Newest PED scandal: Braun named in Biogenesis clinic records (Reply #365: Additional mention found)

[Invader3K]

Conversely, anyone realistically believe that this lab would provide PED's on credit or if they did that a player would risk being outed by not paying?

 

That's a great point actually.

[brewcrew779]

Conversely, anyone realistically believe that this lab would provide PED's on credit or if they did that a player would risk being outed by not paying?

 

Exactly. Someone who has supposedly owed $22-$30k and hasn't paid for over a year would have been outed a long time ago. Braun's lawyer was on the list as well, so what would he have to gain from taking PED's? If I'm Braun's legal team, I'm trying to build the best case possible (last year) and consult as many people as possible as to why my clients T levels were through the roof. If i'm Braun, I'd gladly pay $22-$30K to get good information so that I'm nnot suspended and cost myself $3 mil plus for a 50 game suspension. I'm sure all of us would gladly pay 2 that money to ensure we make out millions.

[TURBO]

That's my hang-up here, as well. Why would you consult a steroid dealer? I guess because he knows how to help guys pass tests?

 

 

Was it commonly known a year ago that this guy was a steroid dealer?

 

Edit: Nevermind...went back and read the ESPN story that was in post #1 on this thread. Didn't know that Bosch had ties to Manny Ramirez back in 2009. So, yeah, gotta agree, why would you go anywhere near this guy if you were clean?

 

Ok, so on the flip side, why would you go anywhere near this guy if he is dirty, when he is notorious for his involvement with PEDs.

 

Just doesn't make any sense one way or the other.

 

This is maddening. I truly thought this was behind him. Kind of sucks being a fan right now. I'm torn between just ignoring everything and hating the guy for putting us all through the ringer again...

[Patrick425]

Conversely, anyone realistically believe that this lab would provide PED's on credit or if they did that a player would risk being outed by not paying?

 

That's a great point actually.

 

How would the player be "outed" and why would a lab that is engaging in illegal activities do that? Neither the lab nor the player wants to get caught.

[Patrick425]

Braun's lawyer was on the list as well, so what would he have to gain from taking PED's?

 

 

His lawyer's name was on the list? I'm not doubting your statement...I just don't remember hearing or reading about this before (I do tend to skim articles when reading).

[JohnBriggs12]

Conversely, anyone realistically believe that this lab would provide PED's on credit or if they did that a player would risk being outed by not paying?

 

That's a great point actually.

 

How would the player be "outed" and why would a lab that is engaging in illegal activities do that? Neither the lab nor the player wants to get caught.

 

That's a valid point, and one I considered. Did Braun stop paying them after the bad drug test? Perhaps. Anything's possible but it all seems easy enough to check out.

[burnzy24]

Lets review:

 

Ryan Braun's name is on a list from a known PED provider with known PED users on either side of him, one of which has been known to associate with Braun in the offseason. He spent $30-40,000 on something. Out of all the possible experts on PEDs, when Braun was in trouble, his lawyers chose to spend at least 30 grand on this shady Miami Boesch guy who everybody knew was providing PEDs to athletes--particularly those connected to the University of Miami, where Braun went to school.

 

First, we have no clue how much Braun http://actuallypaid this guy. All people have to go from is that the guy wrote on a piece of paper $20-30K. Not exactly hard evidence. If all it takes in court to collect payments is me writing something on a piece of paper paper then Bill Gates will soon be owing me alot of money. Braun and his lawyers make it seem like Bosch's contribution was negligible, so Braun's statement that there was a dispute as per money owed sounds plausible.

 

Second, you keep saying there is no reason for Braun's attorneys to spend any time or money consulting with a shady character, are you an attorney? Are you familiar with what is or is not standard practice for a defense case of this kind? Wendy Thurm, who was an attorney for 20 years and is now a baseball writer weighed in on this exact issue. She tweeted: "Why would Braun use Bosch? To assist with defense behind scenes & perform tasks the testifying experts can't do. Standard lawyer practice." Additionally she said, "How many PED "experts" were willing to help Braun in case against MLB? No one connected to official testing orgs would go near Braun's case." So yes, there is in fact a plausible explanation for Braun using a dirtbag as a consultant for his defense.

