Brewers Have Considered Trading Hart

[torts]

Brewers Have Considered Trading Hart

By Luke Adams [December 5 at 1:36pm CST]

The Brewers have considered the idea of trading Corey Hart, according to Danny Knobler of CBSSports.com (via Twitter). Such a deal would free up money for pitching, since Milwaukee can't afford to go big on a pitcher right now without another move.

 

As we've heard throughout the Winter Meetings, the Brewers are reluctant to commit to more than a two-year deal for a veteran starter, which has them at an impasse in talks with Ryan Dempster. One report yesterday suggested that, while Milwaukee continues to search for a starter and a reliever, the team doesn't have the financial flexibility to pursue an Anibal Sanchez or Kyle Lohse type. Perhaps that could change if the Brewers decide to move Hart, but guys like Sanchez and Lohse would still require a lengthy commitment.

 

Brewers GM Doug Melvin had told Tom Haudricourt of the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel yesterday that he was undecided on whether the team would pursue a contract extension for Hart, whose deal is set to expire next winter.

 

 

Read more at http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/#2QebAPl6ZKxDVAe9.99

[narwhalattack]

Why not just get a decent pitcher by trading Hart rather than just trading Hart as a salary dump to afford a decent pitcher on the FA market?

[yoyomayoma]

Either way, it's a good move. Get an asset for expiring contract. Put Gamel back at 1B and the rest of the lineup stays intact.

[Hate those Rodents]

I can't believe we can't afford one of these second tier free agent starters as is. Then if you have no money for relievers, it should be easy to do minor trades for bullpen help.

[JohnBriggs12]

Why not just get a decent pitcher by trading Hart rather than just trading Hart as a salary dump to afford a decent pitcher on the FA market?

 

Exactly. The market for FA pitchers deemed to be in demand is ridiculous. Melvin needs to be disciplined and just stay away from those guys.

 

If somebody makes an attractive offer for Hart that includes a guy that can help them win in 2013 by shoring up a need, then fine. But dealing him to dump salary makes zero sense to me.

[torts]

2:12pm: The Brewers aren't actively looking to trade Hart and would have to be overwhelmed to make a deal, tweets David O'Brien of the Atlanta Journal Constitution.

Read more at http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/#dburEBJCm11PUSIG.99

[Hate those Rodents]

There was supposedly some legs to an Upton for Olt and Holland deal. I wonder if we added a little something to Hart, if Texas would give us both. We then could trade Ramirez and get something really good while being set with what I think will be a great young cheap infield (Gamel I have faith in at first).

[monty57]

We are continually bombarded with the belief that resources are unlimited and all wants can be fulfilled by simply mortgaging the future.

 

Reality is setting in. While wants are unlimited, resources are not. Should we revisit the affordability of the Ramirez contract now, as I have been continually told that how it's structured doesn't matter. The fact that Melvin back-loaded it in an effort to win in 2012 when we couldn't afford to pay him more than $6MM is the reason that the Brewers now have a huge liability in 2014 which will make them less able to make other moves they may wish to make. That (not the belief that Ramirez isn't good) is the reason so many here were on board with trading him when the opportunity seemed to arise this past season.

 

The past is the past, and what's done is done. It seems we're seeing a change in Melvin's philosophy, which often happens when budget crunches hit. It's not like no one could see this budget crunch coming, as I and others on this sight (without all the info Melvin has) have warned of it's coming for a couple of seasons. Hopefully this is a revelation and we act in a fiscally responsible manner going forward. We have some promising young arms coming up, and with some luck we should have the tools to remain playoff relevant into the future. To me, contemplating trading Hart for prospects makes a lot more financial sense at this time than the proposals floating around of trading our prospects for one or two years of a vet.

 

The Greinke-for-Segura+ deal saved the Brewers a heck of a lot of future headaches. Getting the right deal for Hart or Ramirez could solve some more. It'll be interesting to see what happens.

[brewcrewdue80]

This has been ongoing for seasons now. If you read the Mlbtraderumors site and the comments come in from fans of Orioles, Yankees, Mariners as wanting him. The 1b aspect Hart gained last season definitely increased his value. It's something I would pursue if a nice deal was offered not just for 1year but added future.

 

As for the Rangers and trading Olt. I can't see Rangers wanting Hart. They are losing Hamilton or signing him. If losing him then they are looking for an OF with young talent as Upton has. Hart doesn't have the OF,young talent on his side anymore. We all know he's not the greatest defensive OFer. But he showed plus Defense at 1b which is why I see the O's,Yankees wanting him as they can use him at both OF/1b.

 

Now, trading Hart is partly to remove the money aspect of it. Yet there's Swisher out there on FA who I'd target if I were a team with any thoughts of trading for Hart. I can't imagine the price being any different and Swisher doesn't cost you any good prospects. So, I think when it comes to the money a team taking Hart's salary on can also take on the FA market who's available. Just don't know how a team trading for Hart wins in the trade unless they absolutely think he's the 1piece missing to win the WS this year. Which is what Angels pushed for with Grienke.

