Braun, Biogenesis and the Whole Crazy Thing

[crossface21]

MLB is trying to win the public opinion war against these guys. And they are doing a good job of it. By going after Braun, they're just trying to prove that they'll go after anyone no matter how big of star they are. And the thing is, they'll win that PR war. People are always going to associate Brand and PED's, no matter what. Even in MLB never even comes up with hard evidence on Braun. It's already pretty much a guarantee that Braun will not be a 1st, 2nd, or probably even 3rd ballot HOF'er.

[thebruce44]

Eh I will believe it when I see it. But if Braun actually did refuse to cooperate with MLB he is really making it hard for me to continue believing him.

 

I don't understand this line of thinking. If you were forced to meet with people who knowingly paid for any info they could get their hands on to try and nail you and suspend you from your livelihood, would you be willing to cooperate with them, considering they aren't at all interested in your innocence; all they want you to do is admit your guilt? What could Braun possibly say to get them off of his back? If he maintains his innocence MLB will say "You're lying! We're suspending you 100 games!" If Braun implicates himself by admitting PED use, MLB will say "Thanks for being honest! We're suspending you 100 games!" Anyone who was expecting Braun to cooperate is naive because either way he's damned if he does and damned if he doesn't. Silence, on the other hand, cannot be quoted.

 

If my professional and personal reputation were on the line--and if I were at risk of losing millions of dollars in salary--and if I was not guilty of violating a PED charge, I would answer all questions.

 

Though Braun may be getting advice from his lawyers, his union, his agent and/or his family to not answer questions.

 

There's too much that we don't know about this case to comment, including your speculation on the motives and actions of the investigators.

 

If my reputation and freedom were on the line because someone in law enforcement hated me and wanted nothing more than to put me behind bars while I was not guilty of a crime they wanted to charge me for I would answer zero questions unless charged. And any lawyer would advise me to do so.

[burnzy24]

Random thought here and feel free to tell me if I'm way off base but the longer this goes on I get the feeling that MLB will weakly attempt to suspend these players with full knowledge that the suspensions will not stick. This way they put on a big show acting tough on PED's while deflecting blame for their hands being tied on MLBPA/ the arbitrator/ (insert name of additional scapegoat here). I believe this because if the MLB actually had something on these guys this information would have been leaked rather than the fact that they players aren't talking. MLB is also probably mad that these guys won't talk so to throw suspension at them and to tarnish their names, especially for Braun, is probably just an added bonus for them.

[markedman5]

After being embarrassed when Braun got off last time I don't think MLB wants any part of a circus like that again. If they suspend him now it is because they firmly believe this time he will be found guilty by the panel. IMO

 

Braun said he would cooperate and now he isn't........might as well be pleading the 5th....

[Paul77]

The headline reads, "Braun refused to answer PED Questions", but the article says none of the 10 players MLB has met with have answered any questions. This sounds less like a Ryan Braun thing and more like a strategy all the players involved are taking.

[crossface21]

If MLB is out to get Braun more than others, why should Braun talk to them and give them anything that they can distort or embellish to get the suspension they didn't get the first time? All the players will stay quiet, including ARod who hasn't talked to MLB yet. And I'm sure it's not so much that they aren't cooperating, but following advice by their legal teams-their very pricey and expensive legal teams-to not tell MLB anything.

[DocLuna7]

So if I am reading the report correctly, MLB is looking at suspending Rodriguez and Braun for 100 games. 50 for the use of a banned substance and 50 for not cooperating. Later on in the same article from OTL is also says that MLB has not yet even spoken with ARod and had talked to Braun on the 29th. So in the ARod case how can they suspend someone for not cooperating who hasn't even been interviewed yet but who they are still planning on talking with?

[JackNicholson1974]

Eh I will believe it when I see it. But if Braun actually did refuse to cooperate with MLB he is really making it hard for me to continue believing him.

 

I don't understand this line of thinking. If you were forced to meet with people who knowingly paid for any info they could get their hands on to try and nail you and suspend you from your livelihood, would you be willing to cooperate with them, considering they aren't at all interested in your innocence; all they want you to do is admit your guilt? What could Braun possibly say to get them off of his back? If he maintains his innocence MLB will say "You're lying! We're suspending you 100 games!" If Braun implicates himself by admitting PED use, MLB will say "Thanks for being honest! We're suspending you 100 games!" Anyone who was expecting Braun to cooperate is naive because either way he's damned if he does and damned if he doesn't. Silence, on the other hand, cannot be quoted.

 

If my professional and personal reputation were on the line--and if I were at risk of losing millions of dollars in salary--and if I was not guilty of violating a PED charge, I would answer all questions.

 

Though Braun may be getting advice from his lawyers, his union, his agent and/or his family to not answer questions.

