Braun, Cano, ARod, Granderson rumored to have failed PED test

[brewtank34]

Our society is completely different than it was back in the '40's and '50's when times were more innocent and baseball had players revered as like Gods/Heroes.

 

I won't disagree with your rant but it really is misplaced. The entire game was built around gambling and players and teams throwing games to make people money. At no point has MLB been about honest players. While I'm not all on board with steroid use it isn't some big black eye on the sport because the sport has always been about cheating to get ahead. It isn't unique in this, NFL steroid use is out of control as an example. NBA refs are payed off on a regular basis and the players themselves don't' really care about what happens on a game to game basis. An overwhelming number of soccer games have been shown to be rigged etc.

 

I couldn't agree with you more Ender. I think with my statement there, was more to the whole little boy looking up to these players as role models vs now, we need to be educating out children that these players are entertainment and not role models in the slightest. Good points though with the soccer, basketball refs references.

[brewmann04]

I respect your rant but there are kids who want to be like these guys and that a shame if it leads one kid to use these Drugs.

[endaround]

I respect your rant but there are kids who want to be like these guys and that a shame if it leads one kid to use these Drugs.

 

Kids aren't idiots. They don't use PEDs because some pro athlete does. They do it to gain muscle, beef up for football like their coach says to, make weight for wrestling, and in general to win. The fact a guy they root for uses has no part in the equation.

[trwi7]

I respect your rant but there are kids who want to be like these guys and that a shame if it leads one kid to use these Drugs.

 

If they use them, they were probably going to anyways regardless of whether or not their favorite player did or didn't.

[azcheesehead]

I respect your rant but there are kids who want to be like these guys and that a shame if it leads one kid to use these Drugs.

 

Kids aren't idiots. They don't use PEDs because some pro athlete does. They do it to gain muscle, beef up for football like their coach says to, make weight for wrestling, and in general to win. The fact a guy they root for uses has no part in the equation.

 

Ha. That's laughable. I've never told any of my athletes to take PEDs. Why? Because I care about them.

[trwi7]

I respect your rant but there are kids who want to be like these guys and that a shame if it leads one kid to use these Drugs.

 

Kids aren't idiots. They don't use PEDs because some pro athlete does. They do it to gain muscle, beef up for football like their coach says to, make weight for wrestling, and in general to win. The fact a guy they root for uses has no part in the equation.

 

Ha. That's laughable. I've never told any of my athletes to take PEDs. Why? Because I care about them.

 

Just because you do doesn't mean all coaches do.

[PKBadger]

I'd like to think that I'm pretty open-minded on the use of some newer PEDs, but lately the sentiment on the pro-juicing side has been as completely wacko as the strict abolitionists on the other side of the argument.

 

Nobody wants to see a guy grow 5 hat sizes during his mid-30s. It was actually physically revolting to watch that transition.

 

There's a fine line between taking a currently banned substance to bounce back from injuries/fatigue of a 162-game schedule, and taking them to turn yourself into Bane. It shouldn't be a free for all, and some of you seem to be advocating that.

[Ennder]

I'd like to think that I'm pretty open-minded on the use of some newer PEDs, but lately some of you guys on the pro-juicing side have been as completely wacko as the strict abolitionists on the other side of the argument.

 

Nobody wants to see a guy grow 5 hat sizes during his mid-30s. It was actually physically revolting to watch that transition.

 

There's a fine line between taking a currently banned substance to bounce back from injuries/fatigue of a 162-game schedule, and taking them to turn yourself into Bane. It shouldn't be a free for all, and some of you seem to be advocating that.

 

 

That is true but lets be honest here, there has been no proof that these new steroids help performance at all, they have studied them and the results are completely inconclusive. This is not the anabolic steroid era at all. There is no proof at all that these new steroids do more than get players ready to recover from injuries faster.

[jerichoholicninja]

I respect your rant but there are kids who want to be like these guys and that a shame if it leads one kid to use these Drugs.

 

Kids aren't idiots. They don't use PEDs because some pro athlete does. They do it to gain muscle, beef up for football like their coach says to, make weight for wrestling, and in general to win. The fact a guy they root for uses has no part in the equation.

 

Ha. That's laughable. I've never told any of my athletes to take PEDs. Why? Because I care about them.

