Newest PED scandal: Braun named in Biogenesis clinic records (Reply #365: Additional mention found)

[Outlander]

If he is innocent he can prove it down the road it won't be forever. If he doesn't prove it by the time he retires i will assume then he is guilty.

[razzzorsharp]

The good news is this doesn't seem to be news (anymore).

[TheCrew07]

The whole angle of Bosch being initial leak is pretty intriguing, I must admit I've been thinking about it most of the day and the more I consider it, the harder it is to dismiss.

[The stache]

Have we heard a single person come out and say "I saw Ryan Braun injecting himself", or "I supplied an illegal substance to Braun"? On the record, or even on the condition of anonymity? No. It's amazing to me in an investigation of this magnitude, there hasn't been one single person to speak out against him. Rumors have a way of finding the light of day, yet when it comes to Braun, none of these rumors exist.

 

Braun could have used. He might be completely clean. But I find the lack of "chatter" about him, so to speak, to be somewhat curious. And this latest "link" (which I consider tenuous at best) does not list any type of medication, or supplement next to his name when every other player has precisely that.

 

Do I want to believe in Braun's innocence? Absolutely. Am I a homer for giving him the benefit of the doubt until we learn conclusively that he did or did not do something wrong? No. There's a world of difference between blindly accepting conjecture as fact, and looking at all the information (or lack thereof) dispassionately. I'm not a lawyer, but the first three years I was in college I was pre law. I spent hundreds of hours in Lexis and Westlaw researching cases. I worked for a criminal trial lawyer, and learned the ins and outs of the system. What we need to remember is that it's our curiosity, our "need to know" that is not being satiated here. In the grand scheme of things, that's not at all important. Braun's future as a player is at stake, and if he's innocent, eventually that will come out. It will suck that every pinhead with internet access will trash his name left and right, but do we really care about what any of these mouth breathers think?

 

As I referenced earlier, there are reasons why Ryan has not, or cannot, speak out, and provide the information that might otherwise exonerate him forever. There are legalities in place that we would not understand. It sucks for Ryan if he is indeed innocent, because while this one source "leaked" confidential test results, confidentiality still applies, and Ryan cannot sit down with a journalist, and connect the dots, so to speak, without violating the provision contained within binding arbitration. However, lacking that, common sense dictates that there's nothing really damning to make me think he's guilty. All we have is a leaked report about one questionable test. We're unable to confirm the veracity of the information we have read, or question the reliability of the source. That is fact. We know, also, that strict procedures agreed upon by MLB and the player's union were not followed. Once that is determined, the biological sample in question is unreliable. When questions about chain of custody, or handling protocols exist, the biological sample in question should be immediately disqualified. The collector of Braun's sample understood the established guidelines, and choose not to follow them, even though there were several locations where he could have deposited the sample as required by his position. Why?

[pebadger]

I've never used an illegal drug in my life. Never even took a puff off a joint. If one of you accuses me of having done so, and your accusation is accepted as truth by the public at large, what evidence can I possibly provide to prove that I'm not lying?

[The stache]

I've never used an illegal drug in my life. Never even took a puff off a joint. If one of you accuses me of having done so, and your accusation is accepted as truth by the public at large, what evidence can I possibly provide to prove that I'm not lying?

 

Exactly. There's nothing you really can do. Once that smell is on you, deserved or not, no matter what you do, it will never go away. Braun's public statements, which could be 100% truthful, are greeted with hostility, and disbelief. His silence in other areas, even if mandated by binding arbitration, is further evidence of his guilt in the eyes of many.

 

As I said, once his test result was made public, Ryan was put in an untenable position.

[dhoffman19]

I think (unless I missed something more definitive), that the "$20-30 grand" is only from Bosch's notes - in other words, what he wanted to collect from Braun. It may have no basis in reality, and Braun's camp may never have agreed to pay him that much - hence the dispute.

