Braun, Biogenesis and the Whole Crazy Thing

[brwrsfan]

I understand. That was part of my point. That this "new" story by TMZ isn't really a story. This guy has been there all along, he's shared some evidence - both with the newspaper and MLB, and that unless he has something else that he previously failed to mention to either of those parties, the TMZ report seems way, way overblown.

 

Couple other interesting reads about it:

 

http://www.sbnation.com/mlb/2013/7/2/4486338/mlb-biogenesis-interview-porter-fischer-records-documents

 

http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/06/21/the-biogenesis-investigation-turns-into-a-dirty-harry-movie/

[brewcrewdue80]

Sweet 100 players. Get them all MLB. That's 4 team's worth you have to go suspend. Suspend all 100, 100games like you want to Braun. I can't wait for one team to have 10players suspended 100games...( I hope not the Brewers) but yeah, if they are going to go after ARod and Braun and realize the ramnifications that could be dug up in doing so, I want them to be forced to suspend every player on that list 100games if it's 100players now.

[brewmann04]

I agree suspend all 100 not just one or Two IF they are all guilty in the first palce. soundslike alot of hearsay

[kalle8]

the thing i won't ever get is the list of names.

 

if I was selling banned sustance to anyone my "shoplist" will be something like:

 

remetee8...30 dollars

milkman....20 dollars

cameron diaz13....40 dollars

..and so on..

[brewmann04]

Yes i wonder if they have real names or Pics of the guys buying it because it all sounds phony and made up

[brewcrewdue80]

I agree suspend all 100 not just one or Two IF they are all guilty in the first palce. soundslike alot of hearsay

 

I just look at it as, 100 players would be 1/12 of all 30teams 40man rosters. And you would think certain teams would have more players involved(sharing) than others. Avg is 3 per team but if it's 100+ on this list you just know at least 8 or more players are going to be listed that ARE ON THE SAME TEAM.

 

Imagine the Yankees/Red Sox both being those teams. How's that work for them? If the suspensions are handed out and one of them lost 8 players while making a playoff run? And I mention those two teams because let's remember, ARod on Yankees. Manny Ramirez Red Sox.

adding: And I mention this because how do the fans take seeing 8players removed from their team? If I were a ticketholder I'd demand refunds from MLB for forcing a AAA team to be put out on the field. And that my ticket should be priced accordingly.

 

And, on top of this let's go ahead and put Braun on the guilt list. You know who else now could be suspect on the Brewers for using steroids? Corey Hart. A man who can't recover from offseason workouts, something Steroids assists in right? How do you break down both knees in the same year through workouts?

 

It's speculation, but steroids as we know was thought of as helping players recover. Anyone take a look across MLB this season and see more injured players vs normal?

 

I guess 100players or more are missing out on their steroids right?

[brewmann04]

On a lighter side we really can't say this group of Brewers are into PED not with they way they have been playing.

[markedman5]

http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/9444635/biogenesis-case-huge-deal-players-association

[sveumrules]

So here's what I'm trying to figure out. MLB claims to have the best drug testing program in all of professional sports. Reports indicate "over 100" players are listed in Biogenesis records. So how come only 3 players have tested positive in the last calendar year?

[TheCrew07]

Because the cheaters are always ahead of the testers? See Lance Armstrong, Track & Field, Barry Bonds, etc.

[sveumrules]

Sure they are, that's a given.

 

My point is by going through this whole investigation MLB is really compromising the integrity of their testing program. You claim to have the best of the best, yet you're only catching about 2-3% of the cheaters.

 

I personally have always thought MLB's drug testing program was nothing more than a dog and pony show put out there to give the public the impression that the game is clean. The results of this "investigation" would seem to prove that is indeed the case.

[SRB]

http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/9444635/biogenesis-case-huge-deal-players-association

 

This article is infuriating. The public are the ones who are outraged by PED use? No, it's irresponsible "news" outlets like ESPN that manufacture false outrage that keep bringing these stories up. And if you shove something down the public's throat long enough I guess people are going to be duped into feeling outraged.

