Dempster

[ewitkows]

I agree with your premise but finding one of that caliber (3/4) who will take a 1 year or even a 2 year deal is going to be next to impossible. Of the pitchers left he's the guy I'd give a 3 year deal to. If Doug can talk him into a 2 with an option year , that would be a huge win for us.

[KCBrewerfan34]

If Dempster performs for 2 years I don't see why both sides would be opposed to doing an option, I honestly would like to see more offense and go with our young pitching but that's just me.

[JohnBriggs12]

He's a better pitcher than either of those 2. And we signed them when they were in their mid 30's. If he pitches to his norm ie 4.0 era 1.3 whip 200 inng ish we'll have no problem flipping him. You can never have too much pitching and to rely on 4 rookies/ 2nd year pitchers is a recipe for drafting in the top 10.

 

 

Where exactly is Oakland drafting this year?

 

Narveson is in the running for a rotation spot too. He'll make about 10% of what Dempster will and if he returns to his 10/11 form, he'll get pretty close to those numbers too.

[ewitkows]

They had 2 vets start 42 games. And if Brandon McCarthy didn't get beaned in the head he would have had a lot more.

 

I don't think Estrada is a starter and who knows what to expect from Narveson if anything. Rodgers has pitched more than 140 innings ever.

 

Way to many question marks about health in the present rotation to consider us a playoff team.

[DR28]

If Ryan would take a 2 yr deal w/an option for a 3 yr, I would sign him... It's hard to ignore how he pitched before being traded to Texas last year.

 

2.25 ERA in 104 IP with the Cubs.

[brewcrewdue80]

I've always thought of it as this, if its in the case of player asking for 3 while having solid offers for two, that player obviously has doubts at his ability for next 2years just as much as the owners do unwilling to sign him to 3. Kuroda just got 1yr 14mil at his age. Dempster and pitchers like him honestly shouldn't fear a difference at 2yrs vs 3. Like I said shows fear in his skills/injury potential to hold out for a 3rd yr.

[gregmag]

Ewitkows, how can you not think Estrada's a starter? He did the job for most of last year, and he did it exceptionally well. He doesn't go deep enough into games, and he gives up lots of HRs, but he has amazing command. He was midrotation quality last year. Advanced metrics bear out what the baseball card line shows. What more can he do to prove he deserves a rotation spot?

 

Fiers is also no rookie, and advanced metrics rank him a bit better than his ERA. Both of these guys have started games for roughly 2/3 of a full MLB season, and they've both performed very well. They plus Gallardo give us 3/5 of a very viable rotation.

[ewitkows]

For the facts you just stated. He doesn't go deep in to games and gives the HR ball. He's a slightly better version of Dave Bush. He's an awesome long relief/spot starter .

 

Fiers I'll wait and see on. Was his post august fall due to pitching more innings or did the league get a read on him. I'm hoping it's just that his arm got tired. Really we should be looking at sign dempster and Jackson if we want to complete and let fiers/peralta/rodgers/thornburg flight it out for the 4/5 spot

[SRB]

For the facts you just stated. He doesn't go deep in to games and gives the HR ball. He's a slightly better version of Dave Bush. He's an awesome long relief/spot starter.

 

Marco Estrada (2011-12): 5.7 IP/GS, 1.1 HR/9

Yovani Gallardo (career): 6.1 IP/GS, 1.0 HR/9

NL Average (2012): 5.9 IP/GS, 1.0 HR/9

 

Keep in mind that Estrada hasn't been fully stretched out at times in his role as SP/RP the last two seasons, so in a full-season SP role his IP/GS would likely be higher. Maybe he is a touch below average on those two stats, but his overall success as a starter more than makes up for that in my mind. If you have a guy who can give you quality ERA/FIP/xFIP as a starter, who cares if he is going to give you one less out every once in a while? (And what is the alternative? It's not like Rogers/Peralta/Narveson/Fiers are going to be going deep into games either).

[reillymcshane]

He's a better pitcher than either of those 2. And we signed them when they were in their mid 30's. If he pitches to his norm ie 4.0 era 1.3 whip 200 inng ish we'll have no problem flipping him. You can never have too much pitching and to rely on 4 rookies/ 2nd year pitchers is a recipe for drafting in the top 10.

 

Where exactly is Oakland drafting this year?

The 1998 Marlins started rookies or 2nd year guys in all but 9 games (including rookie Ryan Dempster getting 11 starts). They won 54 games.

[jerichoholicninja]

People just love to hate on Estrada in the rotation. I have no idea why, his numbers show he is an adequate starter.

[RockCoCougars]

I can't say 'No' enough to any proposal that would bring Dempster to the Brewers. Some reasons:

 

1. He's old.

2. He's holding out for a three year deal.

3. He will almost certainly demand a no trade clause.

4. His two best seasons have come in contract years. Maybe a coincidence but still disconcerting.

5. Over 2,000 innings on that arm, all that for a career .500 record, a career ERA of 4.33 and a WHIP over 1.4

and....

6. He's old.

 

Bottom line, he looks like an older version of Suppan 2006 to me, or at least much closer to that than to someone who can be counted on to be a solid #2 type. No upside whatsoever, in my view.

 

This post is a bit redundant for me, but I want to go on record that I would strongly be against this signing. Every day that passes brings a bit more uneasiness to me about this, and I won't relax until he signs somewhere.

[reillymcshane]

I can't say 'No' enough to any proposal that would bring Dempster to the Brewers. Some reasons:

 

1. He's old.

2. He's holding out for a three year deal.

3. He will almost certainly demand a no trade clause.

4. His two best seasons have come in contract years. Maybe a coincidence but still disconcerting.

5. Over 2,000 innings on that arm, all that for a career .500 record, a career ERA of 4.33 and a WHIP over 1.4

and....

