Newest PED scandal: Braun named in Biogenesis clinic records (Reply #365: Additional mention found)

[Brew City Baseball Fan]

Attach any other teams star to this case, just as it has applied to Braun and I guartentee that 90% that have commented here writes that player off as a "USER". IMO Braun did wrong by saying theres more to the story back at last years presser. If there is more to the story that needs to come out NOW. Anybody here think Clemens didnt use? He was never proven guilty, but I sure think he was. The court of public opinion is all the matters when we talk legacy and the legitimacy of our teams superstar. No one has ever explained why those 2 samles last year tested higher than anyone on record. His attack of the collector was unfounded imo as well. Im a huge Braun fan too, sometime you just need to take the blue and yellow colored glasses off and see it for what it is.

[dlk9s]

If my reputation was at stake (and I was innocent), especially if I was a public figure, I sure as hell wouldn't worry about violating something in the CBA or even respecting someone's privacy. I'd be showing anyone and everyone evidence that would clear my name. Screw everyone, don't mess with my life.

[MNBrew]

IMO Braun did wrong by saying theres more to the story back at last years presser. If there is more to the story that needs to come out NOW.

This is what multiple people are saying. But I heartily disagree. As long as Braun does right & makes right -- tells & upholds the truth to those either investigating or in charge of his employment -- that's all that truly matters. What an awful indictment of the culture the media's created that people not connected to Braun or MLB that are somehow owed or entitled to the story!

 

Wanting to know the story is one thing, especially if it's just to make sense of it personally, but believing we're owed the whole story, to me, is nothing short of fundamentally wrong.

 

Technically, of course, the amount anyone believes Braun or believes in Braun may be predicated on knowing the full story. And there are many layers of being a fan of his & of the Brewers potentially affected by all this for many, many people. But knowing the whole story is not our right -- no matter how much the media wants to suggest it is!

[monty57]

If there is more to the story that needs to come out NOW.

 

I believe Braun, his attorneys, the arbitors, and the MLBPA have to remain silent about the arbitration proceedings, and the only ones who can discuss it are the MLB reps. They chose to seal the arbitrators' decision rather than make it available to the public. Therefore, as much as fans and the media would like Braun to give "the rest of the story," it's not going to happen.

 

If Braun is telling the truth about the consulting, I'd guess (or at least I hope) that the MLB already knows about it, and it will go no further than some yahoos on Yahoo trying to make a story out of nothing. If the MLB does not already know about it, then it was not part of the arbitration hearings, and Braun's attorneys might be able to show the world an invoice for consulting services. However, if you read the article posted a couple of pages back by the "attorney of 20 years," it sounds like anything the Miami company did for Braun could be private under attorney/client priveledge, so it's possible that if Braun shows any evidence from the Miami company, everything that company did for him could be open record and they'd have to give all test results, etc to the MLB, which may not be something Braun's team wants.

 

Braun may or may not be guilty, but saying he's guilty simply because he hasn't come out publicly with his story is being as blind as anyone who says he's innocent simply because he's their favorite player.

[dlk9s]

Sure, if Braun doesn't care about being booed by entire stadiums his whole career, never winning any awards ever again, never being elected to an All-Star Game, not making the HOF, and generally being disliked by anyone who is not a Brewers fan the rest of his life, then no, he doesn't need to give the fans or media definitive answers.

[monty57]

No one has ever explained why those 2 samles last year tested higher than anyone on record.

 

If you were driving along completely sober and were pulled over and blew something crazy like 0.90 on a breathalyzer, how would you prove that you were innocent? At least you'd have the readings immediately and your blood test could help prove that the breathalyzer was obviously wrong. Braun took another test as soon as he got his results, and that test came back clean. If he was innocent (I don't know if he was, but assume for a second that he is), how can he possibly prove that the initial test was wrong?

 

I don't know if he's guilty or innocent, but reading some posts (particularly those by PEBadger) in the very lengthy thread that was around last year at this time made me rethink my notion that just because the MLB says someone is guilty, they are 100% without a doubt guilty. Having a hand-written scribble in a notebook, which the original investigators disregarded, doesn't change my opinion about Braun. I still don't know whether he's guilty or innocent, and I'll be pretty surprised if he's suspended because of this new story.

[bill hAll Star]

I always thought this quote from Bill Simmons (probably from some sports connection), was the saga of Braun (I am one that is skeptical that Braun and all of these guys use it).

