Newest PED scandal: Braun named in Biogenesis clinic records (Reply #365: Additional mention found)

[thebruce44]

I'm not really a scientist, but that's irrelevant to the fact that urine is no longer sterile as soon as it leaves the body.

 

A properly collected urine sample is still sterile. If Braun's or anyone's sample has bacteria or yeast in it, it means either they have an infection, or it was contaminated. That does not mean analytes in the sterile sample won't break down over time and temperature (it depends on the analyte) to yield errant results.

 

Its my understanding that the word "sterile" in a scientific sense means free from living germs or microorganisms.

 

Urine is a sterile liquid as it exits the bladder. One simple Google search will inform anyone, with a scientific background or not, that urine collected outside of the human body is no longer sterile. There is simply no way to do it. Urine as it enters the urethra becomes un sterile, and it picks up additional bacteria as it exits the body. Once in a cup, sitting at room temperature, it further breaks down into additional compounds.

 

From some quick Google searches, urine contains urea, creatine, sodium, ammonia, enzymes, and many other compounds. A sample would also contain whatever was introduced in the air and whatever was already in the cup. I have a hard time believing that a test that looks for the concentration of individual compounds couldn't be effected at all by allowing these compounds to stew together for a weekend in unregulated temperatures. Especially since we were told the results of a failed test were repeatable.

 

FWIW, I find Braun's explanation plausible and I hope he's vindicated in some way. I will also reserve my judgement until he's convicted/suspended (concrete evidence surfaces), or he admits his use. Unfortunately, as others have echoed, I don't think either will happen.

 

I was merely disputing points written as facts by another poster.

 

Hypothetically, lets just say a 3 panel jury was given all of the relevant information, much more than has been provided to any of us, and they decided the results did not prove Braun had PEDs in his body. Would this far out fantasy be some type of vindication?

[The stache]

No, because he got off on a (finger quotes) "technicality".

[narwhalattack]

The funny thing about this whole "technicality" thing is that there's a reason why those the procedures are in place. A lot can go wrong when handing evidence.

[DHonks]

Surprised nobody mentioned the JSonline story posted last night that says that MLB's investigation into the leak of a positive Braun test revealed that a clinic the defense used for consultation in Florida is the one that leaked the news. If I'm Braun's camp, there's a reason we never paid the bill and that's because of breach of contract. If I'm this Bosch guy, of course I'd be upset and want my $20-30k.

 

 

What story are you talking about? There was this one from Haudricourt that was in the paper this morning, but I don't see anywhere in here that suggests that the clinic is leaking the info:

 

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/brewers/brauns-team-must-go-to-bat-for-him-5n8ptnv-191567531.html

 

I don't agree with everything Haudricourt states in this article, but I believe in the overall message, especially the last line:

 

Leak by leak, your client is dying a slow public relations death. What are you waiting for?

 

Patrick425, you linked to the article but apparently you didn't read it.

 

"An MLB investigation last year determined the original leak of Braun's positive drug test came from someone his defense team consulted in Florida, so you have to wonder what's going on down there."

 

That pretty much says the clinic leaked the info.

 

Additionally, why doesn't Braun get American justice? Why is he guilty till proven innocent. I'm sorry, but people need to let these events sort themselves out. Braun is presumed innocent. No more amateur Monday morning quarterbacking

[brewmann04]

Time to put this to rest till the final outcome comes out.

[logan82]

That pretty much says the clinic leaked the info.

No, it says a clinic in Florida. We don't know for sure it was Bosch.

 

Additionally, why doesn't Braun get American justice? Why is he guilty till proven innocent. I'm sorry, but people need to let these events sort themselves out.

He is a public figure. This is how things, unfortunately, work.

[cnycerveceros]

I understand the responses to my post and think they are valid. It's not so much that Braun cheated as much as now I suspect he lied and is lying. I never thought that last year. im not in the 'technicality' campIt's true we don't know, but odds are we won't ever know.

 

FWIW, baseball is the last sport I care about. I haven't watched any other sport seriously for years. I don't need it to be pure, but I'd like it not to be a scandal all the time. It's as much sport coverage, if not more, as it is the sport itself. There are plenty of other reasons I've overlooked over the years, so I guess what I'm saying is that subjectively, Braun is the last straw. It's always been going on, but it's never before been the best player ( arguably all time) on the team I care about.

 

Oh, and no offense at being called stupid!

[cnycerveceros]

Oh, actually I don't like the maximized earning potential argument. It's going to take me 330 years to make what these guys make. How much more do they need?!

[pebadger]

The 'funniest' thing of all about the whole "technicality" bit?

 

Nobody other than the arbitration panel knows, and likely nobody will ever know, why Braun won his appeal because MLB and MLBPA quashed a written decision.

 

And yet it's been repeated and repeated and repeated and repeated so often that people think they know what happened with the appeal when in fact nobody really knows anything. The fact that the media has done this, and continues to do this, is a travesty.

 

By the way, Passan is the one who stirred up the entire recent spurt of activity. The New Times in Miami didn't mention one word about Braun in their piece on Biogenesis. Go back to read Passan's work right after Braun won the appeal. Go back to out previous mega-thread and read about Passan there. Then tell me with a straight face that that guy doesn't have an agenda in play.

