Braun, Biogenesis and the Whole Crazy Thing

[RobertR]

I really wonder how the precedent of Steve Howe applies to any of these possible suspensions that aren't spelled out in the CBA. I have a hard time imagining that you can be suspended longer for not failing a drug test but there being some evidence which may be entirely circumstantial.

[pebadger]

Also, not that it matters one way or another, but it seems strange that this entire list is Hispanic players, save for Braun. Wishful thinking is he is the odd man out because he really was only associated due to his lawyers consulting Bosch during the appeal. But who knows at this point.

 

Miami connection.

 

The ironic thing is that Miami New Times, which is the almost completely uncredited journalistic linchpin to this whole thing blowing up, specfically looked at Bigenesis/Bosch with a special emphasis on his connections to players with specific ties to Miami and especially the University of Miami. They said NOTHING about former Hurricane Ryan Braun in their initial, original reporting.

 

As for legalities of all of this: actual law has almost nothing to do with any of this, as I've been trying to drive home for a while now. I'm not really exaggerating here. There is a framework of rules that constitutes the agreement between MLB and MLBPA which will sort of govern how this plays out. Everything else is, to one degree or another, just being made up as they go along to one degree or another. The parties have made their own rules. MLB is trying to get their targets. Agents, attorneys and presumably the union are doing everything they can to protect players (individually and collectively). "Real" law will only come into play here if things really go off the rails, and even then the courts aren't ever going to get to questions of who did or didn't use PEDs. They'll deal with issues that very few people here will care about unless they're lawyers.

 

Nor am I exaggerating when I repeat, for the millionth time, that these private drug prosecutions are very much kangaroo courts. They are not designed to get at truth. They are not designed to be "fair" in the sense that Americans take for granted, to whatever extent they trust the courts to be "fair". They are designed to take advantage of Americans' assumptions that official sounding, court-like proceedings have built-in mechanisms to provide a reasonably level playing field for parties with adverse interests and that the (virtually unanimously guilty) pronouncements from these bodies can be understood to be "just".

[thebruce44]

I understand this deviates 1-from real law and 2-from MLB/MLBPA agreements, but I could also see the Federal Government getting involved at some point. Or rather, it seems as though they are already involved since they were used as leverage to get Bosch to talk. MLB and the Feds are way too connected, though maybe they will support a lack of due process.

[torts]

I understand this deviates 1-from real law and 2-from MLB/MLBPA agreements, but I could also see the Federal Government getting involved at some point. Or rather, it seems as though they are already involved since they were used as leverage to get Bosch to talk. MLB and the Feds are way too connected, though maybe they will support a lack of due process.

 

everything ive read has said any state/federal involvement will only be related towards the regulations/requirements by the Department of Health for the substances being controlled and sold by Biogenisis and not be involved with MLB and the players.

[thebruce44]

I understand this deviates 1-from real law and 2-from MLB/MLBPA agreements, but I could also see the Federal Government getting involved at some point. Or rather, it seems as though they are already involved since they were used as leverage to get Bosch to talk. MLB and the Feds are way too connected, though maybe they will support a lack of due process.

 

everything ive read has said any state/federal involvement will only be related towards the regulations/requirements by the Department of Health for the substances being controlled and sold by Biogenisis and not be involved with MLB and the players.

 

Unless of course MLB tells them not to investigate it because they can apparently give immunity now, or rather put in a good word.

[markedman5]

So if Braun makes a deal we can assume that the union thought the evidence against him was "overwhelming"…

 

 

Union head Michael Weiner told the New York Daily News that the MLBPA is "not interested" in protecting players for whom overwhelming evidence exists that they used performance-enhancing drugs.

 

Although he did not refer to any specific players in his interview Wednesday with the Daily News, Weiner emphasized that the union has prioritized a clean program. He told the paper that the union will attempt to "make a deal" for players with overwhelming PED evidence against them.