 

http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/8904906/daring-ask-ped-question

 

The following anecdote is also 100 percent true …

 

Not everyone tests for elevated testosterone. For the leagues or sports that do, they must account for people with naturally elevated levels of testosterone. That threshold is higher than you think because they're accounting for biological outliers — some athletes might naturally have twice as much testosterone as the average person. All right, so let's say you're an NFL player that has to test three times higher than the "average" threshold before getting flagged. Conceivably, you could rely on a controlled amount of HGH, something that bumps you up … just not TOO high. Maybe you jack up your testosterone levels a little under three times higher than they should be. Guess what? That's still legal! Do they have patches that can briefly bump up your levels without prolonged traces? Yes, they do! Did one famous athlete (not an NFL player) use that patch on his testicles to bump his levels close to that threshold, fall asleep, keep his patch on too long and subsequently fail his next test? Yes, he did! It's amazing this doesn't happen more often.

 

The only 3 positive tests for "high testosterone" that I know of not for NFL players are Melky, Colon, and (allegedly) Braun.

 

Assuming that Braun is a user, I felt that this story was about him. IF you believe Simmons is well connected, then I think there's a chance this story refers to Braun.

[Brew City Baseball Fan]

Sure, if Braun doesn't care about being booed by entire stadiums his whole career, never winning any awards ever again, never being elected to an All-Star Game, not making the HOF, and generally being disliked by anyone who is not a Brewers fan the rest of his life, then no, he doesn't need to give the fans or media definitive answers.

 

My thoughts exactly. Knowing the whole story on this would be fascinating, because I for one think Braun was the one that initially leaked the results to get out ahead of the impending doom.

 

But lets say Braun did use this Miami guy as a consultant. Why didnt Braun bring that info up last week upon the initial report being out there on AROD, etc?

 

I am usually one thats a major homer for the Wisconsin teams. After going to games in San Fran and speaking with there fans regarding Bonds and then thinking about how stupid I thought they were makes me not to be one of those people.

[Brew City Baseball Fan]

No one has ever explained why those 2 samles last year tested higher than anyone on record.

 

If you were driving along completely sober and were pulled over and blew something crazy like 0.90 on a breathalyzer, how would you prove that you were innocent? At least you'd have the readings immediately and your blood test could help prove that the breathalyzer was obviously wrong. Braun took another test as soon as he got his results, and that test came back clean. If he was innocent (I don't know if he was, but assume for a second that he is), how can he possibly prove that the initial test was wrong?

 

I don't know if he's guilty or innocent, but reading some posts (particularly those by PEBadger) in the very lengthy thread that was around last year at this time made me rethink my notion that just because the MLB says someone is guilty, they are 100% without a doubt guilty. Having a hand-written scribble in a notebook, which the original investigators disregarded, doesn't change my opinion about Braun. I still don't know whether he's guilty or innocent, and I'll be pretty surprised if he's suspended because of this new story.

 

The samples were tested twice, by a world class lab.

 

But lets go back to the day of that press conference. What gave the MLB the right to go after Braun the way they did in their statement? The answer is they didnt have the right to do so. So why didnt Braun go back after them commenting on an issue that was not supposed to go public? Because he has something to hide. Now that may be another players innocence, but either way he is hiding something and if he wants to have a clean rep he will have to come out with whats been in hiding.

[homer]

If Braun can't or won't produce evidence that he used this Bosch guy as a consultant only, then I'm forced to solidify my feeling that he's been guilty all along.

[LouisEly]

That threshold is higher than you think because they're accounting for biological outliers — some athletes might naturally have twice as much testosterone as the average person.

 

Actually, one person can have almost four times the testosterone levels of another person and both be considered within "normal" range. This does not include the percentage of the population that falls outside the normal range. Think bell curve.

 

How would Braun have gotten the PEDs? They would have to have been shipped to Braun somehow. I find it unlikely that some quack brought $20K of PEDs on an airplane. Anything liquid (like "the cream" and "the clear") would have to be checked in baggage, and that's a big risk. Did he drive a trunk full of them up to Braun? I don't think Braun would have been able to travel there on a regular basis without getting noticed. If the attorney traveled to Miami there would be some type of evidence of that. For that amount, there would have to be some evidence of the logistics.

[TheCrew07]

As I posted in the original thread last off-season I think this comes down to the same issue as any another other topic we debate on this forum. Unless there is irrefutable proof one way or another people are simply going to choose what they want to believe. Some will blindly defend Braun no matter what, some will assume guilt, some will sit on the fence and wait for more information. And truthfully if their is irrefutable proof like with Yuni B and his horrible defense a small portion of posters are still going to argue the contrary opinion for whatever reasons they choose. People are going to believe whatever they want to believe and act accordingly.

 

I don't hold athletes on pedestals, my allegiance is only to the team, doesn't matter what sport. If Braun did cheat, he certainly wasn't the first Brewer to take PEDs, he's just the first high profile player in the organization to get caught. I like Braun as a player but it stops there for me, I don't care about his legacy or any of that other stuff. He's good enough that I'm willing to hold onto him until his mid 30s but at that point I'd jettison him like any other aging player. I don't care about being a Brewer for life, I don't know him as a person, and therefore I'm willing to treat him like any other asset. Being a HOF quality player doesn't mean he's in infallible or a great person, it just means he's a very good baseball player.