 

He's not saying that coaches are telling kids to take steroids but telling them the only way they will play is if they get bigger. I coach high school baseball and I'm surprised how openly the kids talk about who's taking "something" on the football team. I'm more surprised that nothing is ever done about it. It's probably because the coaches take a "don't ask, don't tell" approach. The less they know, the better.

[TheCrew07]

He's not saying that coaches are telling kids to take steroids but telling them the only way they will play is if they get bigger. I coach high school baseball and I'm surprised how openly the kids talk about who's taking "something" on the football team. I'm more surprised that nothing is ever done about it. It's probably because the coaches take a "don't ask, don't tell" approach. The less they know, the better.

 

I couldn't sleep so I jumped on bf.net and now I wish I hadn't... Maybe in Texas where HS football coaches are just paid to coach and the pressure to win is so extreme they might look the other way, but what responsible adult would push steroids on kids or look the other way? You coach, that's just not how it works; you end up caring about the kids like they are family, you care about how they act, their grades, who they hang out with, who they are dating, you care about it all.

 

Yes kids will take stuff, and they can get the idea the from any number of places, and in some cases parental support as well. However, as a football coach most of my adult life I've never even pushed supplements for kids because one thing tends to lead to another. As a society we seem to want things instantly and without much effort... that's where the steroids come in. It's a quicker path to the end result which requires less effort than doing it the right way. It's not instant gratification, but it is a much easier road.

 

I pretty much like all Men's athletics equally, with the exception of Soccer, and that's mostly because it's sold as a "safe" sport but has one of the worst concussion rates of any sport known to men/women. I'm not into, "baseball is this", "football is that", and "basketball does whatever". The only truism I see is that somehow the notion that baseball players shouldn't lift weights still persists, depsite all the evidence to the contrary. Once again athletic lifting is much different that body building, power lifting, or beach muscles... it's about quick twitch explosive movements, core strength, and flexbility. Athletes will get "ripped" and get a nice "beach body" with a proper diet and work out regime, even high school kids. Heck I'm doing at 37 years old and I'm not taking any supplements at all. Athletes that lift athletically don't get "tight", and an athletic training program will only enhance a baseball players hitting, pitching, and fielding. The problem is that there's probably 100 ways to lift/work out wrong and only about 10 ways to do it right.

 

I've mentioned a couple of times that I know some former NFL players, and while all of them talked about under the table gifts from boosters in college, only 1 was given steroids by a team. He played for 3 different organizaitons and only his last organization was dosing players, and that was in something like 1985. There's quite a bit not to like medically about the NFL, including cortizone shots which don't fix anything and allow an athlete to get back on the field, however this whining about MLB in comparison to the other sports has to stop.

 

It's true that steroids/PEDs don't help a baseball player hit a ball, but they do help a position player hit the ball farther, or a pitcher throw the ball harder, and allow both sets to recover quicker from injuries. If that wasn't the case, no one would take them, and it's laughable that some people still believe the juiced ball theory that keeps getting posted here. I also know a former MLB pitcher, and he didn't want to talk much about PEDs the last time I saw him other than to say he didn't partake (which would be obvious given the player's physique), probably because there were all people around at the golf outing, but he did drop a wealth of knowledge about pitching.

 

Baseball is the only sport that isn't capped, the top players earn nearly twice what the best players in the other leagues do, that's why there's so much incentive to cheat. The season is extremely long and grueling and contract dollars are determined by how hard you throw/how effective you are and how much power you can hit for. In football PEDs aren't going to help a QB read defenses better, and that's much more important than how much arm strength the guy has. There are certainly benefits to be gained in football by taking PEDs, but individual achievement is largely a function of team success. In baseball you can hit .245 and play shoddy defense if you're going hit for a .800 OPS and be a very rich man. It's an individual sport loosely surrounding by the team concept.

 

In truth basebal created it's own problem as you have extremely underpaid, poorly nutritioned, sometimes poorly conditioned, and poorly rested athletes coming through the Minor Leagues, it shouldn't be surprising to anyone that PEDs started with Speed back in the day and have progressed. Speed was the easy solution to that general feeling of fatigue that so many players felt. Too many games, too much time on the road, terrible food spreads, sleeping on buses/trains (back in the day), there's just not much time to do anything but survive. The MLB/MiLB system isn't setup to build athletes, it was setup as a survival of the fittest trial, and for many organizations it still is that way.

