Braun, Biogenesis and the Whole Crazy Thing

[JohnBriggs12]

ESPN has been showing the video interview from five weeks ago with Bosch where Bosch states (paraphrase) that he had no contact with Braun and provided some information to Braun's attorneys.

 

Lets say Bosch changes his story completely to MLB and that's used to initiate the suspension process. What lawyer isn't going to show the interview contradicting himself to the person hearing his appeal to a suspension threat? Now having interviewed this guy 5 weeks ago with this result, one would think ESPN would not trumpet this story as if suspensions where a done deal. But that's ESPN (ABC). Never let facts interfere with your narrative.

 

MLB surely knows of this interview also. They surely know that conflicting testimony from the same guy won't hold up. But whether they suspend him or not, they seem determined that Braun is muddied as much as possible.

[bjkrautk]

MLB surely knows of this interview also. They surely know that conflicting testimony from the same guy won't hold up. But whether they suspend him or not, they seem determined that Braun is muddied as much as possible.

 

All the more reason to continue to leak Braun's name to ESPN, who have been more than willing to make the claim that a suspension was imminent. Braun has been twice-convicted in the Court of public opinion, whereas MLB has not been able to make the same charges stick in terms of actual evidence.

 

I don't know if he did it or not. I'm sure his legal team is as eager to present Braun as the victim of retaliation by MLB's enforcement wing as they are looking to tear into Bosch if he flips his story. Regardless, I'm content to wait until a suspension is announced by MLB (which would presumably be after the appeals process is concluded) before worrying about it.

 

 

That being said...the sad part is that given the length and nature of the appeals process, a suspension could carry in to next season; I'd much prefer to get the horrible out of the way during an already horrible year, if it really is inevitable.

[homer]

I think Braun will go on a tear after this...just like he did last season.

[torts]

http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/blog_article/does-mlb-have-a-case-this-time/

 

fantastic article written on hardballtimes by Eugene Freedman about just how difficult this will be for MLB to win. I suggest everyone reading it if you have time

[brewmann04]

Thanks

[brewcrewdue80]

Thinking outside of being a Homer and wanting to believe he's innocent and that MLB is after Braun for winning that appeal.

 

In the Biogenesis outcome. Who stands to gain the most from it?

 

I'll answer that for you and now you can begin to read in to what this is really about.

 

The NYYankees. and the Accompanying Ban that goes with ARod's guilt in this.

Money. One can just fathom a guess, but I'm going to estimate a quarter of Billion dollars the Yankees save by getting ARod Banned before the end of the season. What more motive does the biggest money maker in the Sport need to have to push MLB to pursue to no end. I'd bet behind the scenes they are paying for it too since a few million or tens is nothing compared to the Couple Hundred saved by losing ARod.

 

Why 250million? Well 130million or more in ARod's contract alone. Then add to it the whole Luxury Tax threshold that 25mil coming off the books just may be what they need to do it. It certainly Helps. That restarts the tax rate when they go over again not at the peak rate they are looking at come 2014.

 

This is about ARod and Braun is just a piece caught up in it.

[homer]

I think being a homer is just fine. Of course, my username is homer so I'm biased.

[rwa12]

I think with the amount of insider access ESPN is given, if Bosch were going to back up Braun, they would know. MLB, if they are using ESPN for a mouthpiece, wouldn't set themselves up to look stupid again, I wouldn't think.

 

I'm a realist about this, and I think I have been from the start. After reading through the last few pages, some things intrigue me.

 

Braun was never found innocent, and like the word or not; he won his acquittal on a technicality. No one argued that the sample wasn't his, they argued that baseball didn't follow the process to the letter. The facts are that urine samples don't sprout synthetic testosterone when kept in a cool basement over a weekend. The test was positive, whoever took that test was on PEDs. Braun took that test. His lawyers were just smart enough to beat the system. This wasn't a conspiracy, no one was out to get him, he failed and found a way to beat the system. I know this is a "say it ain't so" moment, but it is what it is. Guilty people are acquitted every day because of failure of procedure. It doesn't make them innocent, it means the means of proving their guilt were not handled according to procedure. Regardless if that procedure is relevant. Good for him, good for Brewers baseball.