 

But your arguement really has no basis in reality either. Braun has not shown any evidence he really used Bosch for consultation. Until I see any real evidence I will assume that money was for PED's. He will have to prove his innocence before I believe anything he's saying. Talk is cheap.

 

I'm not making an argument. Just stating what is known and what isn't. We don't even know he owed Bosch 20-30 grand. You assume whatever you want.

[markedman5]

He doesn't have to prove he didn't use.

 

If he used the guy for consulting services (as he claims) there should be a paper trail that his attorney can produce to prove that they did meet and the purpose of the meeting. Dates, invoices...notes etc.

 

Braun has said he would cooperate fully........produce the documents.

[Crew2323]

He doesn't have to prove he didn't use.

 

If he used the guy for consulting services (as he claims) there should be a paper trail that his attorney can produce to prove that they did meet and the purpose of the meeting. Dates, invoices...notes etc.

 

Braun has said he would cooperate fully........produce the documents.

 

I would suggest you read J.P Breen's piece referenced above as to why Braun shouldn't and won't produce any documentation.

 

I find it hard to believe that Braun's connection to Bosch--however small it may be--is something new to MLB, especially if they investigated who leaked his initial positive test. Since I highly doubt MLB would want such a leak on a positive test again, I have to believe that MLB did their due diligence in this matter to find out where the leak came from. Assuming they did, that would mean they had to have some idea of who leaked Braun's positive, hence they had some idea about Bosch. If so, might that explain why they were able to bust Cabrera, Colon, and Grandal last year? I know the testing is random, but it's an interesting thought.

[Raw Biz]

He doesn't have to prove he didn't use.

 

If he used the guy for consulting services (as he claims) there should be a paper trail that his attorney can produce to prove that they did meet and the purpose of the meeting. Dates, invoices...notes etc.

 

Braun has said he would cooperate fully........produce the documents.

 

It's called attorney work-product and it is privileged. Sure Braun could waive the confidentiality but that could open him up for problems down the road. There are articles out there explaining a lot of the legalities and nuances of the situation and explaining why it isn't as easy as just "producing the documents." Either people aren't reading them or Braun has always been guilty in their minds (or both).

[dlk9s]

BREAKING: The leak was Ronaiah Tuiasosopo.

[brettac1]

He sort of left himself open to stuff like this because he really didn't produce any explanation for the failed test in the first place. So, for people who think he is a PED user, this is just another (possible) thing in that column.

[logan82]

Assuming they did, that would mean they had to have some idea of who leaked Braun's positive, hence they had some idea about Bosch.

Maybe I misread this but just to be clear, Bosch may or may not be the leak. It is just speculation but would explain a lot.

 

I am actually more interested if people care or not about athletes using performance enhancing drugs. I really don't as long as there is a show of major sports caring so that kids don't use them as much. If there was a way to keep sports 100% clean I would be all for that. However, I believe and accept that the athletes will always be a step or two ahead of the testers. At this point I think you have to keep it in the back of your mind there is a good chance that your favorite athlete is using something to gain an edge that may not be legal or at the very least not within the spirit of the rules.

[RobDeer 45]

Boy Bob Costas really got after Braun today on Mike and Mike. Same thing as others were saying, you wouldn't use this dude to get info from.

[JackNicholson1974]

So now Bob Costas knows the best way to put on a legal defense?

[brwrsfan]

I love how we have actual lawyers saying it makes perfect sense to use him. That when you have almost an unlimited amount of money for a defense, they can reach out to just about anyone they want. Including someone that might have information about how tests are done, tainted, etc. Not only that, but as far as I know, last year at this time, the place was thought to be a legit establishment?

 

So lawyers say it makes perfect sense, but sportswriters and guys like Bob Costas appparently know better.

[Outlander]

I've never used an illegal drug in my life. Never even took a puff off a joint. If one of you accuses me of having done so, and your accusation is accepted as truth by the public at large, what evidence can I possibly provide to prove that I'm not lying?

I would agree with you but Braun himself has said there is more to the story, if he said something similar to your post I would not expect some sort of explanation someday.