 

There's too much that we don't know about this case to comment, including your speculation on the motives and actions of the investigators.

 

I hate the be the bearer of bad news Jim, but in my line of work (criminal defense) often times their idea of "Cooperating" or "answering questions" means you admit what they allege. There is a very, very good chance that MLB came to Braun and said, "we have stuff against you, if you admit it we will suspend 50 games, if you deny 100" and in that instance Braun refused to confess to anything (because he is innocent) and MLB says he isnt Cooperating/answering questions. I see it quite a bit.

[TheCrew07]

The 100 game suspension has been the target since this story first broke which I think is a crock. They've been looking to double up the entire time for "lying". Not that I condone lying by any stretch but come on do we seriously expect the guilty to just say they are guilty? That's why there is supposedly a process in place to establish innocence or guilt.

 

MLB would look much better if they were just going for the standard 50 game first time offender penalty instead of 100. For whatever reason MLB likes to back itself into these lose/lose corners. Even if they have legit evidence and the players are in fact guilty the situation looks bad because of the extreme stance and tactics being brought to bear by MLB.

[ELCABALLO45]

ESPN making stuff up again? No way....

 

Also, if you're Ryan Braun why in the world would you want to talk to MLB about it? The same group that has been after you single handily since you proved a flaw in their system and embarrassed them? He took MLB to court and won. And ever since then MLB has done everything it could to attack Braun, from talking to his teammates and friends to not putting him on All Star game commercials early last year despite being the reigning MVP. MLB has attacked Braun over and over again and now they are mad he won't talk to them? Seems odd.

 

This is ESPN again trying to prove they were right this whole time. How many times have they reported he was going to be suspended? twice? three times? If MLB is going after Braun as hard as everyone indicates they are, the moment they think they have the smoking gun they would of suspended him. Not waited till next week, or the week after, or after the all star break. At this point I think they are just hoping their hearsay evidence and continually bringing it up in the media will be enough to suspend him because clearly they don't have anything else on him, IMO.

 

Good luck with that MLB.

[trwi7]

The 100 game suspension has been the target since this story first broke which I think is a crock. They've been looking to double up the entire time for "lying". Not that I condone lying by any stretch but come on do we seriously expect the guilty to just say they are guilty? That's why there is supposedly a process in place to establish innocence or guilt.

 

Exactly. What about all the players that went to arbitration and denied it but the arbitrator sided with MLB. They were technically "lying" trying to get off but they only got 50 game suspensions, not 100 for doing it and lying about it.

[Kelbysdaddy]

Braun shouldn't say a damn thing. The mlb (funny- when I typed mlb, my autocorrect inserted mob in its place) is just going to keep throwing ryans name out there to further smear his reputation because he made them look stupid. I'm really tired of all this stupid rumor leaking. Lmk when something that will stick is announced. How can they give him 100 games for a second failed test when he only failed one that was compromised.

[BarneyStinston]

To go in cold and answer questions to a hostile investigator about Biogenesis material and details you know nothing about is probably not the best idea. Not without an attorney present. I have a feeling MLB seems to be bluffing on how strong their hand is.

[BrewersSuperCollector]

I'm sure the arbitrator Fredric Horowitz knows that if the ruling doesn't fall mlb's way he may be fired.

 

Just ask Shyam Das and the late Peter Seitz.

[JimH5]

You're position on Braun is well documented. But being objective about this, what would you gain by answering all thw questions being asked, especially when MLB is running a kangaroo court? And considering all the leaks that have come out, why would you further risk anything else being leaked and then used against you to further sully your public reputation? The benefits of doing so do not outweigh the risks.

 

I don't know what was asked of him. None of us do. And we don't know if it's a kangaroo court or not. It's a diligent effort--or at least an effort to appear diligent--to chase drug use out of baseball. At least that's my opinion of it.

 

An innocent player might be well advised to handle things exactly as Braun has handled them. I just know what I would do if I were innocent. I would make statements, answer questions, shout it from the highest mountain & be absolutely clear to everyone what I did and didn't do. Otherwise, you let people think you're being evasive and that you have information that you're keeping secret for self preservation.

 

I don't know the source of the leaks. Again, none of us do. I just know that if MLB were handling things outside of what is outlined in the Basic Agreement, then the MLBPA would make a stink of it. Wouldn't they? Therefore, I don't think that MLB is the source of the information that keeps leaking out on the progress of these cases. Maybe it's a player, or an agent, or someone in the Players Association, or one of the witnesses. Of course it could also be someone from MLB--I don't know.

 

I hate the be the bearer of bad news Jim, but in my line of work (criminal defense) often times their idea of "Cooperating" or "answering questions" means you admit what they allege. There is a very, very good chance that MLB came to Braun and said, "we have stuff against you, if you admit it we will suspend 50 games, if you deny 100" and in that instance Braun refused to confess to anything (because he is innocent) and MLB says he isnt Cooperating/answering questions. I see it quite a bit.

