Braun, Biogenesis and the Whole Crazy Thing

[Invader3K]

I know I sound like a broken record at this point, but I really do not think Braun will ever serve any sort of suspension at this point. The whole thing just seems like it's going to flame out based on lack of solid evidence, or just get tied up in the courts for years.

[JohnBriggs12]

I know I sound like a broken record at this point, but I really do not think Braun will ever serve any sort of suspension at this point. The whole thing just seems like it's going to flame out based on lack of solid evidence, or just get tied up in the courts for years.

 

Remember the objective of the entire episode is not to punish players as much as it is to erase the stain on Bud's tenure at the expense of reputations of several players most notably Ryan Braun who's guilt won't rest on whether or not he ever serves a suspension or whether or not he's dirty or not.

[JimH5]

Remember the objective of the entire episode is not to punish players as much as it is to erase the stain on Bud's tenure at the expense of reputations of several players most notably Ryan Braun who's guilt won't rest on whether or not he ever serves a suspension or whether or not he's dirty or not.

 

Wow, that is some deep digging.

[thebruce44]

Remember the objective of the entire episode is not to punish players as much as it is to erase the stain on Bud's tenure at the expense of reputations of several players most notably Ryan Braun who's guilt won't rest on whether or not he ever serves a suspension or whether or not he's dirty or not.

 

Wow, that is some deep digging.

 

No its not. Its been said many times here and by others in the media.

[JimH5]

Remember the objective of the entire episode is not to punish players as much as it is to erase the stain on Bud's tenure at the expense of reputations of several players most notably Ryan Braun who's guilt won't rest on whether or not he ever serves a suspension or whether or not he's dirty or not.

 

Wow, that is some deep digging.

 

No its not. Its been said many times here and by others in the media.

 

 

Sure. Baseball's in the business of scouting, developing and promoting star players, so that later, they can make up lies about those players and suspend them without real justification, because that's the best way to sell the game to fans..

 

Really?

[gregmag]

Leaving aside the sordid merits of the whole thing (except to say that I think JB is largely right), why would MLB announce big drug suspensions over the All-Star Break? All-Star Weekend is the biggest public showcase for MLB other than the postseason. I think MLB is totally craven and fairly stupid, but to do what ESPN says they're going to do, they would have to be over-the-top, bat-guano insane.

[Baldkin]

Leaving aside the sordid merits of the whole thing (except to say that I think JB is largely right), why would MLB announce big drug suspensions over the All-Star Break? All-Star Weekend is the biggest public showcase for MLB other than the postseason. I think MLB is totally craven and fairly stupid, but to do what ESPN says they're going to do, they would have to be over-the-top, bat-guano insane.

 

They'd announce them the day after the ASG.

[thebruce44]

Remember the objective of the entire episode is not to punish players as much as it is to erase the stain on Bud's tenure at the expense of reputations of several players most notably Ryan Braun who's guilt won't rest on whether or not he ever serves a suspension or whether or not he's dirty or not.

 

Wow, that is some deep digging.

 

No its not. Its been said many times here and by others in the media.

 

 

Sure. Baseball's in the business of scouting, developing and promoting star players, so that later, they can make up lies about those players and suspend them without real justification, because that's the best way to sell the game to fans..

 

Really?

 

Nobody ever said MLB was operating in their best interest here.

[SRB]

Well, many law firms have several employees. I'm sure there are members of the administrative staff that do "grunt" work on cases. Perhaps some clerk from the law firm is at a bar, has a few too many, and starts talking to his friends..."You wouldn't believe the project I was working on today....."

 

I'm not saying this happened, but it's not far fetched for the leak to have come from Braun's side. People act like only Braun, his attorney, Bud Selig, and a person at the test lab knew about it. There are probably dozens of people on each side that were involved. Several people at the lab, several people in the MLB offices (including MLB attorneys), several people on Brauns side (his attorneys and staff, possibly his agent?, possibly his girlfriend?, parents?), at least 2 or 3 people at the lab that conducted the test.

 

Also, it's not like I'm some huge fan of ESPN (although, I guess I don't have the animosity towards them that others seem to), but do you think any other news agency would have sat on this news if they had received it? I doubt it.

