Newest PED scandal: Braun named in Biogenesis clinic records (Reply #365: Additional mention found)

[JackNicholson1974]

Ryan Braun is my favorite player. I am so sick of this for two years in a row I wish they would just trade him and rebuild. Seriously, it is so annoying and embarrassing. Trade him.

[Raw Biz]

Ryan Braun is my favorite player. I am so sick of this for two years in a row I wish they would just trade him and rebuild. Seriously, it is so annoying and embarrassing. Trade him.

 

You must be joking. All this is is speculation. MLB really doesn't even have a case to suspend him yet, even if they wanted to. They are going to need more than just his name on a piece of paper.

[JackNicholson1974]

Im not, Im just sick of it. I was critical of Sosa,McGwire and Bonds, it would be hypocritical of me to give Braun a pass. I gave him a pass after he won his appeal last year, I believed the story about using Bosch as a consultant, but Im just getting sick of this. He is already going to be 29, they could get a haul for him and we could rebuild pretty spectacularly. Im just tired of it.

[Tim_Unroe_Helped]

I totally understand the feeling. I was very critical of Bonds, McGwire, Sosa, Clemens, etc. and I really don't want to be hypocritical. It's also tough to see his name brought up as the face of the Brewers' franchise and have everybody trash him (rightfully or wrongfully, none of us really know at this point). I'd have a hard time cheering for him (and yes, I know probably at least a third of Major League baseball players use PEDs anyways... it's still hard to take it when it's your team's star player). What if he's found guilty and later in the year, he comes up in a big situation at a game? I don't want to cheer against my team but I also don't want to cheer for a cheater.

 

For the time being, I honestly think he's guilty but will treat him as innocent until actually proven guilty. If he's actually innocent of everything, it seems like every little bit of bad luck caught him in this case. The evidence against him doesn't seem complete this time around but I would think that if he's telling the truth, there'd be very strong evidence on his side. If he's guilty, not only did he cheat, but he also lied about it and, much like Lance Armstrong, threw other people under the bus (directly and indirectly) to hide his lie. That's not the kind of guy I want to be the face of our franchise.

[Raw Biz]

I would hate for a lot of you to be on any jury I'm involved with. I get that people are skeptical. Fine. But to say that you want to trade him and you could never cheer for him again, all because his name was written down on some piece of paper. That's just ridiculous and everything is complete speculation.

[xisxisxis]

i want to throw my baby out with the bath-water.....

[tomwopat]

Regardless of whether he's actually guilty or not, this is the final nail in the coffin as far as the court of public opinion is concerned.

[davego]

I'm not sure what anyone have "proved" Ryan guilty of?

[RockCoCougars]

The key to this whole thing is that Bosch guy. If he has a story to tell, I guarantee that he will write a book, because his days of making money from his 'anti-aging' clinics are over. I'd be all for putting him on the Maury show hooked up to a lie detector.

[JimH5]

I think Braun needs a friendly media, and stonewalling isn't a way to make friends.

 

He says he's open to MLB investigators, so has he provided anything directly to them? Has he met with them to clear his name?

 

If he has, he's not saying. So again, he's left himself with the cloud of suspicion over him.

 

And now that ESPN is onto some new info, that might get other news outlets involved, to see if they can scoop them.

 

It feels like Braun is the fox and hounds are on the scent.

[Crew2323]

Honest question: Why, when football players (see Neal, Mike; Sherman, Richard et al) or basketball players (see Turkoglu, Hedo; Lewis, Rashard et al) are busted for banned substances it's barely a news story and no one condemns them, but a baseball player is weakly linked to PED's or assumed to be on them with no proof and he's the devil incarnate? And don't give the answer "because a lot of baseball players have been busted." That's too simplistic.

[JackNicholson1974]

Im not saying he is guilty until proven innocent,I am saying I am sick of this. I want to focus on baseball, not see a headline on every sports site I visit that says something to the effect o "More documents link Braun to PEDs"

 

He is my favorite player and I am not saying he should be suspended, that I will boo him or that he is guilty. Just that for TWO off seasons in a row, as a fan, I have to listen to this BS and I am sick of it. It isnt going to stop, so get rid of him, get a handsome return, who knows, it could lead to the BRewers winning something.

[trwi7]

Honest question: Why, when football players (see Neal, Mike; Sherman, Richard et al) or basketball players (see Turkoglu, Hedo; Lewis, Rashard et al) are busted for banned substances it's barely a news story and no one condemns them, but a baseball player is weakly linked to PED's or assumed to be on them with no proof and he's the devil incarnate? And don't give the answer "because a lot of baseball players have been busted." That's too simplistic.

 

Because Congress in all of their wisdom thought steroids in baseball was a subject they had to stick their noses in which led to all those hearings.

[brewers19]

As long as he continues to OPS near 1.000 and isn't actually suspended for anything by baseball, I want him on my team. Drama sucks, but it's not a good enough reason to get rid of one of the best players in baseball.

[clancyphile]

I'm ready for the drama to end, too. I'm ready for the PED witch-hunting to end, too.

 

If they don't have any proof beyond a few mentions - mentions that Braun and his legal team have already provided, then they need to let it go.

[torts]

he was tested far more than any other year last year too, though blood testing was only done in spring training, urine testing was done more frequently for him last year (more than likely as per the MLB CBA/Joint Drug Policy thingy for positive test results regardless of suspension). if whatever drug he took only shows up through blood tests, that makes sense why he waited until april.