[I Heart Brewers]

I don't care about chain of custody or whether or not he use Bosch as a consultant. This all goes back to why he originally failed the drug test administered by MLB.

 

Per dlk9s Braun said, "Following my foot injury in March 2011, I consulted with a number of experts, including Biogenesis clinic, for legal ways to aid my rehab and recovery. I purchased supplements that I am certain were not prohibited by MLB."

 

If he was certain then why didn't he consult MLB?

 

Guilty or not, it shines a light on a much greater epidemic in professional sports. There is too much money out there to play by the rules. Either we as fans accept that truth and allow athletes to use advantages they already are or take the money out of it. Something tells me that the latter ain't happening.

[Raw Biz]

I don't care about chain of custody or whether or not he use Bosch as a consultant. This all goes back to why he originally failed the drug test administered by MLB.

 

Per dlk9s Braun said, "Following my foot injury in March 2011, I consulted with a number of experts, including Biogenesis clinic, for legal ways to aid my rehab and recovery. I purchased supplements that I am certain were not prohibited by MLB."

 

If he was certain then why didn't he consult MLB?

 

Guilty or not, it shines a light on a much greater epidemic in professional sports. There is too much money out there to play by the rules. Either we as fans accept that truth and allow athletes to use advantages they already are or take the money out of it. Something tells me that the latter ain't happening.

 

Read that post again. He wasn't quoting Braun, he was quoting another player connected with the clinic. Braun never even had a foot injury (that I'm aware of anyway).

[hawing]

Per dlk9s Braun said, "Following my foot injury in March 2011, I consulted with a number of experts, including Biogenesis clinic, for legal ways to aid my rehab and recovery. I purchased supplements that I am certain were not prohibited by MLB."

The "foot injury" quote is from Francisco Cervelli, not Ryan. Link

[I Heart Brewers]

Read that post again. He wasn't quoting Braun, he was quoting another player connected with the clinic. Braun never even had a foot injury (that I'm aware of anyway).

 

 

Got it, clearly I didn't do my homework. But I know Braun had struggled with the intercoastal injury as well as some others so I thought maybe he had used Biogenesis for help in that regard?

 

Either way, he did fail a test and won based on chain of custody, not because it was proved that the drug he tested positive for were okay'd by MLB.

 

I guess my major point is that Braun is just an example of the epidemic not the sole person to point the finger at.

[brewmann04]

Bob Costas who i like but he does like to blow his own horn once in a while.

[Crew2323]

Assuming they did, that would mean they had to have some idea of who leaked Braun's positive, hence they had some idea about Bosch.

Maybe I misread this but just to be clear, Bosch may or may not be the leak. It is just speculation but would explain a lot.

 

What I said there was just speculation on my part, not anything concrete. I can see how it might be taken the other way though.

 

I haven't listened to the Costas interview and I don't plan on listening. But it seems like he has become one of the most self-righteous blowhards in sports media the last couple years. The thing is, I really like listening to him because of his baseball knowledge. But he's really become off-putting with his PED pulpit pounding.

[dlk9s]

Bob Costas went from a GOAT broadcaster to holier-than-thou blowhard who makes Rick Reilly palatable.

[markedman5]

So in other words Braun said he would cooperate fully but really his defense is "take my word for it"?

 

I understand it's privileged but he can't have it both ways......You can't say you will cooperate fully and then not do anything to show that your explanation is true.

 

 

He doesn't have to prove he didn't use.

 

If he used the guy for consulting services (as he claims) there should be a paper trail that his attorney can produce to prove that they did meet and the purpose of the meeting. Dates, invoices...notes etc.

 

Braun has said he would cooperate fully........produce the documents.

 

It's called attorney work-product and it is privileged. Sure Braun could waive the confidentiality but that could open him up for problems down the road. There are articles out there explaining a lot of the legalities and nuances of the situation and explaining why it isn't as easy as just "producing the documents." Either people aren't reading them or Braun has always been guilty in their minds (or both).