[dlk9s]

I don't think there's anything to this latest rumor. I haven't seen it picked up by other sports media outlets. And we know the likes of ESPN and Yahoo aren't shy about running with a story before they know the facts.

[Ennder]

It's true that steroids/PEDs don't help a baseball player hit a ball, but they do help a position player hit the ball farther, or a pitcher throw the ball harder

 

There is zero proof that this is true though. All of the tests they have run on non anabolic steroids have been inconclusive on them actually helping players. So it is really hard to know how 'bad' they are. They definitely keep people at 100% for more of the season and that definitely helps players so they have a real effect on the game for sure.

 

Baseball is the only sport that isn't capped, the top players earn nearly twice what the best players in the other leagues do, that's why there's so much incentive to cheat.

 

This isn't really true either. Joe Flacco just got $20M a year to be a league average QB. There is just as much incentive in other sports to cheat as in baseball, the cap has nothing to do with anything.

[RobDeer 45]

Bottom line, when there is that much fame and money on the line people will do anything to get it. Doesn't matter what sport, people will try to find any edge they can.

 

I used to get mad about people cheating but now it is what it is. I just hope Braun doesn't get suspended, but man he's got a lot of smoke around him.

[JimH5]

Bottom line, when there is that much fame and money on the line people will do anything to get it. Doesn't matter what sport, people will try to find any edge they can.

 

I used to get mad about people cheating but now it is what it is. I just hope Braun doesn't get suspended, but man he's got a lot of smoke around him.

 

I agree. And when you think about the difference between a guy living in poverty in the Dominican Republic and even just hanging on for a year or two as a fringe major leaguer, the temptation is understandable.

 

Regardless, the game has to be diligent to keep players honest, and thankfully, the latest push toward a cleaner game seems to be coming with the union's cooperation.

[Patrick425]

Bottom line, when there is that much fame and money on the line people will do anything to get it. Doesn't matter what sport, people will try to find any edge they can.

 

I used to get mad about people cheating but now it is what it is. I just hope Braun doesn't get suspended, but man he's got a lot of smoke around him.

 

 

I also understand why some people will try to find an edge with all the money at stake. Doesn't mean that I'm not mad about it or think that it's ok. There is a lot of money at stake in many professions outside of baseball, it doesn't mean that lying and cheating is an acceptable means of obtaining that money. If someone is able to lie and cheat about their grades to get into an Ivy league school and takes the spot of someone who is more "naturally" qualified, is that ok? Should we just say "that's the way it is" and live with it?

 

I understand it's just sports. But, people pay money to see sports. Sports serve a role in our lives just like movies, the arts, or any other non-work related recreational activity. Maybe I'm in the minority, but when I watch a sport I want to be able to believe that the athletes I'm watching are doing what they are doing based purely on a combination of hard work and natural abilities. I'm not sure I understand the person who doesn't care if the athletes he or she is watching are "roided up". Would you prefer that instead of using baseballs they use superballs so that they fly farther? How about if we let pitchers use some sort of projection device on the mound to throw harder? Why don't we just replace all the athletes with machines?

[fondybrewfan]

I will go with the crowrd here and say that if Braun tested positive again (And presumably kept taking whatever he was taking) then he gets what is coming to him. All Brewers fans are going to look like idiots for supporting him the whole time. Everyone else will be "I told you so".

 

That being said I am not going to believe some random internet rumor. The big names the guy is throwing out there just screams attention grabber to me. I mean come on Arod, Granderson, and Cano? Seems pretty damn unlikely unless Arod is a good salesmen for whatever he pumps into his body these days.

[owbc]

Sorry if this is too philosophical or doesn't make any sense but here's my opinion on PEDs:

 

I completely understand that there are cultural and financial motivations for players to take PEDs. However, the rules in MLB clearly state that if you are caught using banned substances three times, you are banned from the game. If a player tests positive for an illegal substance, that means he was cheating. In every single sport including cycling, there are some players using banned substances and some who only use approved substances. The players using banned substances are using them to gain an advantage which is inherently unfair by the rules. If the rules are not enforced, then the best cheaters will be rewarded, which damages the integrity of the game and disrespects those that follow the rules.

