Braun, Biogenesis and the Whole Crazy Thing

[pebadger]

There is so much about PED use that we don't know because enough actual well-funded legitimate scientific research hasn't been done. There is a lot of knowledge or, or at least seemingly strongly supported conjecture about how PEDs work among the underground that deals in this stuff, but there is a big difference between that and a sort of public database of knowledge built on years of coordinated studies. There IS knowledge out there, but there is a whole lot of quackery, too, and it's virtually impossible to distinguish between the two. Everybody into this stuff has their "guy" who touts his knowledge and who has a cadre of supporters, but lots of them turn out to be nothing more than snake oil salesmen. Players are probably the least qualified of any of us to really know what's going on with this stuff, and I say this knowing that American public pends tens of millions of dollars a year on things like 'Extenze' and that gets taken in by scams like Bernie Madoff's. We want to think there are secret powers out there that we can access if we have enough money. If I have enough money I can just buy a bigger unit. I can just buy unreasonably high returns on my investment. I can just buy weight loss. I can just buy youth. In the same vein, these guys think they can just buy performance. To a certain degree they can, and there are a whole bunch of people out there looking to cash in huge on that belief. As always, the real messes are the ones that contain a kernel of truth in a sea of misinformation and distortion.

 

Going back to a mention of the "prohibited substance" list I made a day or so ago ties into this. Things are added and removed from the list at times, often because testers will find things that are being taken and assume that there is a sinister reason they are being taken. There may be a reason people are taking something in that people BELIEVE it helps them, regardless of whether it actuall does or not. And if they are taking it to help them, is that sinister if the substance isn't already on the list? If you take something that's on the list, serve a suspension for getting caught taking it, and then the substance is taken off the list in the future because it's not a PED oo even a PED masking agent, what does that mean for your legacy? The suspension is clearly earned because you broke a rule that was on the books, but does that make you a "cheater" since you never really gained any advantage? What if "your guy" is giving you something that you believe isn't on the up-and-up and you improve merely due to a placebo effect? Isn't the intent to cheat just as important as actually cheating, especially when you take an over action that you honestly beleive is a dishonest attempt to gain advantage?

 

For now (subject to change as evidence changes), I generally take Braun at his word, understanding full well that he could be lying about everything and also understanding that he might even be lying now a little bit abut certain things for certain reasons while being honest on the big issue. Some people have trouble with that last part, but in my experience with people in tough situations, that just the way lots of human beings operate.

 

If I didn't take that position on Braun for now, I'd blindly speculate that if Braun was doing something wrong, he was microdosing T and something went wrong with the process. Microdosing is "supposed to" (see above for qualifiers) have value as a sort of maintenance and recovery methodology. Microodosing is not "supposed to" give you the more commonly understood long-term effects (and side effects) of T use.

 

It sure woud be nice to have some actual factual data to be working with from his test result. That said, I don't feel like its owed to the public, but with the cat out of the bag in terms of confidentiality I have a bit of a problem with MLB using the non-disclosure rules as both a shield for themselves and a club against Braun.

[thebruce44]

Now you're just making stuff up. That is absolutely not true at all. Steroids add bulk, and tons of slow twitch muscles, and generate almost all of their additional mass in the upper body, when in baseball, the overwhelming majority of power comes from the lower body.

 

I have a very hard time believing steroids or PEDs in general selectively add only slow twitch muscles and mass to the upper body. There are a lot of different banned substances. A lot of them even reduce fat more than add muscle which in and of itself can make you faster.

 

From personal experience, I've taken some prohormones for various personal reasons and the one particular lift that went through the roof was squats. I'm glad you provided sources, but this just isn't logical.

[3and2Fastball]

Steroids aren't only used for strength. They are used to recover quicker from injuries, to keep oneself at 100% throughout a long hard grueling season, to give one a lift in the dog-days of August. It ain't just about muscles

 

I'm just still wondering about all the amphetamine users from the 50's-70's who used "Greenies" for the same reasons and are now in the Hall of Fame....not trying to argue for Steroid use, by the way, but hypocrisy abounds throughout MLB history on just what is "performance enhancing" and which eras we bury our collective head in the sand over

[thebruce44]

The name is escaping me, but wasn't there an Olympian, a woman I believe, who actually had her case reversed after years because her sample had a false positive due to not being stored properly?

[DannoMac21]

Buster Olney is a tool. Via MLBTradeRumors.com

 

ESPN's Buster Olney appeared on the Mut and Merloni radio show in Boston to discuss the Biogenesis scandal yesterday, and WEEI's Kevin Dillon has the highlights. Olney said that if Ryan Braun is proven to have used performance enhancing drugs, he will become the Lance Armstrong of Major League Baseball given his adamant protest last February when he won his appeal of a positive test. Braun called the test collector into question and "tried to ruin this person," in Olney's words.