I definitely agree that it's possible, but client confidentiality is a huge deal for law firms. That would be a pretty egregious offense, not something that is just a run of the mill mistake. Which is why I was wondering what the evidence for assuming it was Braun's camp was. I highly doubt his girlfriend or parents were going around talking about how Braun was going to get suspended for 50-games (remember, the initial leak was fairly specific).

 

It seems much more likely to me that somebody at MLB leaked it, or somebody involved with the drug testing (who I assume would be an agent of MLB's and thus would still make MLB liable for the leak). But they got away with it (1) because Braun wanted everything to die down, and (2) the MLBPA probably didn't want to bring a potentially huge lawsuit against MLB (what would the damages be for harm to Braun's career/financial interests -- in the millions?)

[JackNicholson1974]

Braun's cooperation or lack thereof is surely at the advice of his legal advisors.

 

Always listen to your lawyer.

 

Never lie to your lawyer. They really don't like surprises. If ya did it, tell him.

 

This could not be more true, as a side note, completely unrelated to Braun but completely related to the above quote, I have a (crazy) client who is accused of pointing a gun at another and pulling the trigger, amongst other things, but the gun did not fire. Anyway, he is charged with a bunch of stuff but it is all complete hearsay. Trial is set for next week on his demand (we could get longer if he wanted) but the gun has not been fingerprinted yet. Because the case is so flimsy the DA has agreed to dismiss charges if the gun comes back without his fingerprints. My client looks me in the eye and tells me he never touched the gun and his prints are not on it. I tell him great, then we adjourn until the gun is processed and the case will be dismissed against you. He says no, he doesnt want to wait, lets just go to trial without the evidence. He is either crazy (probably), mentally ill (definitely) or lying to me. Dont lie to me. I dont care what you did, I just want to defend you in your best interests.

[JJHardy7]

I don't really care if ESPN is breaking the story, has an ax to grind, etc, etc...what I do care about is the fact that whatever the case might be it is more and more clear that Braun put himself in a position he shouldn't have. That's disappointing and honestly moves him down quite a few pegs in my book.

 

What would be the reaction around here if it was a Cub, Cardinal, etc?

[brwrsfan]

I was talking about this with a friend tonight and let's say that Braun is telling the truth and that he really did just simply use this guy for legal help.

 

Let's also say that everything about his first test was confidential. What would the reaction be right now? Would it all come out that he failed a test last season? Or does that help him in that he can use that as an excuse (true or not)? I can't imagine the backlash right now if it all came out in one fell swoop that he failed a test (and won) and that he's also on this Bosch list.

 

As far as dropping Braun a few pages, it depends how much you want to believe? It's proven that his sample sat around for days and that supposedly he could reproduce the results (Will Carrol article). It's also possible he used Bosch for legal help (and thus why his amount was like 20k not 1500). Is it all coincidences that it was all public? Bad luck? He's really using? Who knows...when literally everything is circumstanial and whatnot, makes everyone decide for themselves.

[pebadger]

No matter how all this finally ends up, barring an admission of a violation by Braun, there is a very good possibility that you will be able to take whatever evidence ends up being revealed and shaping it to your preferred version of the 'truth' in this case.

[Patrick425]

No matter how all this finally ends up, barring an admission of a violation by Braun, there is a very good possibility that you will be able to take whatever evidence ends up being revealed and shaping it to your preferred version of the 'truth' in this case.

 

Exactly.

[TURBO]

I don't really care if ESPN is breaking the story, has an ax to grind, etc, etc...what I do care about is the fact that whatever the case might be it is more and more clear that Braun put himself in a position he shouldn't have. That's disappointing and honestly moves him down quite a few pegs in my book.

 

What would be the reaction around here if it was a Cub, Cardinal, etc?

 

Yup, it completely taints my views on him, and my guess is, he won't be held in such high regards with the all time Brewer greats because of it. If he is suspended, found guilty, whatever, can you really envision a statue at Miller Park to go along with hank, Robin and Uecker?