 

This is an emotional topic, especially among super fans. He is the face of the franchise, we are heavily invested in him both financially and emotionally. If your opinion is that of guilt, you must be a hater. If you think he's innocent, you're a blind homer. Whoever said there is no shade of gray, is probably mostly right. My personal opinion, I think he used steroids to get healthy; which are their designed purpose. It's just against the rules, which I think are ridiculous, but probably necessary.

 

As far as the current situation. Here's what doesn't make sense to me. Why is Braun's name on Bosch's books if he was a paid consultant? Braun wasn't gathering consultants, his lawyers were. They would have been the one to contact, and given their quality, they would have ensured his name was nowhere near those books. They also would have paid him, to ensure something like this doesn't happen. He doesn't have a public defender, he has extremely smart attorneys, the first to figure out how to beat MLB's system. They knew there would be backlash, they knew their sources would most likely be contacted...but they stiffed a shady PED pusher, and left Braun exposed? Really? Lawyers don't run around using their clients names, I don't even think that's legal. In all likelihood, if they did contact Bosch as a possible witness, the law firm would have a copy of the contract, and this never would have been a problem. I would think that when this information was released months ago, his lawyers would have come forward with this, and he would have been cleared, much like Gio Gonzalez was.

[torts]

if you had the option to the following two arguments for your appeal, what would you take?

 

a.) appeal the drug test result (which has never been overturned)

b.) appeal the process of collecting the urine sample for testing (which has never been appealed before)

 

why on allah's green earth would you argue both points when all you have to do is argue the second? we dont know the test results validity to whether or not braun actually used PED's because it is not was not necessary to win the case. It is complete speculation on all sides to say definitively that Braun 100% used/didnt use PED's because they didnt argue that angle in the appeal hearing.

[brwrsfan]

I think with the amount of insider access ESPN is given, if Bosch were going to back up Braun, they would know. MLB, if they are using ESPN for a mouthpiece, wouldn't set themselves up to look stupid again, I wouldn't think.

 

I'm a realist about this, and I think I have been from the start. After reading through the last few pages, some things intrigue me.

 

Braun was never found innocent, and like the word or not; he won his acquittal on a technicality. No one argued that the sample wasn't his, they argued that baseball didn't follow the process to the letter. The facts are that urine samples don't sprout synthetic testosterone when kept in a cool basement over a weekend. The test was positive, whoever took that test was on PEDs. Braun took that test. His lawyers were just smart enough to beat the system. This wasn't a conspiracy, no one was out to get him, he failed and found a way to beat the system. I know this is a "say it ain't so" moment, but it is what it is. Guilty people are acquitted every day because of failure of procedure. It doesn't make them innocent, it means the means of proving their guilt were not handled according to procedure. Regardless if that procedure is relevant. Good for him, good for Brewers baseball.

 

This is an emotional topic, especially among super fans. He is the face of the franchise, we are heavily invested in him both financially and emotionally. If your opinion is that of guilt, you must be a hater. If you think he's innocent, you're a blind homer. Whoever said there is no shade of gray, is probably mostly right. My personal opinion, I think he used steroids to get healthy; which are their designed purpose. It's just against the rules, which I think are ridiculous, but probably necessary.

 

As far as the current situation. Here's what doesn't make sense to me. Why is Braun's name on Bosch's books if he was a paid consultant? Braun wasn't gathering consultants, his lawyers were. They would have been the one to contact, and given their quality, they would have ensured his name was nowhere near those books. They also would have paid him, to ensure something like this doesn't happen. He doesn't have a public defender, he has extremely smart attorneys, the first to figure out how to beat MLB's system. They knew there would be backlash, they knew their sources would most likely be contacted...but they stiffed a shady PED pusher, and left Braun exposed? Really? Lawyers don't run around using their clients names, I don't even think that's legal. In all likelihood, if they did contact Bosch as a possible witness, the law firm would have a copy of the contract, and this never would have been a problem. I would think that when this information was released months ago, his lawyers would have come forward with this, and he would have been cleared, much like Gio Gonzalez was.