[3and2Fastball]

call me a Ryan Braun Kool-Aid drinker, but I continue to believe what Braun has to say about this subject. I'm biased, he's my favorite player of all-time, but yeah I believe him

[jwill535]

Oh, actually I don't like the maximized earning potential argument. It's going to take me 330 years to make what these guys make. How much more do they need?!

 

 

Because as Patrick Ewing so bluntly put it, "We make a lot of money, but we spend a lot of money". You can never be rich enough. I remember when I was working construction in college making $12 hr and thought to myself that if I were making $15 a hr I would be set. The next year I made $15 and thought, if I made $20 hr I would be living the dream. I then got there and then it was the next amount etc. Now that is on a smaller scale, but you can never have enough.

[brewmann04]

It going all be coming out soon just hope braunie does not turn into a raffie palmerio

[dlk9s]

It going all be coming out soon just hope braunie does not turn into a raffie palmerio

When I first read this, I thought you said "raffle promo." I thought that sounded like fun.

[dhoffman19]

The 'funniest' thing of all about the whole "technicality" bit?

 

Nobody other than the arbitration panel knows, and likely nobody will ever know, why Braun won his appeal because MLB and MLBPA quashed a written decision.

 

And yet it's been repeated and repeated and repeated and repeated so often that people think they know what happened with the appeal when in fact nobody really knows anything. The fact that the media has done this, and continues to do this, is a travesty.

 

By the way, Passan is the one who stirred up the entire recent spurt of activity. The New Times in Miami didn't mention one word about Braun in their piece on Biogenesis. Go back to read Passan's work right after Braun won the appeal. Go back to out previous mega-thread and read about Passan there. Then tell me with a straight face that that guy doesn't have an agenda in play.

 

Absolutely right about Passan. For example, he reported the sample was stored in a "cooler," in the guy's basement, making it seem like it was climate controlled - when in fact that was not the case - it was just a tupperware container I think. I called him on that in an email, and he said I was "splitting hairs." Passan's a young guy trying hard to make a name for himself, and he's succeeding with things like this.

[RightFieldCoder]

Passan plagiarizes most of his articles. I don't read them and try to find the originals.

[brewmann04]

That why you can never trust reporters.

[pogokat]

on that note, espn announces today that Gio Gonzalez didn't buy illegal supplements from biogenesis...so, im sure everyone will forget about this and move on...

[The stache]

Absolutely right about Passan. For example, he reported the sample was stored in a "cooler," in the guy's basement, making it seem like it was climate controlled - when in fact that was not the case - it was just a tupperware container I think. I called him on that in an email, and he said I was "splitting hairs." Passan's a young guy trying hard to make a name for himself, and he's succeeding with things like this.

 

It was a Rubbermaid container, and no, it was not placed in any refrigerator, or cooler, per Laurenzi's own statement:

 

"The FedEx Clinic Pack containing Mr. Braun's samples never left my custody. Consistent with CDT's instructions, I brought the FedEx Clinic Pack containing the samples to my home. Immediately upon arriving home, I placed the FedEx Clinic Pack in a Rubbermaid container in my office which is located in my basement. My basement office is sufficiently cool to store urine samples.

 

http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/7625756/statement-dino-laurenzi-jr-collected-samples-ryan-braun-case

[Fear The Chorizo]

also looking like as each day passes, the list of players being named in these records is growing - yet little to no details about how these players are connected to Bosch, or Biogenesis...turning into the complete witch hunt of shoot first, aim later that I figured it was going to be once media outlets with agendas started getting their hands on bits and pieces of documents.

 

When is the story going to get written that clinics similar to Biogenesis provide LEGAL supplements to professional athletes in all of the sports? The list is going to be so watered down with players who haven't violated any testing policy that the investigation is going to result in no suspensions or discipline of any kind. The media will blame MLB for not busting anyone, but the media will be the actual culprit.

[Ennder]

This entire process has just proven that journalists have no integrity left and that ESPN should die in a fire for being grubby little rating whores.

[xisxisxis]

This entire process has just proven that journalists have no integrity left and that ESPN should die in a fire for being grubby little rating whores.

 

That's a broad generalization to say journalists have no integrity. It's clear some don't and given the explosion of outlets of information provided by the internet it's clear you won't have the same standards across the board. In the most recent Biogenesis issue it was clear that the New Times was acting responsibly and they are an old fashioned media outlet while the internet only company clearly lacks journalistic integrity.

[trwi7]

I think it's clear Outside the Lines is awful. They were awful with Braun last year. They ran with the Miami New Times story this year, outed Braun again even though there was no clear evidence which is why the Miami New Times story didn't name him. Then they find out that Gio Gonzalez did go to this place but none of the substances he bought were banned by MLB (oops, our bad) to make up for it, here's a list of five other players linked to here.

[CheezWizHed]

My guess is that when the evidence comes out to the general public, we will find that the list of names that links most of these players to BioGenesis is from the owner's Fantasy Baseball team...

[reillymcshane]

This entire process has just proven that journalists have no integrity left and that ESPN should die in a fire for being grubby little rating whores.

I have met some amazing men and women who are journalists. Most are honest, hardworking and dedicated to their craft. Unfortunately, most of the 'journalists' we see are people aiming for ratings and not the truth. Lumping them all together is doing them a disservice.

[brewmann04]

Innocent to PROVEN GUILTY is not for ESPN