither Morris nor Halton on the 40 man as you acknowledge) and it is because RR made the decision or pushed Melvin on when to add guys from the minors to the 40 man? I seriously doubt RR made Melvin sign YB or Attanasio called that shot. Melvin is the GM and until I hear from the team that Attanasio or RR made a signing or roster decision happen against Melvin's wishes I'll assume Melvin is doing the job of GM and building the roster.

Which moves are you referring to? There is plenty of evidence that Lohse had quite a bit of AA meddling and Yuni is squarely on Melvin's shoulders. Other than that, we really have not made any moves other than cutting players in camp and that would fall squarely on the manager.

[monty57]

Not aimed at you specifically Monty but why is every roster decision that people disagree with pushed off of Melvin and onto RR or Attanasio? Brewers sign controversial players and immediately someone says it was Attanasio meddling, even without a shred of evidence. People don't like the 25 or 40 man roster (neither Morris nor Halton on the 40 man as you acknowledge) and it is because RR made the decision or pushed Melvin on when to add guys from the minors to the 40 man? I seriously doubt RR made Melvin sign YB or Attanasio called that shot. Melvin is the GM and until I hear from the team that Attanasio or RR made a signing or roster decision happen against Melvin's wishes I'll assume Melvin is doing the job of GM and building the roster.

 

I'm not trying to take the heat off of Melvin, as it is ultimately his responsibility. From interviews and such, it sounds to me like Melvin puts a lot of faith in Roenicke's opinion on the 25-man roster makeup. That's all I was hinting at, and that is his perogative... if it works, he gets credit, and if it blows up on him, he has to shoulder the responsibility, just like the head guy at any business.

 

I've been pretty vocal in my dislike of Gonzalez at 1B. I think that whoever made the decision made the wrong one. That it led to re-signing Yuni as opposed to simply adding Halton or Morris to the 40-man compounded the "badness" of the decision. If it leads to a significant decrease in the amount of playing time for Segura throughout the season, fans should be very upset.

[PrinceFielderx1]

Gonzalez is hitting 5th tonight, lol.

 

You have got to be kidding me...

[PrinceEatMeat]

Gonzalez is hitting 5th tonight, lol.

 

You have got to be kidding me...

 

Can't make this stuff up. I guess we have that to look forward to every time Maldonado catches now. Hart can't get back soon enough.

[MNBrew]

Are we really going to have 50+ games of this absurd negativity? Really?

 

The Brewers didn't lose yesterday because of where Gonzalez was hitting in the lineup. If Gallardo pitches like that every time and they give up 8 runs in every loss, there are far bigger issues than where Alex Gonzalez bats.

 

Ramirez played extremely good defense last year and now we know he's that much better suited to play 1B than Gonzalez? Doesn't playing 2 guys out of position rather than one create far more potential for trouble?

[monty57]

The Brewers didn't lose yesterday because of where Gonzalez was hitting in the lineup. If Gallardo pitches like that every time and they give up 8 runs in every loss, there are far bigger issues than where Alex Gonzalez bats.

 

No, one game lost because of how Gallardo pitches would be one game. However, Gallardo has proven himself to be a good pitcher, and it is pretty likely that he'll do well if he gets 30+ starts this season. Keeping Gallardo in the rotation is a good idea, so while people won't like the results of that one game, they are not going to blame anyone for starting Gallardo, as they understand that all players have bad games.

 

Gonzalez has a long track record, and has proven that he plays good defense at SS and was a solid pickup to be a backup SS/utility guy. If he starts 1/3 of out games this season at 1B, he will likely not hit to 1B standards. When a team makes a boneheaded move like starting a backup SS at 1B, when that player couldn't get a starting job as a SS even though he plays good defense, then that move deserves scrutiny. It is likely to cost us wins this season, and we're going into the season as a bit of a longshot for the playoffs. We can't afford to make moves that are likely to cost us wins.

 

Edited to make sense :-)

[Outlander]

This is not absurd negativity, this is a thread about the lineup and noting that Gonzalez is batting 5th and playing first is a problem with the lineup. If you want to talk about Gallardo go in some pitching thread.

[Patrick425]

No, that one game was lost largely because of how Gallardo pitched.

 

I'm trying to wrap my head around this conversation...maybe I missed something. Didn't they win the game that Gallardo pitched? Do you guys mean Estrada or Peralta?

[JohnBriggs12]

It's not disturbing enough that Gonzalez is playing where he is and hitting where he is, but it's that Roenicke acts like he thinks it's a real smart move too. Not only is a SS starting at 1B but his backup is another middle infielder. I like Yuni more than anyone else here, but he's very similar offensively to Gonzalez. Yes he had a hot spring with the bat, but he'll cool off being on the bench likely negating that anyway.

 

Are they telling us that there's no experienced 1B available with a bat better than these guys? If they can't find a big bat, at least stick a lefty bat in there or give a guy like Halton or Morris a shot for a month. At least their offense profiles to the position. Ishikawa would be a better alternative too.