 

I'm too lazy to go back and look but I'm pretty sure one of his lawyers names WAS on the list, along with Braun.

 

For those stating that Braun had steroids in his sample, you need to read the article Will Carrol wrote about how Braun's team was able to duplicate the test results.

[torts]

 

 

For those stating that Braun had steroids in his sample, you need to read the article Will Carrol wrote about how Braun's team was able to duplicate the test results.

 

did they just have braun pee in another cup?

[danzig6767]

My gut feeling is that Braun was a PED user to some degree.

 

That said, i also feel Braun and every other player involved in this Biogenesis situation deserves a really fair process where their guilt can be proven to a near certainty before both having their reputations damaged permanently and being suspended.

 

There is a ton on the line for all of these players involved in this situation, not just Braun. So i sure hope that if MLB does go out and do a mass suspension binge of 20 plus players, they have more socalled evidence than the word of a guy trying to help himself and the scribbling of names on a piece of paper.

 

I also hope that if there is a mass suspension on potential shaky evidence, it's all made public for everyone else to evaluate whether MLB did really have a strong case or if was mainly just based on getting a guy to tell them what they wanted to hear via threats of expensive litigation.

[brewmann04]

we should now by early July MLB to interview all 20 by the end of June hope they release all the names for fairness and then impose their bans by early july.

[FidoMcCokefiend]

Braun was never found innocent, and like the word or not; he won his acquittal on a technicality. No one argued that the sample wasn't his, they argued that baseball didn't follow the process to the letter.

 

I'm boggled how anyone can argue that screwing up the procedure is a "technicality". Tim Marchman of the WSJ stated it best today "The integrity of any system of drug testing is entirely reliant on letter-perfect adherence to technical procedure."

 

A technicality is they spelled Braun's name on the sample incorrectly "Bruan". Screwing up the testing procedure is fundamental to the integrity of the test and is anything but a "technicality"

[thebruce44]

Braun was never found innocent, and like the word or not; he won his acquittal on a technicality.

No he didn't. He had his suspension overturned because following testing procedures is what makes testing viable in the first place.

 

No one argued that the sample wasn't his

Actually, they attempted to but MLB wouldn't allow them to do a DNA test.

 

The facts are that urine samples don't sprout synthetic testosterone when kept in a cool basement over a weekend. The test was positive, whoever took that test was on PEDs.

You really need to read up on how drug testing works. I'm not going to continue picking apart your post but there is a lot of factually wrong information in it.

[narwhalattack]

Basically, there's a reason why those procedures are in place, so that results are guaranteed to be legitimate, or as close to legitimate as possible. Lots of things can go wrong when procedures aren't followed word for word.

[brwrsfan]

It's really quite simple - they attacked the procedures because they were CLEARLY flawed. They did offer to do a DNA test, among other things but MLB said no. There is also the possibility that something DID get tampered with or his sample got messed up sitting out that long (as Caroll wrote, Brauns team reproduced the results).

 

Obviously it's different in a court of law, but if you gave a blood sample to the police, for whatever reason and instead of getting it tested right away, a cop took it home, let it sit around for 3 days, then took it in, do you think that would hold up in court? Would you argue that whatever was in that container wasn't your sample or would you argue that it doesn't make any difference what the sample has in it, because it was sitting around for 3 days to degrade, maybe be contaiminated, etc.

[The stache]

 

I don't know enough about anybody on this board other than my interpretations of the words they write. And Bruce, this isn't at all directed at you. I just read through this thread and see some people who several years ago would have been standing on the street corner, cheering OJ's white Bronco as it drove by.

 

That was completely uncalled for. So, if we're not ready to bury a player on our team based on conjecture and half-truths, we're capable of cheering on a murderer, too?

 

You stated earlier that you hadn't seen any of the real facts from the first appeal and overturn. Neither have I. I cannot verify the veracity of the information that has been floated out there. I haven't seen the written summary by Das, nor can I vet the scientific evidence provided by Braun's defense team. Barring that ,I'm not going to convict the guy. I'm sorry. It seems you've already done so, yet I will not. It doesn't make me a homer, it makes me a man with a brain, and that brain is telling me that something doesn't smell right. This goes far beyond wanting to clean up the game; it looks like the Salem Witch trials all over again. MLB, ESPN, Yahoo Sports and a few other national media outlets are acting in concert, and they have created enough froth where half the people in this country want to see Braun "hanged", so to speak, absent of any real facts being made available. MLB's "star witness" has zero credibility whatsoever.

