Braun, Biogenesis and the Whole Crazy Thing

[JimH5]

What if Ryan Braun is a cheater and a liar?

 

What if he used drugs, causing his urine specimen to register a testosterone level that was above the allowed threshold, but then he was able to avoid punishment because the specimen was mishandled?

 

What if he bought those drugs from Tony Bosch, and then lied to MLB about the reason his name appeared on Bosch's clinical records?

 

What if he lied to the media and the fans about his drug use?

 

Why would it be MLB's fault or ESPN's fault for pursuing facts about Braun and exposing those truths?

[logan82]

My only problem with this whole thing is if they skip over the 50-game ban right to the "100-game one more strike you're out" ban.

[SRB]

What if Ryan Braun is a cheater and a liar?

 

What if he used drugs, causing his urine specimen to register a testosterone level that was above the allowed threshold, but then he was able to avoid punishment because the specimen was mishandled?

 

What if he bought those drugs from Tony Bosch, and then lied to MLB about the reason his name appeared on Bosch's clinical records?

 

What if he lied to the media and the fans about his drug use?

 

Why would it be MLB's fault or ESPN's fault for pursuing facts about Braun and exposing those truths?

 

Because they are disregarding the content of their collective bargaining agreement and are using their superior financial resources to de facto blackmail Bosch into turning over, all to expose a crime that nobody should really care that much about.

 

Nevermind the fact that MLB (or an agent of MLB) seriously damaged Braun's career by leaking his initial positive test in the first place, quite unethically (and illegally).

[lcbj68c]

Again...wouldn't a suspension a few weeks out from being announced indicate that the players have already been notified and are already in the appeals process...since suspensions can't be announced according to the JDA until appeals have been exhausted?

[brewmann04]

Seems MLB can do anything and say anything. Still waiting to find out who leaked the first one.

[JimH5]

Because they are disregarding the content of their collective bargaining agreement

 

That's up to the Players Association to dispute. If MLB is in the wrong, the union will let us know about it.

 

and are using their superior financial resources to de facto blackmail Bosch into turning over

 

That's speculation on your part, just as there has been speculation A-Rod was using his superior financial resources to buy the documents that would identify him in this investigation.

 

all to expose a crime that nobody should really care that much about.

 

It's not your place to say what people should and should not care about.

 

Nevermind the fact that MLB (or an agent of MLB) seriously damaged Braun's career by leaking his initial positive test in the first place, quite unethically (and illegally).

 

More speculation. Nobody knows who leaked what. And if Braun has suffered damages, he's entitled to sue for damages.

[brwrsfan]

If the appeals have been heard, nobody knows the verdict. Though if that's true it would once again mean a leak.

 

I read this as MLB is expecting Bosch to give them enough evidence to issue the suspensions, with the appeals to follow. If that's the case it could be 2-3 months before he is suspended, meaning he misses more than half next season.

[narwhalattack]

But the fact is, we will never know. We can speculate all we want but there's no way to prove that we're right. Just like how it's difficult to say that Braun is innocent, it's difficult to say that he's guilty. MLB will never let us know the details.

[sheetskout]

I find it very strange that the key word in the language released is "linked". Somewhere in the back of my head I believe whatever Braun was on was not a PED.

[lcbj68c]

If the appeals have been heard, nobody knows the verdict. Though if that's true it would once again mean a leak.

 

I read this as MLB is expecting Bosch to give them enough evidence to issue the suspensions, with the appeals to follow. If that's the case it could be 2-3 months before he is suspended, meaning he misses more than half next season.

 

 

That's my thought. It's almost as if ESPN/MLB doesn't care about their responsibilities to the JDA and are prepared to issue/announce suspensions in just a few weeks, prior to the appeals process.

[SRB]

Because they are disregarding the content of their collective bargaining agreement

 

That's up to the Players Association to dispute. If MLB is in the wrong, the union will let us know about it.

 

and are using their superior financial resources to de facto blackmail Bosch into turning over

 

The text of the agreement is not ambiguous. Threatening an additional violating for lying to MLB is clearly ridiculous.

 

That's speculation on your part, just as there has been speculation A-Rod was using his superior financial resources to buy the documents that would identify him in this investigation.

 

Why else would he suddenly cooperate? His love of The Purity of Baseball ?