[MJLiverock]

Which moves are you referring to? There is plenty of evidence that Lohse had quite a bit of AA meddling and Yuni is squarely on Melvin's shoulders. Other than that, we really have not made any moves other than cutting players in camp and that would fall squarely on the manager.

 

I haven't seen any evidence MA made Melvin sign Lohse. The conjecture is that just because the owner talked with the agent he made the call which I disagree with. Same thing happened with Suppan. Melvin may run big free agent deals by MA, may talk them over with him but just because the owner eats a dinner with the first FA signing of his newly bought team doesn't mean he forced the GM to do the deal. Same with Lohse, and MA didn't even have a dinner with him yet right away the idea gets put out and accepted by some that MA made Melvin sign Lohse rather than Melvin making the call. For all we know Melvin had Boras working on MA because MA didn't want to approve the deal in the first place. It's not like Melvin has some great track record of signing FA pitchers even to lesser deals like Davis, Looper, etc.

 

As far as the second part of the question it was already in this thread blaming RR for the lack of a viable 1B when I argue it is Melvin's responsibility. In past years there have been other complaints blaming the manager for things like Gamel, Green, Henderson, etc. not being called up all of which are the GM's duties especially when 40 man roster moves have to be made to accomodate them like Morris or Halton. Acquiring a legit 1b from outside the system also falls on the GM, as Briggs pointed out Ishikawa is a journeyman 1B that is a better option than using YB or Gonzalez at 1B, plus all the other journeyman guys that moved around in the spring.

[bylo tesi me]

I can't get upset with Gonzalez starting a few games at 1st until Hart returns. If Hart were lost for the season, then yes, they should find a better option. The Brewers lost there 1st, 2nd, and 3rd option for 1st base to injury. Gonzalez was signed to be the utility infeilder. I'm sure it wasn't the ideal situation Gonzalez was looking for, but he signed with the understanding that if anyone should happen to suffer an injury, he would be 1st in line for playing time. Hart got injured, the utility infeilder receives some starts until Hart is healthy. Injury replacements are rarely ideal.

[monty57]

The Brewers lost there 1st, 2nd, and 3rd option for 1st base to injury.

 

Green would have seemed logical, but they already announced Gonzalez was the first baseman prior to Green getting injured. Green was basically fighting with Bianchi for the "utility guy" role. When both got injured, Yuni was signed. I don't envision Green ever getting much playing time in Milwaukee.

 

Injury replacements are rarely ideal.

 

No, but they had to move a 25-year-old first baseman in AAA to the outfield to make place for the new, 24-year-old first baseman (who may well be our full-time starting 1B next year) down there because they wanted to keep both of their big bats in the lineup. You'd think one of them would be a better option to fill in at first base than a backup SS.

 

This looks to be a case of wanting to play the "proven vet" over the rookie even when the rookie looks to be the much better option.

[logan82]

I haven't seen any evidence MA made Melvin sign Lohse. The conjecture is that just because the owner talked with the agent he made the call which I disagree with. Same thing happened with Suppan. Melvin may run big free agent deals by MA, may talk them over with him but just because the owner eats a dinner with the first FA signing of his newly bought team doesn't mean he forced the GM to do the deal. Same with Lohse, and MA didn't even have a dinner with him yet right away the idea gets put out and accepted by some that MA made Melvin sign Lohse rather than Melvin making the call. For all we know Melvin had Boras working on MA because MA didn't want to approve the deal in the first place. It's not like Melvin has some great track record of signing FA pitchers even to lesser deals like Davis, Looper, etc.

 

As far as the second part of the question it was already in this thread blaming RR for the lack of a viable 1B when I argue it is Melvin's responsibility. In past years there have been other complaints blaming the manager for things like Gamel, Green, Henderson, etc. not being called up all of which are the GM's duties especially when 40 man roster moves have to be made to accomodate them like Morris or Halton. Acquiring a legit 1b from outside the system also falls on the GM, as Briggs pointed out Ishikawa is a journeyman 1B that is a better option than using YB or Gonzalez at 1B, plus all the other journeyman guys that moved around in the spring.

You should probably address each post then instead of a blanket statement. It is an internet forum. You are probably going to get complaints about every aspect of the organization even if they are not valid.

 

Sure the final call on every move is up to Melvin but from many accounts, he gives the manager's opinion strong consideration. I have to believe that if he wanted a different 1B, Melvin would have made some moves to at least let him use a guy within our system. I have a very hard time believing that Melvin just put a roster together and said "here is your roster, deal with it."

 

Yes, I believe AA did a lot of meddling in the cases of Lohse and Suppan.

 

Edit:Seems to be confirmed by Melvin that the negotiation was between Boras and MA.

[fondybrewfan]

Our lineup is going to be brutal if Braun and Aram miss any extended period of time

[monty57]

Our lineup is going to be brutal if Braun and Aram miss any extended period of time

 

I hope and pray that Braun will be back in the lineup today. Even so, replacing Ramirez and Hart with Gonzalez and Yuni makes our offense pretty pedestrian.

[trwi7]

Raise your hand if you thought you'd see this lineup in the 5th game of the season back in December or even in spring training.