 

*Edit* And another thing, but I'm tired of frauds like Frank Thomas acting all high and might about PEDs when the odds are better than not that he was using to. Please name another player in the history of the game with Frank Thomas's physique who wasn't taking something. Though I guess he needs to shout the loudest so they don't keep him out of the Hall of Fame too.

[Baldkin]

http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/9444635/biogenesis-case-huge-deal-players-association

 

This article is infuriating. The public are the ones who are outraged by PED use? No, it's irresponsible "news" outlets like ESPN that manufacture false outrage that keep bringing these stories up. And if you shove something down the public's throat long enough I guess people are going to be duped into feeling outraged.

 

*Edit* And another thing, but I'm tired of frauds like Frank Thomas acting all high and might about PEDs when the odds are better than not that he was using to. Please name another player in the history of the game with Frank Thomas's physique who wasn't taking something. Though I guess he needs to shout the loudest so they don't keep him out of the Hall of Fame too.

 

Thomas was 6'5" and 240 or so. He wasn't really that big. There are hundreds of college football players every year who have his physique.

Jim Thome has his physique. Adam Dunn is even bigger than Thomas was. Dave Kingman was built similarly.

 

I still don't understand the anger over all this, considering the overwhelming reason that statistics jumped so much is that MLB changed the baseball.

 

Remember, nothing is alleged to--or can have--happened to all of MLB over some one or two seasons: the claim is that PEDs were being used at a slowly but steadily increasing rate (and thus "distorting records") from very roughly 1980 through the present. Were that so, or anything like it, we would expect to see a clear long-term uptrend during this period. But we don't: we see a nearly flat line that, if anything, slopes slightly down. The "boost" just isn't there. But that doesn't seem to stop anyone from talking about it.

[SRB]

Thomas was 6'5" and 240 or so. He wasn't really that big. There are hundreds of college football players every year who have his physique.

Jim Thome has his physique. Adam Dunn is even bigger than Thomas was. Dave Kingman was built similarly.

There's a difference between being a big dude and having comic books arms. Frank Thomas had those comic book arms that strangely only seemed to exist in the 1990s and that no era has had before or since. Adam Dunn and Dave Kingman look/looked nothing like Thomas.

[RockCoCougars]

Frank Thomas was one of the first players to publicly campaign for steroid testing way back in the 90's, I believe... to the MLBPA's chagrin. Nothing would surprise me in all of this, but I would be pretty surprised if he was a juicer.

[Eye Black]

Thomas was 6'5" and 240 or so. He wasn't really that big. There are hundreds of college football players every year who have his physique.

Jim Thome has his physique. Adam Dunn is even bigger than Thomas was. Dave Kingman was built similarly.

There's a difference between being a big dude and having comic books arms. Frank Thomas had those comic book arms that strangely only seemed to exist in the 1990s and that no era has had before or since. Adam Dunn and Dave Kingman look/looked nothing like Thomas.

 

Apparently they still grow like that in Cuba...

 

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-hWRpOrBTg20/UCkVr5yWkRI/AAAAAAAANa4/AH0PRuOdiLI/s1600/puigyasiel.jpg

 

http://ww3.hdnux.com/photos/20/04/16/4211614/3/628x471.jpg

[nate82]

Thomas was 6'5" and 240 or so. He wasn't really that big. There are hundreds of college football players every year who have his physique.

Jim Thome has his physique. Adam Dunn is even bigger than Thomas was. Dave Kingman was built similarly.

There's a difference between being a big dude and having comic books arms. Frank Thomas had those comic book arms that strangely only seemed to exist in the 1990s and that no era has had before or since. Adam Dunn and Dave Kingman look/looked nothing like Thomas.

 

You can add Bo Jackson to that list also along with a lot of other players. For Thomas's size his arms were not all that big and is actually about average for what you would see for a football player for his size right now. For example Clay Matthews is about the same size as Frank Thomas are you saying that Clay Matthews is also using steroids as his arms are about the same as what Thomas was during his peak years.

[3and2Fastball]

For example Clay Matthews is about the same size as Frank Thomas are you saying that Clay Matthews is also using steroids as his arms are about the same as what Thomas was during his peak years.