 

Once again, it is literally amazing how quick people are to jump to a verdict with the only evidence being three pieces of handwritten paper which contain vague references to Braun. While it is unsettling to know that a PED dealer even mentions Braun's name, it would be nice to actually wait for some context before deciding who is or is not guilty. We would expect nothing less for ourselves.

[brewcrew779]

Braun's lawyer was on the list as well, so what would he have to gain from taking PED's?

 

 

His lawyer's name was on the list? I'm not doubting your statement...I just don't remember hearing or reading about this before (I do tend to skim articles when reading).

 

Copied this from the Yahoo! article: " Later in the document are multiple mentions of Chris Lyons, one of Braun's attorneys during the 2011-12 offseason when he fought the positive test. When reached by Yahoo! Sports on Tuesday evening, Lyons declined comment."

[Patrick425]

Braun's lawyer was on the list as well, so what would he have to gain from taking PED's?

 

 

His lawyer's name was on the list? I'm not doubting your statement...I just don't remember hearing or reading about this before (I do tend to skim articles when reading).

 

Copied this from the Yahoo! article: " Later in the document are multiple mentions of Chris Lyons, one of Braun's attorneys during the 2011-12 offseason when he fought the positive test. When reached by Yahoo! Sports on Tuesday evening, Lyons declined comment."

 

 

Ok, I probably should have just gone back and re-read the original Yahoo story from yesterday. As I look at that story again, I don't understand what this is:

 

http://l.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/MC4Qahik.AIRsI80h0lAaQ--/YXBwaWQ9eW5ld3M7cT04NTt3PTMxMA--/http://l.yimg.com/j/assets/ipt/braunname2.jpg

 

Does it say "Dear Ryan, Congratulations on the MVP"? Doesn't seem like the article really talks about it or what it says. Would love to see a "deciphered" version of the letter. Also, why is it all crossed out? It's still fairly readable, so what was the purpose of doing that (by whoever did it)?

[Ennder]

I'd love to see one of these players pursue legal action against yahoo for this story. The did no background research, made no attempt to corroborate anything. They displayed no journalistic integrity at all in the situation, just blasted it out as soon as they got it to get hits on their site. I mean the miami news didn't release these names because there just was no proof of anything, they at least showed a bit of integrity.

[fondybrewfan]

From TH:

 

"David Cornwell, the lead attorney for the defense team that successfully appealed the positive drug test of Brewers leftfielder Ryan Braun last winter, issued a statement Tuesday night saying that Anthony Bosch's contributions were "negligible."

 

After Braun's name surfaced on the logs of the Miami anti-aging clinic linked to supplying baseball players with performance-enhanching drugs, Braun issued a statement saying his attorneys merely used Bosch, the clinic's operator, as a consultant in their defense planning for the arbitration hearing.

 

But Cornwell downplayed any contributions that Bosch made to that defense strategy, which ultimately overturned the positive test on a chain-of-custody dispute.

 

"In the 15 years that I have represented players facing discipline under the various professional sports leagues' substance abuse and steroid programs, I have relied primarily, if not exclusively, on Dr. David L. Black and his team of scientists at Aegis Sciences Corporation in Nashville, TN as my experts with respect to scientific and other matters relevant to the testing of player specimens," Cornwell's statement said.

 

"I was not familiar with Tony Bosch prior to Ryan Braun's case. Bosch was introduced to me at the earliest stage of Ryan's case.

 

"I found Bosch's value to be negligible and I followed my prior practice of relying on Aegis in the preparation of Ryan's winning defense."

 

Citing a source familiar with the appeal, the New York Times reported that Braun's defense team never mentioned Bosch's name during the hearing before an arbitration panel."

[ninja33]

I think that letter is addressed to "Juan", who represented (as his agent?) Melky Cabrera....likely after Cabrera won the all-star MVP.

[NYChez]

It says Dear Juan.

[Patrick425]

I think that letter is addressed to "Juan", who represented (as his agent?) Melky Cabrera....likely after Cabrera won the all-star MVP.

 

 

Ah, I see. I thought it looked more like "Juan", but I didn't know of any "Juan" that won the MVP.