 

Had this stuff never happened, I almost think the statue was 100% going to be in future plans had his career played out like we think, and he remained a Brewer for all or at least the majority of his career.

 

The entire situation is just one big black mark on Ryan Braun, guilty or not, and it bums me out.

 

Favre was a God in Wisconsin, now it seems most dismiss him. I think this could set Braun down the same path. Not the same situation as Favre, but the stain on his reputation might not be something a lot of people are going to forget.

[pebadger]

The funny/sad/disheartening thing about the whole Braun mess is that there really hasn't been ANY significant change in what we actually KNOW about his situation since the time he won his appeal, other than that his name has been linked to Biogenesis. That's all. The story hasn't changed, except in the manner that constant repetition, and media/public speculation on that repetition, has allowed the story to be a sort of self-replicating organism. And yet you now hear virtually every day, if you are listening, to people talk about how they could give Braun the benefit of the doubt if it weren't for all the connections.

 

Maybe he's "guilty". Maybe he's innocent. The way this whole story has been told and our reaction to it is honestly a bigger issue in the long run than the alleged sins of Ryan Braun at this point.

[Warning Track Power]

The story hasn't changed, except in the manner that constant repetition, and media/public speculation on that repetition, has allowed the story to be a sort of self-replicating organism. And yet you now hear virtually every day, if you are listening, to people talk about how they could give Braun the benefit of the doubt if it weren't for all the connections.

Exactly my thoughts on the whole thing. Additionally, Braun himself has admitted to a relationship with Bosch for consulting purposes during his appeal process. I wish there were some jorunalists left out there who would track down this portion of the story and try to determine the "truth" about this confessed relationship rather than "journalists" like Buster Olney or Jeff Passan.

[BrewCrewForever]

I heard that last season Braun was tested 27 times. I think the normal player is tested maybe 3-5 times during the year. Braun of course did not test positive for anything and went on to put up a .319/.391/.595 w/ 41 HR. So I guess my only point here is that if he did or didn't use anything at one time, probably didn't matter. He's good at baseball and that is why he puts up the numbers he has.

[sveumrules]

I pretty much assume that everyone in all professional sports is on something because (1) the financial incentive to do so is great (B) the testing in all three leagues is a joke and (!) with the number of other players using you are at a disadvantage if you don't.

 

That said, this whole fiasco does nothing to lessen my impression of Braun or any Cardinal or Cub that may be involved. If someone fails a test, loses their arbitration hearing and is subsequently suspended they certainly deserve it. Anyone who is suspended as a result of this investigation will have been wronged in my eyes because the whole thing is clearly a joke from a legal perspective.

[Outlander]

Yup, it completely taints my views on him, and my guess is, he won't be held in such high regards with the all time Brewer greats because of it. If he is suspended, found guilty, whatever, can you really envision a statue at Miller Park to go along with hank, Robin and Uecker?

I actually think it is going to be pretty funny when Braun has his statue within a few feet of Selig's.

[jerichoholicninja]

Hypothetically let's say Braun comes out an admits that he failed his test last year because he was taking something but had never done it before and since and has passed every other test. What does this tell us about the effect steroids have? Braun's "roided" season was only slightly better than the rest of his career.

[torts]

I heard that last season Braun was tested 27 times. I think the normal player is tested maybe 3-5 times during the year. Braun of course did not test positive for anything and went on to put up a .319/.391/.595 w/ 41 HR. So I guess my only point here is that if he did or didn't use anything at one time, probably didn't matter. He's good at baseball and that is why he puts up the numbers he has.

 

it is a fact that Braun was tested far more than other players because of the failed test the season prior, even with the overturned appeal, its required by the Joint Drug Agreement, but I dont think the number of times a player is tested is public knowledge, that should be protected by HIPPA

[Dnye23]

 

Really? This may go as far as a lifetime ban?....... ESPN keeps adding to this dramatic soap opera.

[trwi7]

Rovell is awful, the absolute worst of internet trolls that ESPN employs and that's saying something.

[dlk9s]

 

Really? This may go as far as a lifetime ban?....... ESPN keeps adding to this dramatic soap opera.

 

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