Braun, Biogenesis and the Whole Crazy Thing

[Patrick425]

 

I don't know what was asked of him. None of us do. And we don't know if it's a kangaroo court or not. It's a diligent effort--or at least an effort to appear diligent--to chase drug use out of baseball. At least that's my opinion of it.

 

 

Very well put Jim and I agree 100%.

[Outlander]

I am completely serious when I say/type this: If MLB tries to suspend the Brewers' franchise player based on a drug dealer having his name written on a piece of paper, with no evidence other than the testimony of said scumbag drug dealer, then the Brewers should take down that statue of Bud Selig outside of Miller Park.

Doubt the Brewers would do that but security may need to pay extra attention around the statue as there may be angry Brewers fans who don't want the statue there anymore.

[TooLiveBrew]

Wow..there sure is alot of unabashed defending of Braun and bashing of Selig on this page.

A lot of wild assumptions being made by a small number of posters assuming Braun's guilt, too...

[ewitkows]

And we don't know who is leaking this. This stuff is suppose to be done behind closed doors till after the appeal. These are the people Braun should be going after.

[fondybrewfan]

Regardless of Braun's history with MLB it seems like a very bad idea to not cooperate simply out of spite. Whats the point of waiting to cooperate until you have to appeal the suspension? I am sure both sides were recording the meeting; if Braun simply was truthful about his relationship with Bosch then I really don't see what harm could have come from this. Braun and his legal team probably just have a plan in place if the suspension were issued perhaps something beyond a normal appeal.

 

Who knows; but much like the last time where we were never told a lot of the specifics the same will probably apply here. There is probably evidence that we don't know about and I am sure Braun knows more than what he has let on. That doesn't mean that he bought from Bosch, just that he is keeping certain information close to the vest.

[JohnBriggs12]

From what I understand, in this instance there is an appeals process that comes into affect after the suspensions are handed down. Braun and his team may indeed know that MLB's evidence is weak and are just waiting to answer in their appeal if and when an actual suspension is announced. Had he talked to MLB now, experience tells him that MLB would have spun whatever he said to them in a negative light. Certainly the testimony alone from a drug dealer who had earlier publicly backed Braun's story is weak. Of course, that's assuming appeals will be heard by someone who is impartial, and based on MLB's history with arbitrators, that's no sure thing.

[fondybrewfan]

That seems to be taking a huge gamble though. But I suppose Braun probably figured that no matter what he said he was going to get suspended anyway so he might as well hold back until the independent arbitrator comes in to play. I just hope the new guy that replaced Das isn't some MLB stooge that MLBPA was forced to accept.

[Patrick425]

And we don't know who is leaking this. This stuff is suppose to be done behind closed doors till after the appeal. These are the people Braun should be going after.

 

According to T.J. Quinn at ESPN, who seems to know what he is talking about in regards to MLB rules regarding the arbitration process, once a case because public, as this one has, they can announce suspensions publicly without having to wait until the appeal process has taken place (this does not mean that players are not allowed to appeal).

 

Play video:

 

http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_/id/9464246/ryan-braun-refused-answer-mlb-questions-biogenesis-clinic-sources-say

[JohnBriggs12]

Haudricourt is now quoting Braun as saying "The vast majority of stories that have come out are definitely inaccurate".

 

Translation: "ESPN is full of it"

 

Braun has his cards close to his vest. He's smart enough to know he's been a target, and already guilty in the media. The only thing that will change that is something dramatic. He may or may not be able to produce something dramatic that could clear his name, but proving one's innocence in cases like this is nearly impossible. He may be able to discredit the evidence enough to avoid/overturn a suspension, but the damage is done and he's resigned to the conequences, ie, no HOF etc.

[3and2Fastball]

And we don't know who is leaking this. This stuff is suppose to be done behind closed doors till after the appeal. These are the people Braun should be going after.

 

According to T.J. Quinn at ESPN, who seems to know what he is talking about in regards to MLB rules regarding the arbitration process, once a case because public, as this one has, they can announce suspensions publicly without having to wait until the appeal process has taken place (this does not mean that players are not allowed to appeal).

 

Play video:

 

http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_/id/9464246/ryan-braun-refused-answer-mlb-questions-biogenesis-clinic-sources-say

 

Which essentially makes ESPN one step away from the National Enquirer. If Braun once again gets suspended and once again wins the appeal process, he and his lawyers should sue ESPN for $50 million for defamation of character and lost wages from endorsement deals. This whole fiasco could cost Braun a chance at the Hall of Fame due to irresponsible tabloid style "reporting" and an overzealous commissioner who is trying to make up for his own horribly tarnished legacy.

[bjkrautk]

I am effectively numb to the stories teasing out a possible suspension.

 

When a suspension is announced, then I will worry about it. I have to imagine MLB will release a report documenting what evidence they do or don't have regarding each of the players suspended (or at least Braun and A-Rod, assuming they are among the suspended).

 

If that doesn't happen next week....well....it won't be the first time ESPN has ever incorrectly reported a Braun suspension story.

[kalle8]

i don't know american laws or MLBPA contracts, but how can you suspend a player for "connections"?

i am not talking about penal implications or perjury or other issues not strictly connected my MLB.

 

MLB should suspend a player if there is evidence that he used (not bought or possessed) PED.

or what?

[Patrick425]

And we don't know who is leaking this. This stuff is suppose to be done behind closed doors till after the appeal. These are the people Braun should be going after.

 

According to T.J. Quinn at ESPN, who seems to know what he is talking about in regards to MLB rules regarding the arbitration process, once a case because public, as this one has, they can announce suspensions publicly without having to wait until the appeal process has taken place (this does not mean that players are not allowed to appeal).

