Braun, Biogenesis and the Whole Crazy Thing

[Thurston Fluff]

I am certain that first time banning would reduce the amount of guys using it. If someone wants to take a calculated risk, which really is what the game has always been about, they will do it. If a borderline big leaguer believes that a substance will be the difference in making it to or not, he will certainly take the risk, even with the risk of a ban out there. Wiping out their stats would be pretty meaningless for this type of player. First time banning also does not stop an established guy who wants to extend his career either. Worst case scenario for him is that he has to retire and focus on the family a couple years early.

 

IF you look at the guys who got caught last season this seems to be true. Cabrera was an underachiever close to being out of baseball and Colon was old, broken down aging vet looking for a year or two more before he was done.

[TooLiveBrew]

I am certain that first time banning would reduce the amount of guys using it. If someone wants to take a calculated risk, which really is what the game has always been about, they will do it. If a borderline big leaguer believes that a substance will be the difference in making it to or not, he will certainly take the risk, even with the risk of a ban out there. Wiping out their stats would be pretty meaningless for this type of player. First time banning also does not stop an established guy who wants to extend his career either. Worst case scenario for him is that he has to retire and focus on the family a couple years early. Erasing stats does nothing to the average guy who maintains some type of anonymity in this game. In 10 years, who will remember these guys? Who will care about their stats?

Worst case, I'd say MLB would wind up banning an innocent player for life. Which is why a one-strike-and-you're-out policy will probably never be in place.

[BarneyStinston]

I have really seen no desire for MLB to help the possible innocent. They only want to find the guilty, or retry the innocent and find them guilty. It seems that they would gladly run over a few innocents to save the image of a clean game.

(In my previous post, meant to say that I think first time banning is a pointless measure)

[markedman5]

http://espn.go.com/new-york/story/_/id/9464246/ryan-braun-refused-answer-mlb-questions-biogenesis-clinic-sources-say?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

[fondybrewfan]

Eh I will believe it when I see it. But if Braun actually did refuse to cooperate with MLB he is really making it hard for me to continue believing him.

[markedman5]

Not acting like a guy with nothing to hide.....

[AZBrewCrew]

So far the only source I have seen with this information is the Entertainment and Sports Network.

[Dnye23]

So it looks like this is inevitable now. Hopefully the 100 games starts right away and not start at the beginning of next year for Braun. Please just bring this BS to a head at the all-star break. This investigation shouldn't be taking this long. This breaks my heart as a baseball fan, and not because of the players who are on 'the list'. Hopefully we can have some certainty about this whole garbage of a story, but I even doubt that. Seems like a big money hustle just to keep MLB 'clean' but it's just going to make the league and the commissioner look very bad.

[pogokat]

Suspend and be done with it

[Funketown]

Too bad they can't date the suspension to the date he first hit the DL...

 

Pr(User|Denial of use)=1.

[chadomac]

so sick of "they're going to suspend him" - just do it or shut up about it.

[saget]

Sounds exactly the last ten reports by OTL that he would be suspended. Still hasn't happened.

[Crew2323]

Eh I will believe it when I see it. But if Braun actually did refuse to cooperate with MLB he is really making it hard for me to continue believing him.

 

I don't understand this line of thinking. If you were forced to meet with people who knowingly paid for any info they could get their hands on to try and nail you and suspend you from your livelihood, would you be willing to cooperate with them, considering they aren't at all interested in your innocence; all they want you to do is admit your guilt? What could Braun possibly say to get them off of his back? If he maintains his innocence MLB will say "You're lying! We're suspending you 100 games!" If Braun implicates himself by admitting PED use, MLB will say "Thanks for being honest! We're suspending you 100 games!" Anyone who was expecting Braun to cooperate is naive because either way he's damned if he does and damned if he doesn't. Silence, on the other hand, cannot be quoted.

[brwrsfan]

Why wait a week to suspend him? If they've reached that conclusion just do it already. Even if they do, it still has to stand in an appeal.

[splitterpfj]

MLB tells Tom Haudricourt the ESPN report on Braun is premature, and no decisions have been made.

[reillymcshane]

I think there will be a lawsuit by the players once this goes down.

 

I'm not defending Braun or any of the guys, but there's a system to test for PEDs and drugs in place. Can you really suspend a player for PEDs when he hasn't actually failed a test? Is there a precedent for this? For instance, did baseball suspend players named in the Mitchell Report? No, they did not.

 

Perhaps the most recent collective bargaining agreement covers this specifically. Maybe it says something like 'buying or possessing PEDs will result in a suspension as if it was a failed drug test'.

 

My problem is that this is going to drag on a long time. Guys will fight it. The union might fight it.

