Newest PED scandal: Braun named in Biogenesis clinic records (Reply #365: Additional mention found)

[The stache]

Here's an article on Fangraphs written by Wendy Thurm, who practiced law for twenty years, and spent "a great deal of time working with experts in high-stakes cases".

 

link

 

"Braun's Explaination on Biogenesis is Entirely Plausible"

 

A very good read.

[brwrsfan]

This thing is still way too early to bury anyone - even clowns like A-Rod.

 

Braun, at least, has issued a statement and given a plausible argument as to why his name's on the list. Let's hope he backs it up with invoices or emails or whatever to prove that point.

 

I will be honest in that I read the original article, but not a lot more. All of this seems to hinge on a handwritten ledger of a shady PED pusher who seemed to like to brag about himself and his connections. Let's give it time. Things like canceled checks, emails, phone records and so forth will emerge - assuming it's all true.

 

I'm not defending Braun at all. I'm just saying it's way too early to pass judgement on any of these guys.

 

This is pretty much the most important thing. If he's telling the truth, there has to be a paper trail to indicate that, and if he has that, it will find it's way into public view, which should hopefully end the whole thing. If he isn't able to produce that, well that could really be problematic. But there is no way he was paid 30K consulting/retainer fee or whatever without a receipt, contract, phone records, emails, etc.

[jjfanec]

Here's an article on Fangraphs written by Wendy Thurm, who practiced law for twenty years, and spent "a great deal of time working with experts in high-stakes cases".

 

link

 

"Braun's Explaination on Biogenesis is Entirely Plausible"

 

A very good read.

 

I am torn. I have been told by someone on this board I cant believe Braun and am just digging a whole but I now have an actual lawyer saying Braun's story is very plausible.

 

Obviously, her article doesnt exonerate Braun, but if Braun can produce documents to back up his story then he is in good shape. Now public opinion will still bash him but if he can back up his statement there is no reason not to believe him

[Patrick425]

Yeah, I tend to believe that it's closer to $500 for college level or a lower level minor leaguer and closer to $10,000 for a high profile player. Secrecy, "detectability", quality all become greater factors and, as JimH stated, star players have greater means and desire to pay for those things (and the people that sell to star players probably know this).

 

I'm not stating with any certainty that I think Braun is guilty or not guilty. I'm just choosing to be a bit more skeptical this time around.

[bill hAll Star]

I don't think the guys saying "we shouldn't believe everything he says" should be treated poorly either. I agree, you either have believed Braun all along or you are a skeptic and this supports it a bit.

 

I think you just have to be careful what you say because all of the Lance Armstrong fans pointed to all of Lance's rebuttals to evidence and statements that guys like Greg LeMond came out and gave during the last decade plus.

 

Normally where there is smoke, there is fire. So far his story mostly jives with this but we don't know if this is some unfortunate series of events for him or Braun is sitting in an office with this team of 10 legal reps putting together a huge storyboard to make sure this whole story comes together.

[Thurston Fluff]

Given Braun's season last year after the positive urine sample as I see several possibilities about his use of PEDs.

1- Braun was using all along and continued to use even after he got away with a dirty test once. This is possible but I'm not sure how plausible. While it appears A-Rod did this verifying there are top level players who are still using. But to that point it seems all the guys getting caught are old or mediocre players having mediocre careers. Both seem to me guys who are desperate to hang to a flailing career. Braun is in the middle of a very long contract and in the prime of his career. He hardly seems to be the type of user currently in the game. But some people are arrogant like that and they think they can keep getting away with it.

2- Braun was using then got caught and stopped but had no negative effects on his performance. I suppose it is possible steroids don't work but there is plenty of evidence that shows they do. If find this to be the least likely.

3- Braun never used them.

 

To me 1 or 3 seem most likely. I have no idea which one is true but I sure hope option 3 turns out to be true.

[Fear The Chorizo]

So, players like ARod, Melky Cabrera, Cruz, and Gio Gonzalez are on this list of money owed to Bosch at amounts much smaller than Braun's 20-30K - they are the ones that Bosch had records of their PED regimens in his notes, not Braun. If Bosch's notes were detailed enough to show the regimens to these players who owed him a little $, why didn't he have a similar record for Braun, who apparently owed him significantly more?

[RobDeer 45]

Ya I guess I'm just saying, non of us know. So we shouldn't be throwing out blind statements that he did or didn't do it and get upset about it.

[owbc]

There's a lot of emotion involved in this case, I'm not trying to insult anyone so I apologize for coming off that way. Obviously there is a lot of information that we don't know and we probably never will. In my view, that isn't grounds for reserving judgment since we do have a fair amount of evidence between last year and now this incident. It makes me really upset since I now think that he was almost certainly was a PED user.

 

I guess what I'm looking for is a convincing argument to prove me otherwise, because I don't want to believe it. But all I see here is arguments that look like they are coming from others who don't want to believe it either. So I'm frustrated because I want one of you to prove me wrong, but it's probably not possible without more evidence.