 

"I can tell you, if we have a case where there really is overwhelming evidence that a player committed a violation of the program, our fight is going to be that they make a deal," Weiner told the Daily News. "We're not interested in having players with overwhelming evidence that they violated the [drug] program out there. Most of the players aren't interested in that. We'd like to have a clean program."

[FVBrewerFan]

Nor am I exaggerating when I repeat, for the millionth time, that these private drug prosecutions are very much kangaroo courts. They are not designed to get at truth. They are not designed to be "fair" in the sense that Americans take for granted, to whatever extent they trust the courts to be "fair".

 

 

That is your opinion, and you are saying this as though it is fact. There's been a lot of this throughout this thread, and the irony is stunning. Over and over people are complaining about leaks, and that ESPN is reporting them. Where are the facts? Where are the facts? has been the common refrain here. Then some of you turn right around and throw out your own rumors, opinions, etc. about MLB and the whole process in general.

 

We can't have it both ways. If we can't assume Braun is guilty based on partial information that may not even be accurate, why can't MLB be treated the same way?

[chadomac]

With how long it's going to drag out, I think this will easily be the most-posted-about thread in Brewerfan history.

[dlk9s]

With how long it's going to drag out, I think this will easily be the most-posted-about thread in Brewerfan history.

 

Only when Yuni gets involved.

[Funketown]

Can somebody send Selig a scribbled note with Yuni's name?

[pebadger]

Nor am I exaggerating when I repeat, for the millionth time, that these private drug prosecutions are very much kangaroo courts. They are not designed to get at truth. They are not designed to be "fair" in the sense that Americans take for granted, to whatever extent they trust the courts to be "fair".

 

 

That is your opinion, and you are saying this as though it is fact. There's been a lot of this throughout this thread, and the irony is stunning. Over and over people are complaining about leaks, and that ESPN is reporting them. Where are the facts? Where are the facts? has been the common refrain here. Then some of you turn right around and throw out your own rumors, opinions, etc. about MLB and the whole process in general.

 

We can't have it both ways. If we can't assume Braun is guilty based on partial information that may not even be accurate, why can't MLB be treated the same way?

 

I'm not talking about the substance of any individual case or whether any player is "guilty" or "not guilty". I'm talking about basic procedural protections in the system for those accused of violating the policy. What constitutes 'due process' in these matters is NOT what people understand to be basic due process in courts. It just isn't and that's not opinion. It's a major part of the system for the drug prosecutors to never make any of this especially clear to the public.

 

For example, MLB is not under any obligation to provide much in the way of 'pre-trial' discovery. MLB isn't under any obligation to even provide exculpatory evidence. The witnesses from the WADA labs who testify as the their findings must agree, as a condition of their employment, to never consult with or testify for, people who are trying to defend themselves in drug cases. I could go on and on. If any of that sounds like it's "fair" under any conception you might have of law in the US, I guess you have a different conception of "fair", and a different understanding of the law, than I do. Don't take my word for it. Read up on how these things work.

[JimH5]

I was at the game tonight and heard my first Braun boos. There weren't many--maybe just a few loud guys.

 

I think that is premature, as he's in the lineup, not on suspension, perhaps never to be suspended. I have lots of unanswered questions and suspicions about him, but I don't think I'd boo him until the final verdict was in--and I'm not sure that I would ever boo him.

 

There was also a guy with a Braun shirsey who used blue painters tape to block out the R and U, so the nameplate read "BAN" over the 8.

 

Very creative, and sad at the same time.

[DatHoser]

Can somebody send Selig a scribbled note with Yuni's name?

 

Post of the year! The rest of us are going for second place from here on out.

 

As far as this whole crazy thing, I'm trying to avoid it but it's like a moth to the flame for me - at least on this site. Right now nothing would surprise me anymore, other than ESPN finally admitting they're just a bunch of hacks.

 

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Continued in this topic:

 

Braun Suspended for Remainder of 2013 Season