 

Anyone that would be surprised that Clay Matthews is on steroids is really (in my opinion) naive. Wouldn't shock me if 1/2 of the NFL is juiced up

[nate82]

For example Clay Matthews is about the same size as Frank Thomas are you saying that Clay Matthews is also using steroids as his arms are about the same as what Thomas was during his peak years.

 

Anyone that would be surprised that Clay Matthews is on steroids is really (in my opinion) naive. Wouldn't shock me if 1/2 of the NFL is juiced up

 

I would increase that to about 70% of the NFL is juiced up. If anyone thinks MLB testing is a joke just look at the NFL's testing policy it is more along the lines of MLB's policy in the 80's through the 90's.

[SoupTown]

"I can't wait for one team to have 10players suspended 100games...( I hope not the Brewers)"

 

Can I PLEASE nominate 10 Brewers to be suspended.

[Bombers]

@AdamMcCalvy: Ryan Braun is hitting oppo homers in BP. If he gets through this today, could be back in #Brewers lineup in the next couple of days.

 

Please DFA Yuni

[Thurston Fluff]

Frank Thomas was one of the first players to publicly campaign for steroid testing way back in the 90's, I believe... to the MLBPA's chagrin. Nothing would surprise me in all of this, but I would be pretty surprised if he was a juicer.

 

This. He was always very vocal about it. People can be naturally big and can get bigger gradually just by working out. What they rarely can do is be that big and remain injury free as they age without chemical aid. He broke down like normal big guys do.

[DocLuna7]

Frank Thomas was one of the first players to publicly campaign for steroid testing way back in the 90's, I believe... to the MLBPA's chagrin. Nothing would surprise me in all of this, but I would be pretty surprised if he was a juicer.

 

This. He was always very vocal about it. People can be naturally big and can get bigger gradually just by working out. What they rarely can do is be that big and remain injury free as they age without chemical aid. He broke down like normal big guys do.

 

Thomas also played football at Auburn and did not suddenly put on a ton of muscle mass in the middle of his career. He was a big dude from the start. If I had to guess which 90's era stars were not using steroids it would be Griffey and Thomas.

[Schlitz001]

My point is by going through this whole investigation MLB is really compromising the integrity of their testing program. You claim to have the best of the best, yet you're only catching about 2-3% of the cheaters.

 

I personally have always thought MLB's drug testing program was nothing more than a dog and pony show put out there to give the public the impression that the game is clean. The results of this "investigation" would seem to prove that is indeed the case.

 

If the MLB really wants to get serious about testing they should ban first time cheaters for life. Additionally they should test more often with blood samples and store the samples permanently. If a suspicion arises in the distant future about a player they can pull an old sample and use new technologies to test the sample. If it tests positive, banned for life from the game and all stats wipe from the record books. This would be expensive and have a lot of backlash, but it would reduce the amount used.

[BarneyStinston]

My point is by going through this whole investigation MLB is really compromising the integrity of their testing program. You claim to have the best of the best, yet you're only catching about 2-3% of the cheaters.

 

I personally have always thought MLB's drug testing program was nothing more than a dog and pony show put out there to give the public the impression that the game is clean. The results of this "investigation" would seem to prove that is indeed the case.

 

If the MLB really wants to get serious about testing they should ban first time cheaters for life. Additionally they should test more often with blood samples and store the samples permanently. If a suspicion arises in the distant future about a player they can pull an old sample and use new technologies to test the sample. If it tests positive, banned for life from the game and all stats wipe from the record books. This would be expensive and have a lot of backlash, but it would reduce the amount used.

 

I am certain that first time banning would not reduce the amount of guys using it. If someone wants to take a calculated risk, which really is what the game has always been about, they will do it. If a borderline big leaguer believes that a substance will be the difference in making it to or not, he will certainly take the risk, even with the risk of a ban out there. Wiping out their stats would be pretty meaningless for this type of player. First time banning also does not stop an established guy who wants to extend his career either. Worst case scenario for him is that he has to retire and focus on the family a couple years early. Erasing stats does nothing to the average guy who maintains some type of anonymity in this game. In 10 years, who will remember these guys? Who will care about their stats? New technologies for cheating will generally always keep up with testing. MLB should be focusing on aspects of the game and substances that harm human health rather than being obsessed with someone getting some competitive advantage by healing or strengthening faster.