 

Every baseball player past and present who has cheated or attempted to cheat has damaged the integrity of the game. That includes everyone in the past who took Cocaine or Speed or doctored the ball or corked their bat. It definitely includes Pete Rose and the Black Sox. There will always be rules and there will always be rule breakers, that's human nature, especially with the high stakes these days. Sports where the rules are better defined and respected will always be at a higher level than those where that isn't the case. It's fundamental to any sport or any societal institution for that matter. It requires agreement and acceptance from both the participants and the enforcers. With regard to PEDs, it is critical that both sides (players and MLB) are in full agreement on the list of banned substances and the testing process. That is why the situation associated with Braun's positive test and MLB's response was so concerning.

 

Sometimes it is then indirectly stated that the "integrity of the game" is an abstract concept that shouldn't be used as an argument against PED users, or that PED use does not appreciably damage the integrity of the game. In other words, the players and MLB should just agree to reduce the list of banned substances. Baseball is entertainment, the fans want to see the best players, other sports do it, etc. If everyone is allowed to take a substance and it is widely available, that does even the playing field. There's a very strong argument for allowing substances that primarily aid in injury recovery or help survive the 162-game schedule. Regarding this debate, it is important that the sports, media, and fans come to a general agreement on exactly what is a PED and what isn't. It should be addressed as a major panel/study involving all major sports, preferably as equally as possible.

 

Because PEDs are not clearly defined and evolve with time, we have no choice but to evaluate baseball players in the context of their peers from the same era. In the "steriod era", steroids were legal in MLB and the media/fans went right along with it. That's why the home run record is 73 and not 61 and there is no asterisk and no way to retroactively change what Bonds accomplished. It's also why the BBWAA is walking a slippery slope with hall of fame voting and why the Braun situation is so complicated. Under the rulebook, Braun is clear, but the "cloud of suspicion" lingers. So while I think that Braun was taking PEDs, he was legally cleared and his accomplishments should not be diminished. That's also why I am generally in favor of likely PED users like Bonds and Clemens being in the hall of fame, even though I disapprove of their likely PED use.

[ReverendBrewmeister]

Perhaps OWBC's post is a bit philosophical, but after reading what he wrote, it's nearly exactly what's been bouncing around my head with the PED issue. Thanks for putting it in a written form that's easy to understand and makes sense.

[logan82]

Even with the rules being enforced there is no guarantee that the cheaters are using anything illegal that will show up in testing. Banning substances is easy. Catching cheaters is not.

[JohnBriggs12]

I'm suspicious of every sport down to and including bowling. Nobody mentions basketball, but when I see the bodies of guys in the NBA, I can't help but wonder.

[owbc]

Even with the rules being enforced there is no guarantee that the cheaters are using anything illegal that will show up in testing. Banning substances is easy. Catching cheaters is not.

 

Agreed, but catching cheaters equates to enforcing the rules. So if the test is inconclusive, then maybe the substance in question shouldn't be illegal?

 

Also, I think JohnBriggs12 was joking, but in bowling there are several methods for using illegal bowling balls. All serious competitions require participants to have their bowling balls weighed and examined.

[brewmann04]

I hope this is just smoke like you said have not seen the Yahoo or Espn running this out.I hope that this ends soon one way or the other.Everyone had their opinion on this matter which is good to see.

[brewmann04]

I guess the one easy one is to allow everything that way most of these issues go away.

[RobDeer 45]

I want to make sure that I did not come across saying cheating is ok, I just think that when that much money is on the line or fame, people will always try. It happens everywhere in life, not just sports. As you mentioned, is it fair if a kid cheats his way in to college, through college, to get a good job? No, but it does happen all the time. Yes people get caught, but some don't. It happens in the work world too. Like I said, the higher the reward, the more people will take chances.

[brwrsfan]

It seems a tad far fetched that all 4 of those guys would get caught at the same time. If they were busted last season, they'd have announced it at all. Are they tested in the off season? Even so, the appeals process likely would have been finished by now right? Last year the Braun appeal was over at the end of February. Unless they all JUST failed a test when camp opened, but again, that seems unlikely.

 

It still makes me very very nervous though. If Braun was stupid enough to keep taking PED's (if he was in the first place) after winning his first appeal, only to fail again, he deserves to be suspended. The guy being right on Cabrera has me nervous, but it just doesn't seem right.