 

Instead of trying to dig up dirt on what has happened, baseball needs to be proactive and go after what is going to happen in the future. They seem obsessed with putting some guys' heads on pikes. Perhaps they think that will prevent future abuse.

[thebruce44]

Why would Braun say anything to them? If they have something on him, go ahead and try to suspend him. If not, let him play.

 

Second, I LOVE how MLB isn't even bothering to try to do this behind closed doors anymore.

[JimH5]

Eh I will believe it when I see it. But if Braun actually did refuse to cooperate with MLB he is really making it hard for me to continue believing him.

 

I don't understand this line of thinking. If you were forced to meet with people who knowingly paid for any info they could get their hands on to try and nail you and suspend you from your livelihood, would you be willing to cooperate with them, considering they aren't at all interested in your innocence; all they want you to do is admit your guilt? What could Braun possibly say to get them off of his back? If he maintains his innocence MLB will say "You're lying! We're suspending you 100 games!" If Braun implicates himself by admitting PED use, MLB will say "Thanks for being honest! We're suspending you 100 games!" Anyone who was expecting Braun to cooperate is naive because either way he's damned if he does and damned if he doesn't. Silence, on the other hand, cannot be quoted.

 

If my professional and personal reputation were on the line--and if I were at risk of losing millions of dollars in salary--and if I was not guilty of violating a PED charge, I would answer all questions.

 

Though Braun may be getting advice from his lawyers, his union, his agent and/or his family to not answer questions.

 

There's too much that we don't know about this case to comment, including your speculation on the motives and actions of the investigators.

[Crew2323]

If my professional and personal reputation were on the line--and if I were at risk of losing millions of dollars in salary--and if I was not guilty of violating a PED charge, I would answer all questions.

 

Though Braun may be getting advice from his lawyers, his union, his agent and/or his family to not answer questions.

 

There's too much that we don't know about this case to comment, including your speculation on the motives and actions of the investigators.

 

The only thing speculative in my comments would be Braun's reason for not "cooperating." MLB paying off Bosch and Porter Fischer, as well as MLB's desire to suspend Braun has been reported as fact.

 

You're position on Braun is well documented. But being objective about this, what would you gain by answering all thw questions being asked, especially when MLB is running a kangaroo court? And considering all the leaks that have come out, why would you further risk anything else being leaked and then used against you to further sully your public reputation? The benefits of doing so do not outweigh the risks.

[reillymcshane]

Interesting thought.

 

What if the suspensions happen, and the union decides to fight with a walk off.

 

The union can claim, among other things, that:

 

- the Biogensis affair is a witch hunt

- that players are being accused and convicted based on the testimony of dubious individuals

- that innocent players are going to be tainted

- that it sets a dangerous precedent, allowing baseball to suspend players for drug use without actually failing a test

 

Ultimately, the union can say to their membership something like:

 

'Sure some of these guys are probably guilty. Yes, it sucks that they are cheating and getting away with it - and it affects you. But if one innocent player is suspended, it's a tragedy. Do you want they next suspension to be you?'

 

Just a wacky thought.

[TooLiveBrew]

MLB tells Tom Haudricourt the ESPN report on Braun is premature, and no decisions have been made.

Surprise, surprise

 

ESPN can go... well, I'd rather not get banned over some language.

[Thurston Fluff]

I'm not defending Braun or any of the guys, but there's a system to test for PEDs and drugs in place. Can you really suspend a player for PEDs when he hasn't actually failed a test? Is there a precedent for this? For instance, did baseball suspend players named in the Mitchell Report? No, they did not.

 

I believe they can if they can show proof they did use them. The Mitchell report was about PED use before it the bans were outlined and implemented so it didn't cover them. I was for MLB going beyond testing and opening up an investigate arm to vet out cheaters. I looked at testing kind of like I look at DNA in crime investigations. It makes your case virtually fool proof if you follow protocol, but it is hardly the only thing you should rely on to find criminals. That said I can't say I am a fan of their tactics. Threatening someone with the choice of long legal battles they have no way of paying for or telling them what they want to hear seems little more than beating a confession out of someone. I want Braun to pay if he really did do it. Though at this point I think they botched it so badly we can never be sure if he did.

[torts]

whats it called when you throw the same thing out there a million times hoping that one of the times it sticks for that "AH HAA!" moment? Thats what OTL is doing.

[rondoman]

Tom H has an article on JSOnline just posted:

 

http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/214817101.html

[SRB]

Excuse me? Under what provision in the CBA would they be a able to suspend him 50-100 games for refusing to answer questions. There is no way that would survive an appeal. This is either (1) totally made up; (2) a hopefully ineffective ploy to put pressure on players; (3) a bad faith move by MLB because they know that even if Braun successfully appeals a second (failed) suspension will permanently tar him.