 

all to expose a crime that nobody should really care that much about.

 

It's not your place to say what people should and should not care about.

 

Ok, just like everyone has the right to be outraged by MLB's conduct.

 

Nevermind the fact that MLB (or an agent of MLB) seriously damaged Braun's career by leaking his initial positive test in the first place, quite unethically (and illegally).

 

More speculation. Nobody knows who leaked what. And if Braun has suffered damages, he's entitled to sue for damages.

Do you think Braun's camp leaked it? If not, then it was MLB or an agent of MLB. He has clearly suffered damages but likely did not pursue them (probably would have been via arbitration for breach of the agreement) in order for the whole matter to go away.

[logan82]

Nevermind the fact that MLB (or an agent of MLB) seriously damaged Braun's career by leaking his initial positive test in the first place, quite unethically (and illegally).

The common belief is that somebody in Braun's camp or somebody they consulted was the leak.

[brewmann04]

I would love to see espn and their investigators come off with egg all over their face.

[SRB]

Nevermind the fact that MLB (or an agent of MLB) seriously damaged Braun's career by leaking his initial positive test in the first place, quite unethically (and illegally).

The common belief is that somebody in Braun's camp or somebody they consulted was the leak.

Based on what?

[pebadger]

ESPN has no responsibility with respect to the JDA. MLB does, but they are actively avoiding their duty to act responsibly by letting ESPN do all their talking for them.

 

It's like the US turning guys over to Omanis and the Saudis so our friends there can do our dirty work for us when waterboarding and whatever else we think we can legally do doesn't work.

[Schlitz001]

My only problem with this whole thing is if they skip over the 50-game ban right to the "100-game one more strike you're out" ban.

 

This is also my biggest complaint. Can MLB really potentially suspend A-Rod and Braun 100 games for lying about taking PEDs? It seems like being sentenced twice for the same crime. I'm sure there are other examples of players who tested positive for PEDs after publicly stating that they didn't take them.

[RobDeer 45]

To people saying that Braun had not spike in numbers so therefore either was taking something his whole career or is innocent, I believe that you are looking at this like its the steroid era. I believe the PEDs aren't like that anymore. They are now used to maintain and make a player feel closer to 100% and maintain their play. Therefore you won't see the spike like you used to and more just see consistency and a little more prolonged prime. So to me, I don't think you can look at #'s to see if a guy is guilty or innocent.

[pebadger]

Because they are disregarding the content of their collective bargaining agreement

 

That's up to the Players Association to dispute. If MLB is in the wrong, the union will let us know about it.

 

 

The same union that collaborated with MLB to bury a written decision by Shyam Das that would have shed light on what really happened in the Braun case? (Despite all the repeated talk of "technicality" and whatnot, nobody really knows exactly why Braun won, and we'll likely never know. MLBPA has demonstrated that their organizational interests and the interests of individual members do not exactly coincide when it comes to this whole mess. In fact, in many ways their interests are more aligned with MLB than they are with any given member. They, like everyone else it seems, are doing everything they can to not look like the "bad guy" who protects cheats in all of this. MLB is overcompensating for its past neglect of the issue. The merely accused are treated as pariahs. The facts hardly matter anymore. It's all a morality play. It's all black and white. Various shades of grey need not apply.

[Patrick425]

This just reeks of corruption. MLB is just incredibly paranoid about PEDs, to the point where this has turned into a witch hunt.

 

At this rate the whole method might become almost Stalinist; any random fool would accuse a player of PEDs and the player would be gone automatically without a fair trial.

 

He failed a drug test and is associated with a shady character like Bosch. His defense for the Bosch connection wasn't "Hey, he wrote my name on a piece of paper but I don't know this guy at all". I'm not sure how anyone can continue to believe Braun did not take PED's. What really upsets me is that he just didn't own up to it. I would have had a ton more respect for him if he had just done that and admitted the error of his ways.

[JimH5]

The same union that collaborated with MLB to bury a written decision by Shyam Das that would have shed light on what really happened in the Braun case? (Despite all the repeated talk of "technicality" and whatnot, nobody really knows exactly why Braun won, and we'll likely never know.

 

One man's "burying a written decision" is another man's "following the protocol of the agreement hammered out in negotiations".