 

my take on the $1,500 owed is that Bosch and Braun went to a fancy dinner, Braun no-showed, and Bosch ran up the tab and claims Braun owes him. what a jerk.

[dlk9s]

I'm thinking it was a "Hangover" situation. Braun and Cervelli need to go around Miami piecing together their crazy night.

[The stache]

I am so flipping tired of the little "internet scientists" reverting back to the "Braun got off on a technicality" meme.

 

Either people are too stupid, or too lazy, to learn what happens to a urine sample when it's allowed to sit out at room temperature for two days, and by extension, they cannot grasp why exactly an uncompromised sample is of paramount importance in drug testing.

 

"Well the seal on the sample was still intact, derp derp, so the sample was good".

 

Urine cannot sit out for 44 hours, and yield accurate test results. It is a scientific impossibility. Why? Because urine is not inert. In a closed sample, after 8 to 10 hours, the liquid will begin to warm as bacteria grows. Bacterial growth leads to the cellular breakdown. When this happens, liquid evaporates, and the ph factor changes. The exact same thing happened in Diane Modahl's case, and her team was able to prove that the sample sat out at the lab, causing the urine to degrade.

 

There were at least five FedEx locations within five miles of the stadium that were open until 9 p.m. and an additional FedEx location that was open for 24 hours. There were upwards of 18 or 19 FedEx locations that were open between the ballpark and his house that he could have dropped the samples off at.

 

That's a quote from Ryan Braun at his press conference. The assertion by Dino Laurenzi that there were no Fed Ex locations open after 5pm is a crock. Then on the Monday after he collected the sample, he couldn't be bothered to get to Fed Ex until nearly 2 pm.

 

From the time Ryan Braun's piss left Miller Park, the entire process was a comedy of errors. And I am so bleeping tired of ESPN's throwing feces against the wall every day, hoping that something sticks. Either show proof that he did something that warrants a suspension by MLB, or STFU.

[JimH5]

That kind of passion is what I wish Braun would use in making his own defense.

 

Good one, 'stache.

[Invader3K]

Yeah, I'm kind of disappointed that some fans are ready to run Braun out of town on a rail based on some flimsy pieces of notebook paper not given any further context.

 

He's the greatest player this franchise has ever seen. I'll put up with a bit of manufactured drama from a future Hall of Fame caliber player. The loser types can boo him. I don't care.

[RockCoCougars]

Honest question: Why, when football players (see Neal, Mike; Sherman, Richard et al) or basketball players (see Turkoglu, Hedo; Lewis, Rashard et al) are busted for banned substances it's barely a news story and no one condemns them, but a baseball player is weakly linked to PED's or assumed to be on them with no proof and he's the devil incarnate? And don't give the answer "because a lot of baseball players have been busted." That's too simplistic.

 

Because baseball had by far the richest history of any of these sports, especially when it came to stats/records. Next thing you know, guys are sticking needles in their buttocks and they are doing things to in effect ruin these stats by watering down many records by putting up video game numbers.

[BrewCrewForever]

the stache, that was fantastic. Great post.

 

Is it 100% proven that this clinic provided PED's for anyone? Is it possible that Bosch was providing players with legal supplements? I thought that is what Gio Gonzalez case was. That does not seem to be Braun's case as he said he does not know Bosch and was only used for consulting his successful appeal. But is it possible that A-Rod, Melky, etc were getting legal stuff from him?

[fleehaw]

I am so flipping tired of the little "internet scientists" reverting back to the "Braun got off on a technicality" meme.

 

Urine cannot sit out for 44 hours, and yield accurate test results. It is a scientific impossibility. Why? Because urine is not inert. In a closed sample, after 8 to 10 hours, the liquid will begin to warm as bacteria grows. Bacterial growth leads to the cellular breakdown. When this happens, liquid evaporates, and the ph factor changes. The exact same thing happened in Diane Modahl's case, and her team was able to prove that the sample sat out at the lab, causing the urine to degrade.

 

Urine is sterile, and a properly collected urine sample will be sterile (unless you have a UTI). In a properly sealed sample, there won't be any evaporation. And yes, I'm an actual scientist.

[fondybrewfan]

Frankly I don't think I even care if he did it anymore. 90% of people outside if WI thinks he is a cheater; probably about 50/50 in WI. As long as he produces and leads to winning baseball I don't really care. He proved last year either that he never used it or that he probably never needed it in the first place. Or of course that he just knows how to not get caught. I don't idolize any player in any sport enough to to be offended if they doesn't win another MVP or doesn't make the HOF.

[Crew2323]

Because baseball had by far the richest history of any of these sports, especially when it came to stats/records. Next thing you know, guys are sticking needles in their buttocks and they are doing things to in effect ruin these stats by watering down many records by putting up video game numbers.

 

But baseball didn't have a problem with guys sticking needles in their butts in the mid to late 90's, not when it helped boost ratings, not when it helped put butts in the seats, not when owners were giving stupid money to the players who were doing it. So who is really at fault for the "drug culture" in MLB? Is it the players? Or is it MLB and the owners? In my opinion, MLB and the owners allowed and ultimately encouraged this kind of culture to thrive just by turning a blind eye. What you permit, you promote. And now, the players are being punished for the sins of their hypocritical bosses even with only the flimsiest "connection" to PED's.