 

I will say for the record that I believe the cheaters will always be ahead of the testers because that's where the big money is and if an athlete has enough money it's going to be extremely difficult for them to get caught by a drug test. I think the BALCO fiasco is the way most of those people are going to get caught... Someone talks to someone and the rest is history.

 

I'm also not talking about buying Deca Durabolin or any other anabolic steroid like professional wrestlers do off a supplier or crooked doctor, we're talking synthetic drugs that are designed to boost performance and beat tests. I've heard the $500 number a couple of times regarding street prices for low end roids, the last was just a couple of weeks ago in fact, but professional athletes aren't taking that kind of drug anymore, that's mostly body builders and professional wrestlers. I do know a former NFL player who cycled with Deca in the early 80s (administered by the team doctor) but the major sports are way past that sort of thing now.

[ilikewisco]

I'm not a court of law, so he's guilty in my eyes until he proves himself innocent. This is way too much coincidence for me to dismiss. I'll still root for him but its only because he is a Brewer. I don't really care anymore who uses or used PED's but that doesn't mean it doesn't affect my liking of a player. I have a lot more respect for someone like Andy Petite who came clean than a Roger Clemens who wouldn't.

 

I'm not saying anyone should agree with me, but this is just too much for me to dismiss without some sort of proof to the contrary.

[xisxisxis]

The original story that came out about Braun was supposedly a leak from a "consultant" that Braun's people contacted. i wouldn't be surprised if Bosch was the leak and the main reason he isn't getting paid is that they (braun & his lawyers ) suspect or kwow Bosch was the leak.

[logan82]

The original story that came out about Braun was supposedly a leak from a "consultant" that Braun's people contacted.

That is what I remember also.

[dlk9s]

I don't hold athletes on pedestals, my allegiance is only to the team, doesn't matter what sport. If Braun did cheat, he certainly wasn't the first Brewer to take PEDs, he's just the first high profile player in the organization to get caught. I like Braun as a player but it stops there for me, I don't care about his legacy or any of that other stuff. He's good enough that I'm willing to hold onto him until his mid 30s but at that point I'd jettison him like any other aging player. I don't care about being a Brewer for life, I don't know him as a person, and therefore I'm willing to treat him like any other asset.

 

I know this is a way to protect yourself from emotional letdowns and since I'm not a kid anymore, I also don't put athletes on pedestals, but this seems like a way to suck a lot of the fun out of being a fan.

[Yeti73]

The original story that came out about Braun was supposedly a leak from a "consultant" that Braun's people contacted.

That is what I remember also.

 

Here is a quote from 11.5 months ago in the JS:

"In his statement, union executive director Michael Weiner said, “The breach of confidentiality associated with this matter is unfortunate but, after investigation, we are confident that it was not caused by the Commissioner’s Office, the MLBPA or anyone associated in any way with the Program.”

 

So, the union that represents Braun cleared itself, the Commissioner’s office and anyone associated with the drug program of leaking the news of the positive test. That would include the highly regarded testing laboratory in Montreal as well as much-maligned collector Dino Laurienzi, whose delay in shipping Braun’s urine sample led to a chain-of-custody dispute and the eventual exoneration of Braun.

 

Conspicuously missing from being cleared by the union’s investigation is Braun’s camp. But someone connected with his side of the issue said “without question” news of the leak did not come from Braun, any of his representatives or defense team.

 

So, who did leak the report to ESPN, which broke the news of the positive test on its “Outside the Lines” program on Dec. 10? Word was starting to spread Friday that someone contacted by Braun’s defense team as a possible expert in the dos and don’ts of drug testing might have betrayed them.

 

“ESPN’s investigative team has done a lot with drug testing in baseball,” said my source. “They probably know some of the same people that Braun’s defense team could have talked to. They might have let their circle get too wide.”

 

During his impassioned and detailed news conference, Braun was asked if his side had tried to determine the source of the leak and if any possible legal action could take place. He was somewhat evasive in his answer.

 

"Do we have some idea how this could have occurred? Yes, but we don't know anything with any type of certainty," he said. "I think commenting further than that wouldn't be fair for me.""

 

I don't want to argue about whether I should believe he's a doper. It is each individual's decision based on the facts available. I will say, though, that this is becoming a more and more interesting story. It wouldn't be an absurd conclusion to determine that Boesch was consulted, got some dirt, held it over Braun's camp's heads, leaked the story, pissed Braun's camp off leading them to not paying, but now they can't throw him further under the bus because Boesch still has dirt on him. It isn't unlike the Clemons' trainer. A desperate lunatic with some painful information. Clemons was able to discredit the guy a lot, but damage was done.