 

Thanks for that, though I thought there was supposed to be a union lawyer present for all of these hearings. So I'm not sure if they would allow for that kind of "questioning". Though if it truly were presented to Braun in the way you described, it would make sense for him to be uncooperative.

 

If my reputation and freedom were on the line because someone in law enforcement hated me and wanted nothing more than to put me behind bars while I was not guilty of a crime they wanted to charge me for I would answer zero questions unless charged. And any lawyer would advise me to do so.

 

You are correct, and I am reminded that these cases are probably all going to arbitration, so while OTL drips out tiny droplets of information, nothing really matters until the arbiter rules on the evidence.

[3and2Fastball]

What a fiasco and disgrace! If all MLB has is the testimony of a drug dealer, suspending Braun would be a horrible thing to do. I already am embarrassed by the Selig statue at Miller Park. Yeah, he brought baseball back to Milwaukee, I get it, but wow what an abysmal commissioner he is!!!!

[brewmann04]

If Braun is not suspended I hope he goes after all involved that tried to smear his name. This is a complete joke and you telling me if MLB has rock solid proof why are they waiting especially to nail Braun. This is a farce with MLB and espn

[PKBadger]

I'm thoroughly disgusted with how MLB has handled this. I'm all for efforts to clean up the game of baseball, but to base your punishments on hearsay and implications that a player is "lying" because they either don't tell you the answer you want to hear or choose to remain silent is completely ridiculous.

 

Physical evidence of guilt, obtained through the testing procedures that were collectively bargained, is the only way to run this program without it being a farce.

 

Embarrassed to be a baseball fan.

 

I'll add that it has little to do with being a fan of Ryan Braun. None of these players should get railroaded - even if they are Cardinals.

[TooLiveBrew]

I'm thoroughly disgusted with how MLB has handled this. I'm all for efforts to clean up the game of baseball, but to base your punishments on hearsay and implications that a player is "lying" because they either don't tell you the answer you want to hear or choose to remain silent is completely ridiculous.

 

Physical evidence of guilt, obtained through the testing procedures that were collectively bargained, is the only way to run this program without it being a farce.

 

Embarrassed to be a baseball fan.

 

I'll add that it has little to do with being a fan of Ryan Braun. None of these players should get railroaded - even if they are Cardinals.

Whoa, whoa, whoa... let's not get crazy here!

[stoutdude04]

Funny you mention cardinals...Molina made a few bets through me, I wrote it down on a random notebook.(not really, but this os ridiculous if this is all they have)

[SenatorShriv]

Selig just can't shake the steroid blemish on his career... mostly through his own poor decisions. I think Selig has done great things for baseball as a whole but his legacy was going to be tarnished by the fact that he didn't crack down on steroids when he should have. This just reeks of trying to make up for past mistakes.

[kalle8]

Funny you mention cardinals...Molina made a few bets through me, I wrote it down on a random notebook.(not really, but this os ridiculous if this is all they have)

 

yes, but he never bet on Cardianl game!

 

 

this thing is beyond my thinking. it's unreal they can suspend without any evidence of use of PEDs

 

if i were in Brewers shoes i will be confused.

will I back my player and his appeal or would i prefer he sits in this awful season and i will get him "clean" after twentiysomething games in the 2014 season?

[SoupTown]

Do you think if you added the IQs of all the MLB administration you would equal that of a rock or a snail or a flea. I have never, never seen a group of grown men so stupid.

 

Ryan, do not say a thing. It is not even worth your breath to speak to sub-humans who have no comprehsion of anything.

[Patrick425]

Wow..there sure is alot of unabashed defending of Braun and bashing of Selig on this page. Perhaps you guys are correct. Perhaps it's a big which hunt with no credible evidence to warrant a suspension. However, perhaps you don't know what you don't know. Perhaps MLB has a mountain of very credible evidence against Braun and others (text messages, receipts, emails, etc).

 

I do know that on at least two occasions Braun has stated that he wants to fully cooperate with MLB. Well, if the recent report by MLB is true, he doesn't seem to be doing that.

 

Maybe Braun is innocent, maybe he's guilty. I don't know for certain, because I don't have all of the information and neither does anyone else posting in this thread. I guess, if I was forced to place a bet on it, I would have to bet on guilty, but I would not feel 100% certain that I would win that bet.

[3and2Fastball]

I am completely serious when I say/type this: If MLB tries to suspend the Brewers' franchise player based on a drug dealer having his name written on a piece of paper, with no evidence other than the testimony of said scumbag drug dealer, then the Brewers should take down that statue of Bud Selig outside of Miller Park.