[Patrick425]

From TH:

 

"David Cornwell, the lead attorney for the defense team......."I was not familiar with Tony Bosch prior to Ryan Braun's case. Bosch was introduced to me at the earliest stage of Ryan's case.

 

 

 

Well, this does not sound good as it pretty much contradicts what Braun said in his statement.

[ninja33]

how does it contradict it? It agrees with Braun's statement that they consulted Bosch.

 

The part that doesn't sound good is that it implies they didn't use Bosch for anything outside of some brief initial contact, so there probably isn't much of a paper trail to verify Braun's alibi.

[derflotr]

So, here's what happened, folks:

 

Ryan Braun, feeling awful proud after beating the system with his successful appeal of a positive test for PEDs last winter, walked into a shady PED clinic in Florida, thinking, "I'm invincible, I can get away with anything."

 

He goes up to the front counter and says, "Hi, my name is Ryan Braun of the Milwaukee Brewers, initials 'RB' for short, if you like. I'll take 20-30 thousand dollars worth of PEDs."

 

The guy says, "Well, that seems exorbitant. Ryan Braun, you say? Let me log that in our register."

 

He reaches into a dark corner of the desk beneath, uncrumples a piece of notebook paper, and documents the official transaction, scribbling 'RB: 20-30k'.

 

Braun says, "Yeah, I need PEDs for the rest of my career, right now. I buy in bulk, you know."

 

The guy shambles into the back room and returns with 20-30 thousand dollars worth of PEDs.

 

He goes, "Would you like a bag for this?"

 

Braun says, "No, I'll just back the truck up to the front door."

 

As the guy loads the final crate, Braun shouts, "Done yet?"

 

The guy, sweating profusely, gasps and mutters, "Yeah. Last one."

 

Braun says "Thanks, pay you later!" and squeals off, cackling with glee.

 

Seems plausible enough.

[Tailgat0r76]

Sounds like Cornwell is setting the stage for the relevation that there is absolutely no evidence that they used him as a consultant....

[Hitman_Hart]

[sarcasm]This has to be true! Why isn't TJ Quinn investigating this angle?[/sarcasm]

 

So, here's what happened, folks:

 

Ryan Braun, feeling awful proud after beating the system with his successful appeal of a positive test for PEDs last winter, walked into a shady PED clinic in Florida, thinking, "I'm invincible, I can get away with anything."

 

He goes up to the front counter and says, "Hi, my name is Ryan Braun of the Milwaukee Brewers, initials 'RB' for short, if you like. I'll take 20-30 thousand dollars worth of PEDs."

 

The guy says, "Well, that seems exhorbitant. Ryan Braun, you say? Let me log that in our register."

 

He reaches into a dark corner of the desk beneath, uncrumples a piece of notebook paper, and documents the official transaction, scribbling 'RB: 20-30k'.

 

Braun says, "Yeah, I need PEDs for the rest of my career, right now. I buy in bulk, you know."

 

The guy shambles into the back room and returns with 20-30 thousand dollars worth of PEDs.

 

He goes, "Would you like a bag for this?"

 

Braun says, "No, I'll just back the truck up to the front door."

 

As the guy loads the final crate, Braun shouts, "Done yet?"

 

The guy, sweating profusely, gasps and mutters, "Yeah. Last one."

 

Braun says "Thanks, pay you later!" and squeals off, cackling with glee.

 

Seems plausible enough.

[Patrick425]

how does it contradict it?

 

Braun: "During the course of preparing for my successful appeal last year, my attorneys, who were previously familiar with Tony Bosch, used him as a consultant."

 

Cornwall (Braun's lead attorney): "I was not familiar with Tony Bosch prior to Ryan Braun's case. Bosch was introduced to me at the earliest stage of Ryan's case."

[JackNicholson1974]

As a criminal defense attorney, if I had a client with deep pockets who was accused of taking some sort of designer drug found in a test at work with little other evidence to back up his use, the first "expert" I would look to retain to help me further understand and explain the evidence is someone who was tied to the production or distribution of such a drug. I would consult with them and say that my client is accused of taking X, the test shows Y, if he was taking X is the test result consistent with that, is the subsequent test taken that shows nothing consistent with that, etc etc.