 

Play video:

 

http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_/id/9464246/ryan-braun-refused-answer-mlb-questions-biogenesis-clinic-sources-say

 

Which essentially makes ESPN one step away from the National Enquirer. If Braun once again gets suspended and once again wins the appeal process, he and his lawyers should sue ESPN for $50 million for defamation of character and lost wages from endorsement deals. This whole fiasco could cost Braun a chance at the Hall of Fame due to irresponsible tabloid style "reporting" and an overzealous commissioner who is trying to make up for his own horribly tarnished legacy.

 

To be fair, wasn't it the New Miami Times (or whatever it's called) that broke this latest story about Bosch and his connection to several MLB players? Braun's reaction was that his lawyers contacted Bosch as a possible consultant during the appeals process. Well, if Brauns positive test had never been leaked by ESPN, then Braun could have never made that statement.

 

Also, not sure how what I posted about TJ Quinn stating seemingly factual information about how the MLB appeal process works makes ESPN one step away from the National Enquirer?

[JimH5]

i don't know american laws or MLBPA contracts, but how can you suspend a player for "connections"?

i am not talking about penal implications or perjury or other issues not strictly connected my MLB.

 

MLB should suspend a player if there is evidence that he used (not bought or possessed) PED.

or what?

 

Others on this site have a better legal background than me--I have none.

 

But I believe that the contract negotiated between MLB and the MLBPA (the union representing MLB players) recognizes evidence beyond the results of drug tests. I'm guessing that includes things like signed documents & shipping records. I can't imagine it would only be the testimony of shady characters. There has to be something verifiable.

 

I would think if they had a personal check signed by a player, and shipping records from Fed Ex, indicating a package from Biogenesis to a player's house. . .that would be evidence that would be used against that player.

 

Again, mine is a guess based on reading Tom Verducci, Buster Olney, Jon Heyman, Jeff Passan, etc.

[stoutdude04]

Its almost like ESPN doesn't even do any fact checking. Steven A Smith just talked about Braun having 9 homeruns and 30ish rbi...then said maybe the production is down because he's clean now. I guess it has nothing to do with him being hurt for a month...this is just silly.

[kalle8]

i don't get it, i simply don't get it.

 

if I am a (well known) player who wants to take PED, do I call MYSELF the dealer and then i get the packege sent to my house?

 

and the dealer take notes on a piece of paper "cabrera, colon, arod, ...did Braun told without peperoni?"

 

after the delivery i (well known player) write a cheque from my account to the dealer of illegal substance.

 

if these are the facts (and that's what we know by now) they shouldn't be suspended but hospitalized like fools: AMERICAN BASEBALL HORROR STORY.

 

there shuuld be more than this, a lot more.

[torts]

there is, i can be pretty certain that your set of events is not how any of this played out, and they probably paid with cash, or through a third party, and not from a personal check account

[JimH5]

there is, i can be pretty certain that your set of events is not how any of this played out, and they probably paid with cash, or through a third party, and not from a personal check account

 

Agreed. I was trying (awkwardly) to give an example to kalle8 on how a player might be in violation of the agreement without a positive test, and what might be considered evidence beyond the word of a questionable figure.

[torts]

also, part of the 100 game suspension is not about, from my understanding, test results, its about the purchasing of PED's, regardless of use. just purchasing, or owning/controlling a PED or banned substance is a suspendable offense, it doesnt even matter if you use it.

[3and2Fastball]

MLB is trying to claim that "lying" is an offense, thus it would be 100 games for 2 offenses. What a joke.

[burnzy24]

MLB is trying to claim that "lying" is an offense, thus it would be 100 games for 2 offenses. What a joke.

 

To show how much MLB truly has it out for Braun and A-Rod in trying to suspend them 100 games consider the Melky Cabrera situation. Not only did Melky deny using PED's but he also created a fake website to further is excuse for failing the drug test. MLB acutually had to investigate this website to see if it was legit including purchasing phony products from the website during the investigation. What Melky did went far and beyond anything Braun has done (that we have knowledge of) in terms of deceit and lying to MLB investigators yet he only got a 50 game suspension.

 

http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/07/10/if-melky-cabreras-phony-website-didnt-warrant-a-100-game-suspension-how-can-ryan-braun-get-one/

[kalle8]

also, part of the 100 game suspension is not about, from my understanding, test results, its about the purchasing of PED's, regardless of use. just purchasing, or owning/controlling a PED or banned substance is a suspendable offense, it doesnt even matter if you use it.

 

it just what i am saying and the thing i don't understand. if there are proves of a player purchasing PED's, the player must be fool.

 

i think EVERY player involved has cousin to take a trip to Florida (even once a month) to take a package, give a package in exchange, and take his/her talents to South beach for the week-end.

[thebruce44]

To go in cold and answer questions to a hostile investigator about Biogenesis material and details you know nothing about is probably not the best idea. Not without an attorney present. I have a feeling MLB seems to be bluffing on how strong their hand is.

 

I can see how this probably went down.

 

Them: We have witnesses and even other players who have given you up. Confess now and save us all the trouble.

 

Braun: 5th.

[thebruce44]

Wow..there sure is alot of unabashed defending of Braun and bashing of Selig on this page.

A lot of wild assumptions being made by a small number of posters assuming Braun's guilt, too...

 

Actually, around the internet its a very large number of people assuming Braun's guilt.

 

As cooler heads have said, we just don't know much right now. The FACTS we do know though, like the way this is being handled, are troubling to say the least.

[Thurston Fluff]

I'm sure the arbitrator Fredric Horowitz knows that if the ruling doesn't fall mlb's way he may be fired.

 

Just ask Shyam Das and the late Peter Seitz.

 

The way it is set up the players select one member, MLB another and the third has to be mutually agreed upon by both sides. The players union can fire that third guy as easily as management can.