[vegasbrewcrew1993]

Vegas i thinking RR will finish out the Year and then the whole Staff will be gone. I am dissapointed in Krantiz he looks unintrested and their been no improvement in the starters.

I think if they could fire the Bullpen coach when they struggled why not Kramitz. They also nned to sit Braun down for a week and let him heal he not doing the club any good now and it also not like we in a playoff race.

 

at this point probably. i can't remember the last time attanasio fired a manager in june. at the end of the year i am expecting changes. for some reason thouhg it wouldn't surprise me if RRR is back. i get the feeling that attanasio really likes him.

[TooLiveBrew]

The name is escaping me, but wasn't there an Olympian, a woman I believe, who actually had her case reversed after years because her sample had a false positive due to not being stored properly?

Diane Modahl (a UK track & field athlete)

[xisxisxis]

See post 301 from LouisEly for a link to her story.

[The stache]

The attorney for one of MLB's alleged witnesses is not happy, not happy at all.

 

http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_/id/9354195/attorney-key-potential-witness-biogenesis-case-accuses-mlb-bullying-client

 

Martin Beguiristain, attorney for Carlos Acevado:

 

"What they have done is made a very strong enemy. Carlos Acevedo is a very strong enemy. He is a broke, broke, broke little nothing individual. But boy, what they have done is extremely impolite. He doesn't have any money. He doesn't have anything to lose. It is not good to bully somebody that has nothing."

 

I really don't think this is going to end well for MLB, guys. Their Draconian tactics are going to backfire badly.

[BrewCrewForever]

If Braun is lying, he is going to look incredibly bad if real evidence comes out against him. And as much as I hate to agree with Buster Olney on anything, he will look like the Lance Armstrong of MLB. But I would think if he did do something he would not be so upfront about saying he did nothing, and the truth has not changed, etc. Why not go the no comment route? Or beat around the bush? Like many other players have. He has been stead fast this entire time that he never took anything and if he did, would admit it. I just hope as a fan of his, this doesn't blowup in his face.

[Funketown]

He would be Lance Armstrong Extra Lite. Throwing the collector under the bus was bad, but Lance Armstrong ruined a lot of careers, and by all means was a pretty brutal guy. What Braun did was bad (assuming he was even partially dishonest) but nowhere in the realm Of Lance.

[RobertR]

At least Braun didn't lie under oath before Congress.

 

One can argue that Selig can't claim that.

[brettac1]

At this point, I am just hoping this wraps up quickly so he can serve as much of the suspension (hopefully all of it) during this season.

[Invader3K]

At this point, I am just hoping this wraps up quickly so he can serve as much of the suspension (hopefully all of it) during this season.

 

I firmly believe there will be no suspensions for anyone. It's becoming more and more clear by he day that MLB has nothing and is just blustering.

[pebadger]

He would be Lance Armstrong Extra Lite. Throwing the collector under the bus was bad, but Lance Armstrong ruined a lot of careers, and by all means was a pretty brutal guy. What Braun did was bad (assuming he was even partially dishonest) but nowhere in the realm Of Lance.

 

Olney's quote says a lot more about Olney than it does about Braun. It either means Buster is completely ignorant about Lance Armstrong, has a gigantic agenda to smear Ryan Braun, or both. I guess in the alternative it could mean that Buster has a whole lot of verifiable information that isn't public, but then I guess that would make him a lousy reporter.

 

You can reasonably believe Braun is "guilty", but the Armstrong comparison is ludicrous.

[narwhalattack]

At this point, I am just hoping this wraps up quickly so he can serve as much of the suspension (hopefully all of it) during this season.

 

I firmly believe there will be no suspensions for anyone. It's becoming more and more clear by he day that MLB has nothing and is just blustering.

 

So basically MLB is North Korea.

[brettac1]

At this point, I am just hoping this wraps up quickly so he can serve as much of the suspension (hopefully all of it) during this season.

 

I firmly believe there will be no suspensions for anyone. It's becoming more and more clear by he day that MLB has nothing and is just blustering.

I don't think there's anything "clear" about this whole situation.

[Invader3K]

At this point, I am just hoping this wraps up quickly so he can serve as much of the suspension (hopefully all of it) during this season.

 

I firmly believe there will be no suspensions for anyone. It's becoming more and more clear by he day that MLB has nothing and is just blustering.

I don't think there's anything "clear" about this whole situation.

