Maldonado and Lucroy?

[brewcrewdue80]

5 more years of both these Catchers. Right? Oh, we needn't forget there's a 1st rd pick Clint Coulter who's likely to push his way up the Organization ladder.

 

How long do you keep it that way? Lucroy then Maldy as backup? Easily next 2seasons right? This is assuming Maldonado hits like 2012 or improves.

 

Or do you have one of them available for trade? Do you run it all the way through 5years? with Coulter in the midst to extend this Catcher prowess the Brewers have with Maldy and Coulter then another 2years locking up a great 2man tandem behind the plate for 7seasons?

 

Let's say Maldonado is around his 2012 stats on avg the next 2 years. Now a team wants him as their full-time catcher rather than backup. What are we thinking it takes to pry away Maldonado?

 

Just curious what BF think is a proper return on a defensive catcher with occasional flashes of pop?

[monty57]

I wouldn't make any decisions based on Coulter. There are a lot of posters here who follow prospects closer than I, but it seems to me that the Brewers picked up Coulter for his bat, and not his ability as a catcher. It'd be nice if he makes it as a catcher, but he could easily be moved out of the position.

 

As to Lucroy and Maldonado, catcher is the one (non-pitching) position where you can have two good players and they'll both get playing time. Maldonado still has to prove himself, and something like a 70/30 split will give him a good share of ABs, while keeping Lucroy fresh througout the season. I certainly don't want to trade away Maldonado unless someone really overpays, as we don't have much depth at the position beyond the MLB level.

 

Who knows what the future will bring. If both remain healthy and productive, and we have someone come up from the farm who will make a good backup (or even a starter), then we trade one of Lucroy / Maldonado. Until then, I'm happy to have two good, young, inexpensive options at catcher instead of our normal zero.

[KCBrewerfan34]

If LuCroy could be traded for a really good #2 starter I would have to strongly consider it. hard to put a value on Maldy, he looks really good on both sides of the plate to me, that has to be worth something pretty good, teams always want catching.

[RightFieldCoder]

Remember that we had Brett Lawrie as a C prospect at one time. Then Lawrie was going to press Weeks out of a job. I would wait until Coulter is at least in AAA before you make organizational plans at his position. He might flame out in AA. He might have knee problems that force a position change. There are just too many variables to trade away a MLB C now.

[umphrey]

Lucroy was one of our best players last year, even though he missed time, so we need to do whatever is best to keep his healthy bat in the lineup as much as possible. I'm not sure if a 4/1 or 3/2 split would be best for that, or maybe they could give Lucroy off on Sundays and Wednesdays or something. I think people here overrate Maldanado's trade value. His minor league numbers aren't that strong, and most teams wouldn't look at him as a target for their catcher of the future. I can't really imagine a trade for him that would improve this team for 2013, or make a significant contribution to our farm at this point in time.

[endaround]

The difference between a good backup catcher and an average back up catcher over 50 games is not very big. And back up catchers are cheap. If you get an offer of a potential starting player for Maldonado you jump on it.

[MNBrew]

I think you enjoy the (MLB) depth rather than figure out how to get rid of it. Talk about no safety net!

 

Trade Maldonado and you're one Lucroy injury away from Blake Lalli or Jorge Fabregas or some other black hole as your everyday starting C. That thought alone squashes any appeal to trading either one of those guys for at least a couple years.

 

In that scenario I'd rather have Casey McGehee back as utility IF and emergency C, a thought which I'm sure scares most regular BF.net posters (not to mention his new Japanese team re: the thought of playing without him).

[Invader3K]

I just think good (and cheap!) catching is so hard to come by these days that I'd have to be blown away by an offer to trade either one. There are reasons the Rod Barajas and Henry Blanco types still have jobs.

[brewcrewdue80]

I just think good (and cheap!) catching is so hard to come by these days that I'd have to be blown away by an offer to trade either one. There are reasons the Rod Barajas and Henry Blanco types still have jobs.

 

This reasoning is why I think I do over evaluate Maldonados value for trade. He has 6years of team control. Maybe a salary restricted team in desperate need of a serviceable catcher throws a SP who's 1/2yrs in with 3-4years team control your way. Say like Atlanta who has McCann and then who(found Gerard Laird)? What if they offered Delgado or Minor? This being a scenario where McCann maybe gets injured for season and Atl is desperate.

 

I don't know how high the ceiling is anymore for a Minor or Delgado. Minor did throw 170+IN last year though. It's just a scenario where Atl doesn't appear to have a true C after this season. Say Maldonado improves any bit on his numbers from last year and an offer came that included one of Minor or Delgado?

 

Do you take it?

[SRB]

Lucroy and Braun should be the only two untouchables in the system. I think Lucroy is one of the most underrated players in the league; his explosion last season might be unsustainable but he really looks like he could be an elite offensive catcher, and his defense is really impressive. Particularly in areas like pitch framing which advanced metrics are just starting to reach.

[nate82]

5 more years of both these Catchers. Right? Oh, we needn't forget there's a 1st rd pick Clint Coulter who's likely to push his way up the Organization ladder.

 

 

Coulter like Lawrie will not be a catcher when he gets to the majors. Coulter will probably be either a corner infielder or a corner outfielder and I wouldn't count on him being a catcher for very long.