6. He's old.

 

Bottom line, he looks like an older version of Suppan 2006 to me, or at least much closer to that than to someone who can be counted on to be a solid #2 type. No upside whatsoever, in my view.

 

This post is a bit redundant for me, but I want to go on record that I would strongly be against this signing. Every day that passes brings a bit more uneasiness to me about this, and I won't relax until he signs somewhere.

I think the Suppan comparisons are really unfair.

 

In the three years leading up to free agency, Suppan had accumulated a fWAR of 4.5. Dempster has a 9.2 WAR over the last three years.

 

I also don't think it's fair to cite career ERA as a reason to not sign (or sign) a guy who's been in the league for 15 years. Jim Thome has over 600 HRs - but no one is clamoring to sign him.

 

But the comments nail several crucial items. Dempster is old. Several years older than Suppan was when we signed him. He's 35 - old for a pitcher wanting a 3 year deal. He's got a lot of mileage on his arm. Don't forget that he had a strained shoulder last year. Fangraphs did a recent article on Dempster:

 

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/ryan-dempster-changes-remains-the-same/

 

They wonder if his heavy use of his slider is beginning to wear on him.

 

I'd like Dempster in the rotation - but not at three years. I don't think he's Suppan - who never was very good to begin with, then came to a team with a much worse defense and a tougher ball park. Two years for Dempster is risky enough.

[Roderick]

If Dempster performs for 2 years I don't see why both sides would be opposed to doing an option, I honestly would like to see more offense and go with our young pitching but that's just me.

How many options have the Brewers exercised? Doesn't seem like many. Some of those that I think we paid out on: Looper, Riske, Davis, Hoffman, Suppan, Zaun, Wolf. So I would rather pay Dempster 2yr/$25M than 2yr/$24M with a $3M option (as an example). Also if he is doing so well, they could always give him a qualifying offer as his per year contract is probably going to be pretty similar to the QO amount anyways.

 

Plus the object to me is to find a 1-2 year guy, not a 2-3 year guy. We should have arms coming through the minors and if they aren't, then the team isn't going anywhere anyways as they need those min. wage guys to balance the budget.

[yoshii8]

I think theres no way that Estrada isn't in the rotation next year. His stats last year were very impressive 138.1 IP, 3.64 ERA, 3.35 FIP, 1.142 WHIP, 143/29 K/BB. That's legit #2 starter numbers. He also seemed to get better and better as the season went on. That was one heck of an underrated pickup by the nugget miner.

[ewitkows]

Split G IP ER ERA PA AB R H 2B 3B HR SB CS BB SO SO/BB BA OBP SLG OPS

 

Innings 1-3 23 67.0 22 2.96 268 246 28 54 14 3 4 11 4 16 72 4.50 .220 .264 .350 .614

Innings 4-6 28 62.2 29 4.16 260 244 30 67 16 0 10 4 1 13 63 4.85 .275 .311 .463 .774

Innings 7-9 8 8.2 5 5.19 34 33 5 8 0 0 4 0 0 0 8 .242 .242 .606 .848

 

not really lined up correctly but you can see he's awesome for 3 innings and then becomes ave in 4-6 and when he does get past 6 innings hes bad.

[PrinceEatMeat]

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/boston-red-sox-free-agent-right-handed-pitcher-ryan-dempster-hot-stove-121212

 

Sounds like the Red Sox are serious about Dempster. Deal could get done.

[logan82]

Split G IP ER ERA PA AB R H 2B 3B HR SB CS BB SO SO/BB BA OBP SLG OPS

 

Innings 1-3 23 67.0 22 2.96 268 246 28 54 14 3 4 11 4 16 72 4.50 .220 .264 .350 .614

Innings 4-6 28 62.2 29 4.16 260 244 30 67 16 0 10 4 1 13 63 4.85 .275 .311 .463 .774

Innings 7-9 8 8.2 5 5.19 34 33 5 8 0 0 4 0 0 0 8 .242 .242 .606 .848

 

not really lined up correctly but you can see he's awesome for 3 innings and then becomes ave in 4-6 and when he does get past 6 innings hes bad.

So pretty much like most starters.

[nate82]

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/boston-red-sox-free-agent-right-handed-pitcher-ryan-dempster-hot-stove-121212

 

Sounds like the Red Sox are serious about Dempster. Deal could get done.

 

Thank You Boston!

[reillymcshane]

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/boston-red-sox-free-agent-right-handed-pitcher-ryan-dempster-hot-stove-121212

 

Sounds like the Red Sox are serious about Dempster. Deal could get done.

 

Thank You Boston!

Don't count your chickens yet. I have a feeling Dempster wants to play in Milwaukee (close to home, spring training in AZ, National League). I also think Melvin wants him. Boston serves as leverage for Dempster. Someone will blink - I think Melvin will. I think he'll give him the three year deal. Or maybe they'll manage a fairly large payout on a third year option.

 

All just guesses on my part.

[Warning Track Power]

Let's say the contracts are the same, who do you take: Marcum or Dempster?

[Spidey]

I'd want Marcum if he is healthy. For sure.

[torts]

I'd want Marcum if he is healthy. For sure.

[Madtown343]

I agree we should wait... If marcum continues to slide by revisit that at 1 year rather than multi year on dempster... I like Edwin a little more actually

[TURBO]

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/boston-red-sox-free-agent-right-handed-pitcher-ryan-dempster-hot-stove-121212

 

Sounds like the Red Sox are serious about Dempster. Deal could get done.

 

 

That would be a great x-mas present.

 

NO DEMPSTER!