 

MLBPA has demonstrated that their organizational interests and the interests of individual members do not exactly coincide when it comes to this whole mess.

 

That's what a union is. Or a homeowners association. Or a softball team. It's a group of people who collaborate together to do what's in the best interest of the group.

 

In fact, in many ways their interests are more aligned with MLB than they are with any given member. They, like everyone else it seems, are doing everything they can to not look like the "bad guy" who protects cheats in all of this.

 

If Braun or A-Rod or any of the others have issue with this, that's between them and the Players Association. And being members of the PA doesn't take away their rights as citizens. Any of these guys can sue for damages. And yet none of them has.

 

MLB is overcompensating for its past neglect of the issue. The merely accused are treated as pariahs. The facts hardly matter anymore. It's all a morality play. It's all black and white. Various shades of grey need not apply.

 

You mean the facts that neither you nor I really know?

 

I think if a player gets suspended, it means they did something that violated the agreement, they had their hearing, and they and their representatives failed to have the suspension overturned on appeal. I believe this system will be right nearly every time, and when it is wrong, the player, his representatives and the union will take legal action to recover damages.

 

Otherwise you're telling me that the sport is purposely destroying its own product. That the strongest labor union in the country is fine with letting its members getting steamrolled by a corrupt system. And after being fined millions of dollars and having their names falsely smeared in public, the most competitive guys in the world will sit idly on their hands instead of seeking damages against a multi-billion dollar industry.

 

I think I'm safe on the other side of that argument.

[Patrick425]

Excellent post JimH. There are a lot of Brewer fans out there still living in denial.

[narwhalattack]

Excellent post JimH. There are a lot of Brewer fans out there still living in denial.

 

Actually, I don't know and therefore I'm not jumping to any conclusions. I'm not claiming that Braun is innocent, and at the same time I'm not claiming that he's guilty either. Sure he failed a test, but the procedures for that particular tests were faulty. You can call it technicalities all you want, but there's a reason why the standards and procedures are there in the first place. Could he have had taken something? Possibly. But with the faulty procedure with the testing we will never clearly know.

 

And just because there is an association to Bosche doesn't mean that he purchased PEDs from him either, and a scribble of a name on paper isn't solid proof IMO. Maybe Braun's defense team were trying to get more information about PEDs from the man who sells them. Who knows? No one is going to give us any details and speculation doesn't equate to fact.

[torts]

The thing I am not understanding in all this is--how the hell could they suspend him for 100 games, which would be the penalty for a second infraction. If he won his appeal, does MLB now get to say "we're going after you again, and forget whatever happened before. We don't care if the independent arbiter said you were innocent. We say you were guilty, and so we're going to treat that first infraction as if we won the case."

 

Apparently arbitration is only binding in MLB's eyes if they win.

 

I just read the CBA and I really don't know how they could. To suspend for a performance enhancing drug the agreement states they need to show use or possession of a banned substance. I don't see how lying about it equates use or possession. There is also a provision that allows the Commissioner to suspend someone for "just cause" for abusing prohibited substance but lying about it does not equate using a prohibited substance. I think they are threatening with 100 with the hopes that the players take the 50 without appealing.

 

 

I havent read all of the posts yet but I felt I needed to comment to this. There is a defined penalty structure that MLB and the MLBPA agreed to in the CBA, as well as within the JDA. In a short, simple answer, IF the MLB goes for a 100 game suspension of Ryan Braun they will be violating the agreed upon terms of the CBA, and THAT technicality will be how Braun wins the appeal, for not following the defined penalty structure, thus showing that MLB did not have "just cause". Again, it will not be because of testimony of Biogensis/ect or whatever was in the previous arbitration, it will be because of the language of the CBA, and the misinterpretation of it by MLB.

[narwhalattack]

If that works that would be good for the Brewers and all, but I would like to see some actual facts relating to Biogenesis and the likes. What really happened behind the scenes with Biogenesis and the players linked to it?

[torts]

If that works that would be good for the Brewers and all, but I would like to see some actual facts relating to Biogenesis and the likes. What really happened behind the scenes with Biogenesis and the players linked to it?

 

it'll be good for ALL players if that works out like that. MLBPA cannot allow the MLB to run rampant with discipline.