 

Now for future catchers there is Cameron Garfield who looks to be either a really good offensive backup catcher or he could be a really good everyday offensive catcher. It really depends on how well he advances offensively.

 

Check this thread out over at the minor league portion of the forum as it has some really good insights on the Brewers minor league system.

[igor67]

Depth is a competitive advantage it is unlikely that Maldonado would bring back a guy who would actually be a step up for us somewhere else considering salary. In the meantime we might have the best catching position in baseball.

[Mr Southpaw]

I would love a third catcher that is a good left handed hitter. Moving Lucroy to RF or 1B over time to save on wear and tear and having viable pinch hitting options from the catcher position makes my heart go pitter patter.

[logan82]

Moving Lucroy to RF or 1B would destroy his value. I don't think he will hit as well as he did last year. He is a good hitter for a catcher but not really good for other positions let alone positions where you put guys for their bat. Not to mention I don't think he is anywhere near athletic enough to play RF.

 

Edit: Destroy is probably a little harsh. It would severely cut into his value. Alot of his value is the fact that he can play catcher. His bat isn't good enough that you need to find ways to get him on the field.

[brewcrewdue80]

Moving Lucroy to RF or 1B would destroy his value. I don't think he will hit as well as he did last year. He is a good hitter for a catcher but not really good for other positions let alone positions where you put guys for their bat. Not to mention I don't think he is anywhere near athletic enough to play RF.

 

Why would you not think he cant hit like he did last season? .300BA in Minors. Batting .320 in Majors just continues showing his ability to hit for avg. He leads the team in Line Drive Rate. He may not bat .320 or higher but he's also more than likely to bat higher than .265. Lucroy is a guy who doesn't whiff at 20+% of his PA so his BA should stay in a high range with his line drive rate.

I couldn't see him in the OF at all like you said. We find it funny to watch Choo go play CF. I'd think Lucroy would be an even funnier OFer to watch in defeciency.

As a 1b? As a batter perspective also agree in that he's only going to around an avg bat for that position. That takes away the value he gives for the team vs. the League. ++ at Catcher but then just avg. as everyday 1b. Nothing wrong with using Lucroy at 1b if the regular 1b for Brewers is providing you with below avg-avg production. Thinking when Hart's gone, Gamel struggling being Lefty he can be a type of reserve platoon at 1b with Gamel vs. Lefties.

 

In that regard Righty/Righty with Lucroy/Maldonado and the ability to throw one on 1b vs Leftys is another plus reason to keep them both.

You could technically go Hart RF,Lucroy 1b, Maldonado C being a super heavy Righty lineup vs Leftys and spelling Aoki/Gamel off. Fun huh?

[chickinbrickin]

Logan82 I think you greatly undervalue Lucroys bat. He is much more than just a good hitter for a catcher. He is one of the best young catchers in baseball and I think he will actually improve on his 2012 numbers. He may not be at or above .320, but I expect his power numbers to improve and for him to maintain a .300 avg.

 

I agree with you that a position move decreases his value.

 

I think Luc is as untradeable as Braun or Yo.

[Mass Haas]

Absolute gold, that's what this is -- gold, Jerry, gold!

 

Mr. Lucroy -

 

13:$0.75M, 14:$2M, 15:$3M, 16:$4M, 17:$5.25M club option ($0.25M buyout)

 

And no, that doesn't address the focus of this forum topic, but let Maldonado contine to build up value in his backup role this year. He's most valuable right now in being Wily Peralta's personal catcher. It was great theatrics to watch them in tandem last year. It's a dual investment, and in no way sours me (nor should sour others) like the Wolf - Kottaras arrangement.

 

Melvin has his catcher situation (and apparently shortstop, and of course, left field) cinched in for the likely remainder of his GM career. Definitely sleeping well...

[Madtown343]

I too am interested in the sub conversation of this discussion. That being where coulter eventually gets moved to... I am hoping he sticks at 3B and is close to major league ready by the time Rami is finished in Milwaukee.

[brewtank34]

Lucroy is quickly becoming one of the main Leaders of this ball club. He's young and talented. No way Melvin trades him away.

[RobDeer 45]

Ok, I'd really like to dig in to this more, but haven't done that yet. My gut reaction is to try and hold Muldonado for another year or two, then look to maybe trade him. Of course you never know what will happen in the next few years with either guy. I also think if someone comes knocking with a shipment of prospects for him, I'd listen for sure. I don't think we really should think about trading Luc, he's pure stud and cheap and I love that! Especially at a tough position to find offense. This thread kind of made me smile. Having two talented catchers is a nice problem to have!

[Austin Tatious]

I'm a huge fan of both of our catchers to be honest. I'd hang on to both for awhile, at least until we have another good catcher in the wings, which doesn't seem to be any time soon. Maldy's sample size offensively is rather small (especially compared with his minor league #s), but his defense will always be there. Of course, you always consider trade opportunities but you'd have to knock my socks off, e.g., if a team were desperate for a catcher.

[RobDeer 45]

Do you guys think Lucroy is closer to his BA & OPS of .320/.881 last year, or his career average of .279/.738?

[logan82]

Closer to the middle.

[brewtank34]

I have no doubt that Lucroy is a .300 hitter with upside of power and great defense.

[logan82]

If I had to guess I would say he is a .280/.340/.430/.770 hitter. He has gap power not HR power and doesn't have much speed.