 

Attorneys hire and consult with experts everyday, especially defense attorneys. Also, I wish people would stop saying that 20-30k is too much to pay for an expert and that if he paid that much there would be a large paper trial to back this up. Please do not forget that there is a dispute as to the money owed, which means Braun's team is saying that the 20-30k is not owed and the services not provided. That again makes sense. When a shady character like Bosch knows he is dealing with a rich client he is going to jack up any fee he can in hopes to get paid.

 

ESPN and YAHOO are in the business of selling stories, true or not. They are into page views, clicks, twitter trends, advertising dollars, etc etc. Remember, Rick Reilly wants everyone to know he had it first on twitter (not the Braun story, a dif example). If anything people need to exercise a little TFYQA, Think For Yourself, Question Authority. Just because some rich media outlets want this to be a huge story doesnt mean it is, they wouldnt sell anything if they reported that Braun was tied to the clinic but had a very reasonable explanation and until they know more they werent going to report on it.

[Hofbraunhaus]

From TH:

 

"David Cornwell, the lead attorney for the defense team......."I was not familiar with Tony Bosch prior to Ryan Braun's case. Bosch was introduced to me at the earliest stage of Ryan's case.

 

 

 

Well, this does not sound good as it pretty much contradicts what Braun said in his statement.

 

 

I don't think it contradicts his statement. Braun had a legal team working on his appeal, including Chris Lyons who is also on the list for money owed. It is entirely plausible that Lyons suggested consulting Bosch but Cornwell didn't think it was useful and possibly didn't even use it in the defense. They would likely still owe Bosch money and possibly dispute the amount owed.

[ninja33]

how does it contradict it?

 

Braun: "During the course of preparing for my successful appeal last year, my attorneys, who were previously familiar with Tony Bosch, used him as a consultant."

 

Cornwall (Braun's lead attorney): "I was not familiar with Tony Bosch prior to Ryan Braun's case. Bosch was introduced to me at the earliest stage of Ryan's case."

 

fair enough. but he had other attorneys (Lyons, referenced in the documents) who could have reached out initially before a guy like Cornwall said he didn't need anything from him, because he has his experts he uses from the lab in Nashville.

[Patrick425]

So, here's what happened, folks:

 

Ryan Braun, feeling awful proud after beating the system with his successful appeal of a positive test for PEDs last winter, walked into a shady PED clinic in Florida, thinking, "I'm invincible, I can get away with anything."

 

He goes up to the front counter and says, "Hi, my name is Ryan Braun of the Milwaukee Brewers, initials 'RB' for short, if you like. I'll take 20-30 thousand dollars worth of PEDs."

 

The guy says, "Well, that seems exorbitant. Ryan Braun, you say? Let me log that in our register."

 

He reaches into a dark corner of the desk beneath, uncrumples a piece of notebook paper, and documents the official transaction, scribbling 'RB: 20-30k'.

 

Braun says, "Yeah, I need PEDs for the rest of my career, right now. I buy in bulk, you know."

 

The guy shambles into the back room and returns with 20-30 thousand dollars worth of PEDs.

 

He goes, "Would you like a bag for this?"

 

Braun says, "No, I'll just back the truck up to the front door."

 

As the guy loads the final crate, Braun shouts, "Done yet?"

 

The guy, sweating profusely, gasps and mutters, "Yeah. Last one."

 

Braun says "Thanks, pay you later!" and squeals off, cackling with glee.

 

Seems plausible enough.

 

Problem with the point you are trying to make is that there is no date on any of the documents. The purchasing of $20K to $30K of PEDs could have happened over a number of years prior to Braun getting caught.

 

I really want to believe Braun, but I'm finding it harder and harder to do so.

[burnzy24]

how does it contradict it?

 

Braun: "During the course of preparing for my successful appeal last year, my attorneys, who were previously familiar with Tony Bosch, used him as a consultant."

 

Cornwall (Braun's lead attorney): "I was not familiar with Tony Bosch prior to Ryan Braun's case. Bosch was introduced to me at the earliest stage of Ryan's case."

 

 

 

Braun hired attorneys, not just Cornwall. Just because one attorney didn't know of Bosch doesn't make Braun's statement false. The other 2+ attorneys he hired knew of him because they were the ones to actually introduce Bosch to Cornwall.