 

Not that anyone cares, I still believe in Braun and will cheer him on regardless.

[dlk9s]

It wouldn't be an absurd conclusion to determine that Boesch was consulted, got some dirt, held it over Braun's camp's heads, leaked the story, pissed Braun's camp off leading them to not paying, but now they can't throw him further under the bus because Boesch still has dirt on him.

 

Or if Braun is, in fact, innocent, it could be that they consulted Bosch then had some disagreement as to compensation, resulting in Bosch leaking the info out of spite. Braun may have decided to not out Bosch as the leak because, as he said, they didn't know it was him for sure and it would be fair, or maybe Braun didn't want people to know his team talked to a PED peddler.

 

What's interesting is that even if the Braun stuff was never leaked last year, it would have come out now.

[JimH5]

 

I know this is a way to protect yourself from emotional letdowns and since I'm not a kid anymore, I also don't put athletes on pedestals, but this seems like a way to suck a lot of the fun out of being a fan.

 

Absolutely agree. How many adults own and proudly wear Braun-themed gear to the games? And now how many of them are now somewhat sheepish about it?

 

How many hours have been spent in lines and how much money has been spent on Braun autographs?

 

How many thousands of people went to the On Deck event recently, to see these guys just hanging around, posing for pictures, signing stuff, etc?

 

Stories like this really take away the fun of fandom, where you're forever looking at them through doubtful eyes. Plus it gives every Cubs fan reason to be gleeful about our own schadenfreude.

 

I want to be the one taking the high ground, not some doofus in a "C" hat.

[The stache]

Braun would have to give his lawyers permission to release anything; hopefully he does that. That being said he was in no rush to release anything last winter and I am a little skeptical that they are going to release anything now. Braun is basically asking everyone to take him at his world.

 

Read the article I linked on Fangraphs by Wendy Thurm. She reinforced what I've thought all along about last year. So many people are screaming "he said he'd come out and explain, and he didn't. So therefore, he's hiding something".

 

What far too many people fail to glean is that although somebody leaked the failed test, confidentiality is still attached to the process, and Braun cannot say certain things in public.

 

Thurm:

 

Why didn’t Braun get out in front of the story? Why not disclose his connection to Bosch and Biogenesis after the New Times report last week? Two reasons. For one, Braun may not have known that the Biogenesis documents contained any reference to him. The New Times report didn’t identify Braun in any way. Why get out in front of a story without knowing the facts? Second, if Bosch was a behind-the-scenes consultant, then his identity and work on Braun’s appeal was privileged and confidential. If Braun had issued a broad statement disclosing everything he knows about Bosch, it could result — down the line — in a waiver of confidentiality. Braun’s statement today was narrowly crafted to address only the documents in Yahoo!’s report. If I were Braun’s attorney, I would have advised precisely the same approach.

 

That is in part why Shyam Das never released his opinion, confidentiality. Just because the test was leaked, does not mean that confidentiality doesn't still exist for the remainder of the process. If Braun comes out and says something he shouldn't, my impression is that it could lead to punitive action by MLB, up to and including an overturn of the decision on his behalf. It sucks, but it seems to me that it's either "play the entire season, and have people second guess you", or "speak up and defend yourself in the court of public opinion, and get suspended 50 games for breaking the confidentiality clause of binding arbitration". Don't bet for a second that MLB wouldn't slam that down on him if they could.

 

It really sucks because whoever leaked the original failed test put Ryan Braun in an untenable position. He can either save face, and screw the team over by missing 50 games, or he can keep quiet, let everybody trash him, and play the full season.

[logan82]

My guess is that they are pursuing legal action against whomever leaked the failed test. If this is in fact Bosch, and it may not be, they probably really can't say much about it.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

I can't believe there's even one person who believes Braun's tales anymore.

[Patrick425]

What are the ramifications of Braun releasing information about what happened last year in regards the failed drug test and/or the arbitration hearings that followed? Can he be fined?, suspended?, taken to court?, kicked out of baseball?

[Hofbraunhaus]

What are the ramifications of Braun releasing information about what happened last year in regards the failed drug test and/or the arbitration hearings that followed? Can he be fined?, suspended?, taken to court?, kicked out of baseball?

 

I'm certainly not a legal expert and don't claim to fully understand the MLB displinary process. However, I would have to think in the instance that Braun is able to relase confidential information that fully backs his story and proves his innocence, it would be a PR nightmare for the MLB if they punished him for that.

[brwrsfan]

I wish we had more articles like this. It's something I've been arguing all along. That the orginal story didn't have Braun included (and you know they would have if possible) because they had access to all the files and had nothing that connected Braun. The newspaper showed some restraint and integrity that clearly places like Yahoo just simply don't have any more.

 

http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/blog/eye-on-baseball/21657424/maybe-the-new-times-was-cautious-for-a-reason