 

Whatever happened to the confidentiality of this whole system? It's supposed to work in a very specific way, and now once again we're hearing that suspensions are imminent. We're only supposed to hear about this if a player (or players) have been suspended, and their appeals were denied.

[The stache]

http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/blog_article/does-mlb-have-a-case-this-time/

 

fantastic article written on hardballtimes by Eugene Freedman about just how difficult this will be for MLB to win. I suggest everyone reading it if you have time

 

Very well written, indeed. The more I read about this, the more I don't see a chance in hell that Braun is suspended. Unless MLB has another positive test result from Braun that we don't know about, they have no physical evidence whatsoever, and they're relying completely on hearsay. The "records" that we've all seen provided show Braun with a dollar amount next to his name, and Bosch has already stated publicly that he's not had any contact with Braun whatsoever, supporting the assertions of Braun's legal defense team.

 

This whole thing is a house-of-cards waiting to fall down. And it will. And MLB will look incredibly bad once again. They didn't like it when Braun "got off". How ticked off will they be when 20 guys "get off".

[Funketown]

This made me chuckle, from deadspin:

 

"The text of the drug agreement between labor and management can be found here; page seven spells out punishable acts, among which “Be accused of buying drugs from a wellness quack with his head in a hangman's noose” is not to be found."

[Funketown]

Dear Bud Selig, I think I just saw Joey Votto, Shin-Soo Choo, Brandon Phillips, Homer Bailey, Matt Latos, Mike Leake, Matt Carpenter, Yadier Molina, Carlos Beltran, Matt Holliday, Jaime Garcia, Adam Wainwright, Lance Lynn, Andrew McCutchen, Starling Marte, Russell Martin, Jason Grilli, AJ Burnett, and Francisco Liriano buying HGH from Yuniesky Betancourt.

 

Sincerely,

Anonymous Brewers Fan

[JimH5]

Nobody has to bury the guy, but it seems like some are completely unwilling to consider that he might not have been truthful to us, and that they will stand by him regardless. Even if he goes kicking and screaming to a suspension, there will invariably be 5 guys on here who insist it's a grand scheme to vindicate their testing system, etc.

 

Yes--the OJ stuff was over the top.

 

But the talk of this being a witch hunt, and ESPN is MLB's mouthpiece, and what a huge conspiracy this is. . .all that. . .

 

Often times, things are exactly as they appear. There's no ulterior motive. There's no behind the scenes shenanigans.

 

He's under investigation for violating the PED agreement--and it just might be that he actually violated the PED agreement! That wouldn't be ESPN's fault or Rob Manfred's fault or Bud Selig's fault or Tony Bosch's fault. It would be Ryan Braun's fault. And yet admitting that seems impossible for some.

 

As for the mod status. . .I've had it for about 5 minutes. Evidently, the council of elders had a meeting and saw that I had been on here for 10 years and everyone older than me is now dead, so they reached out to me. I really appreciate being asked, though if they want to strip me of my title, that will be okay, too. If they think that I put Braun on the same actual plane as a real killer, then it was because I didn't use hyperbole effectively.

[502 to Right]

I personally think this is not going to end well for MLB.

[fondybrewfan]

Really though all it takes is one arbitrator that is an MLB stooge to have these bans hold up. You know the MLB rep will vite for the van and the MLBPA will vote against the ban. It is still going to come down to the 3rd guy and that's why this process is going to be so unpredictable. MLB is going to do their best to make sure the guy they want is that final decider

[lcbj68c]

Really though all it takes is one arbitrator that is an MLB stooge to have these bans hold up. You know the MLB rep will vite for the van and the MLBPA will vote against the ban. It is still going to come down to the 3rd guy and that's why this process is going to be so unpredictable. MLB is going to do their best to make sure the guy they want is that final decider

 

I wonder why Sham Dyas was fired?