[Ennder]

Braun was using then got caught and stopped but had no negative effects on his performance. I suppose it is possible steroids don't work but there is plenty of evidence that shows they do

 

Actually they have really struggled to prove that they do more than keep players healthier. Anabolic steroids pretty clearly build muscle mass but the stuff players use today we really have no clue on. If anything this list shows that they don't do a ton considering some of the names on it and how mediocre to bad they are.

[The stache]

I tell you guys what. I want something definitive this time. If somebody has to sneak fax a copy of a receipt from Braun's team saying "consulting fee" to (insert sports media outlet here), then do it. Enough screwing around with this.

 

I understand that the confidentiality clause of the arbitration is binding, but since this guy was apparently not brought in before the panel, this shouldn't fall under the auspices of the appeal. If so, can't SOMEBODY quickly make public an invoice, or a receipt, or something to show that what we're being told is true?

[JimH5]

It really is on Braun's team to convince us that he isn't a PED user and that his story about consulting fees are legit. I'm under no obligation to believe him without paper evidence.

 

I'd much rather be guilty of rush-to-judge skepticism than to be a hero worshiping rube, led along by a drug cheat.

 

If Braun wants me to hold him in high esteem, it's on him to do more than tell stories, as plausible as they may be.

[JackNicholson1974]

I reluctantly agree with you Jim. While I believe this story is plausible and probably likely, at this point, the Braun camp needs to come clean 100% on what happened last winter and tie it up with this new allegation so he can finally put this behind him. If people like Lucroy and Aaron Rodgers who have come out and said if we knew the whole story....well, its time to know the whole story.

[The stache]

I feel the same way. I'm not going to condemn him, but I really need to see something this time. Time to back the talk up.

[brains and braun]

Anyone have ESPN Insider to give the gist of the Buster Olney article? He seems to be saying not to rush to judgment one way or the other.

[brewmann04]

I just hope this does not drag but what ever the outcome is it happens quick.

I still think the story he came out with has a valid point.but we need to wait to see what happens.

[brewmann04]

Yes time to tell the whole story and get this out in front of him.

[pitchleague]

I understand that the confidentiality clause of the arbitration is binding, but since this guy was apparently not brought in before the panel, this shouldn't fall under the auspices of the appeal. If so, can't SOMEBODY quickly make public an invoice, or a receipt, or something to show that what we're being told is true?

 

 

My educated guess is that Braun's team of lawyers is doing exactly that right now. But it might take a few days because they want to close up every loophole that they can and get it done correctly the first time.

[bullox]

Anyone have ESPN Insider to give the gist of the Buster Olney article? He seems to be saying not to rush to judgment one way or the other.

 

That's pretty much all he says the whole article. He says there is an investigation under way and not to take any sides yet.

[fondybrewfan]

Braun would have to give his lawyers permission to release anything; hopefully he does that. That being said he was in no rush to release anything last winter and I am a little skeptical that they are going to release anything now. Braun is basically asking everyone to take him at his world.

 

His explanation is certainly plausible and could easily be proven if true. Not only would Braun's team have some sort of documentation; but I have to imagine so would the lab. There is no way that the labs only documentation that they consulted for Braun would be some written ledger. In all likelihood the Fed probably has something; but they sure as hell aren't going to release anything. Hell maybe the paper even has something that they have no disclosed to this point. If any money changed hands then there would be a paper trail, the FBI sure as hell will find it; the question is will anyone else

[monty57]

Come on, somebody in Braun's camp just release a copy of the legal contract used in creating a retainer with Bosch.

 

If Braun is telling the truth, it's possible that his attorneys contacted this guy, and never ended up using him. He feels he's owed $20k-$30k for "services rendered," while Braun's team doesn't feel he owes it, hence the dispute. If this is the case, there would be no "paper trail," as no contract was ever signed, and no money ever exchanged hands.

 

An earlier poster referenced this, but I wonder if "double jeopardy" can occur. Braun was tried and cleared, so if it does turn out that Braun bought PEDs prior to the failed test, can he be re-tried with the new evidence? In a court of law, he probably couldn't, but this isn't a court of law.

[Crew2323]

Apparently, T.J. Quinn said this on ESPN First Take: "I see nothing that linked Braun to drugs from that clinic." To me, that's a powerful statement considering the source.

[logan82]

I wonder if Bosch was the one who leaked the story of Braun in the first place.

 

I believe that Braun is probably using something illegal. I think many baseball players are though. The cheaters will always be ahead of the testers.

[ninja33]

I wonder if Bosch was the one who leaked the story of Braun in the first place.

 

That's a pretty decent theory that I'm surprised didn't cross my mind. Bosch is trying to get 20-30K for whatever he did or thinks he did. Braun's team says they didn't get anything useful. Bosch leaks that Braun's camp was talking to him about this.

[homer]

From TH:

 

"David Cornwell, the lead attorney for the defense team......."I was not familiar with Tony Bosch prior to Ryan Braun's case. Bosch was introduced to me at the earliest stage of Ryan's case.

 

 

 

Well, this does not sound good as it pretty much contradicts what Braun said in his statement.

 

 

Cornwell wasn't the only attorney on the case.