 

Well, judging by how they've acted during this whole situation (going back to last year), I feel it is. If I was a gambling man, I'd bet on Braun not being suspended over him serving any games at this point.

[thebruce44]

At this point, I am just hoping this wraps up quickly so he can serve as much of the suspension (hopefully all of it) during this season.

 

I firmly believe there will be no suspensions for anyone. It's becoming more and more clear by he day that MLB has nothing and is just blustering.

I don't think there's anything "clear" about this whole situation.

 

Sure there is. Its clear MLB intends to get revenge through further public shaming of Braun since he showed the flaws in their drug testing program.

[crossface21]

I really believe MLB knows they don't have much on Braun. They are holding a grudge and pissed off that he beat the system the first time. Just by linking Braun to the clinic, they are already waging a public opinion battle against him. Here in WI, we will pay attention and if they come up with nothing, we will know Braun is innocent and got screwed. However, in the national realm, just having his named linked makes him guilty until proven innocent, but by the time he's proven innocent, people aren't paying attention anymore and just think of him as guilty by association.

[crossface21]

To me, it just sucks because if he's never suspended for anything, in 20 years when he's up for his first HOF ballot, there are gonna be guys that don't vote for him based purely on a public opinion war by MLB against Braun. He'll end up being another one of these guys that gets less than 50% of the vote when there's been nothing against him.

 

Now before people attack for me saying nothing against him, let me preface that by saying we may never know what happened in that first incident, whether he took something or not. His lawyers chose to take the route that they thought had the best chance of getting him off-chain of custody. Simply denying he didn't take anything may not have had the best odds of beating the system.

 

Now with all that said, do I think Braun took something? Based on everything I've heard, it's more than 50% he did. But the fact is, he didn't get suspended. Personally, I'm so darn tired of hearing all of it, I say dedicate a new wing to the HOF for after 1995 players and let guys take all the supplements they want. It's their body, let them suffer later in life with the after effects. Just entertain me and let Braun continue to hit clutch HR's that win division titles.

[endaround]

Steroids aren't only used for strength. They are used to recover quicker from injuries, to keep oneself at 100% throughout a long hard grueling season, to give one a lift in the dog-days of August. It ain't just about muscles

 

I'm just still wondering about all the amphetamine users from the 50's-70's who used "Greenies" for the same reasons and are now in the Hall of Fame....not trying to argue for Steroid use, by the way, but hypocrisy abounds throughout MLB history on just what is "performance enhancing" and which eras we bury our collective head in the sand over

 

Except they were also using steroids. This is always ignored. Tom House admitted that steroid use among pitchers was rampant in the 1970s in order to be able to recover quickly. Jose Cancesco just didn't accidentally sit on needle in Oakland in 1989, there is a history to reach that point.

 

Braun's case showed how slap dashed the whole drug testing process was. And not just for baseball, but for all sports. (Not having dedicated couriers to save a few thousand dollars a year is insane when we are talking about millions of dollars of income and revenue.) MLB and Drug Warrior Inc were embarrassed and will do all they can to get Braun likely for the rest of his life.

[TURBO]

Just read the latest, and the witch hunt continues...

 

Jon Heyman of CBS Sports reports that people who have spoken with MLB investigators feel it's likely that "at least some" suspensions will be issued in the Biogenesis case.

 

MLB has begun interviewing players associated with the case, though they have yet to talk to Ryan Braun or Alex Rodriguez, seemingly because they want to gather enough evidence before confronting them. Interestingly, Heyman notes that MLB officials believe the league's Joint Drug Agreement may allow it to announce suspensions before any appeal process because the names involved have already been leaked. The MLBPA obviously wouldn't be happy with that. While Braun and Rodriguez have garnered most of the attention in the case, Melky Cabrera, Bartolo Colon, Yasmani Grandal, Nelson Cruz, Jhonny Peralta, Everth Cabrera, Francisco Cervelli, Jesus Montero are among the other players who have been connected to the now-shuttered clinic.

 

Source: CBSSports.com

[brewmann04]

well they did that the firsat time with Braun before any appeal.

[JohnBriggs12]

"they have yet to talk to Ryan Braun or Alex Rodriguez, seemingly because they want to gather enough evidence before confronting them"

 

So lets see the lesser "targets" are already being "interviewed"? Does that mean they actually have evidence against them but are having trouble finding enough evidence to confront their main target? Or does it mean their main targets are being treated differently? Either way, this is very fishy.

 

Obviously MLB has leaked this info to keep the story in the news. Once again, no news has been broken but they still get in shots at Braun nonetheless.