 

I do think that the Brewers are better off trading away the final year for any players with multi-years of control/prospects being the market they are in. The Grienke Deal sure saved the team a huge hole at SS. Of course it made a hole at the rotation. Losing Hart wouldn't necessarily make a hole at 1b but it sure leaves a question mark on the production for 1b. I've wondered what the Brewers would get in return for Hart. Sure would give an idea to what value is in Gomez as I would rank both about equal. Could help decide what offer you make on resigning Gomez or what you ask for him in a trade.

[DoubleSwitch]

The fact that Melvin back-loaded it in an effort to win in 2012 when we couldn't afford to pay him more than $6MM is the reason that the Brewers now have a huge liability in 2014 which will make them less able to make other moves they may wish to make. .

 

As long as we're talking about 36 Million guaranteed no matter what, a back loaded deal is good for the team. A dollar today is worth more than a dollar tomorrow.

[DHonks]

We need to be keeping Hart. He'll accept a below-market avg contract extension, is a good ambassador for the town, and is a darn good 1b. I'd extend him at 3 years $30 million, give or take a few million. He'd do a lot more good for us than Dempster at 3 years $40 million.

[RockCoCougars]

There is not a free agent pitcher on the market outside of ZG that I would prefer over Hart. I'd prefer just going with the young guys in the rotation. A few vets will slip through the cracks and be available on one year deals. Let one of those guys fill the role of 'aging innings eater' for 5-10% of the sunk cost.

[Kelbysdaddy]

If they are trading hart- get our old pal jack z on the phone. Seems like Corey might be able to fill some holes for Seattle. They have some impressive prospects and are willing to trade them.

 

Also, I will not be happy if they trade hart to free up money for lohse.

[Eye Black]

Why not just get a decent pitcher by trading Hart rather than just trading Hart as a salary dump to afford a decent pitcher on the FA market?

 

Exactly. The market for FA pitchers deemed to be in demand is ridiculous. Melvin needs to be disciplined and just stay away from those guys.

 

If somebody makes an attractive offer for Hart that includes a guy that can help them win in 2013 by shoring up a need, then fine. But dealing him to dump salary makes zero sense to me.

 

Would you trade one year of Corey Hart (at $10 mil) for two years of Justin Masterson?

[Kelbysdaddy]

Why not just get a decent pitcher by trading Hart rather than just trading Hart as a salary dump to afford a decent pitcher on the FA market?

 

Exactly. The market for FA pitchers deemed to be in demand is ridiculous. Melvin needs to be disciplined and just stay away from those guys.

 

If somebody makes an attractive offer for Hart that includes a guy that can help them win in 2013 by shoring up a need, then fine. But dealing him to dump salary makes zero sense to me.

 

Would you trade one year of Corey Hart (at $10 mil) for two years of Justin Masterson?

That's a tough one. Those 2 years of masterson will probably cost around 11mil or so. Its a FAR better option then signing dempster for 2/30 or 3/38. Yeah, I'd probably do it. We need experienced ml pitching and the free agents are over priced and not very good.

[torts]

Thursday, 7:41am: One obstacle in trading Hart is the limited no-trade clause his contract contains, tweets Jon Heyman of CBS Sports. Hart prefers his Spring Training to take place in Arizona, so it's safe to assume he can block trades to all teams whose Spring facilities are in Florida.

Read more at http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/#gb8Alq18YtcHD1A3.99

[monty57]

The fact that Melvin back-loaded it in an effort to win in 2012 when we couldn't afford to pay him more than $6MM is the reason that the Brewers now have a huge liability in 2014 which will make them less able to make other moves they may wish to make. .

 

As long as we're talking about 36 Million guaranteed no matter what, a back loaded deal is good for the team. A dollar today is worth more than a dollar tomorrow.

 

If you are fiscally responsible, then yes. How many MLB GM's are long-term fiscally responsible? If you ink the deal and then realize that you do not have the $20MM of payroll room in two years, then creating a massive future liability can be very harmful to the team. Signing that deal when the payroll drops 20% or so (as it appears will occur from 2012 to 2013 for the Brewers) can be especially harmful. Signing an appreciating pay schedule to a depreciating asset can also be harmful. The present value of a dollar benefit can often be overvalued, while the need to have dollars to pay future bills is often overlooked.

 

We had a cheap year of Ramirez where we "underpaid" him while our payroll was maxed out, so all the stat sites that try to measure the cost of a win say it was great. Meanwhile, we now have a $30MM liability for two more years of Ramirez, when the total payroll outflow for those two seasons will likely be around $160-180MM. Adding that to the already existing liabilities of the Braun, Yo, Weeks and Hart contracts ties up most of our payroll over the next two seasons, leading us to situations like the one being discussed in this thread... what's better, trading one of the offensive guys we like or going into the season with holes in our pitching? We don't have the financial flexibility to fix our holes with the guaranteed contract liabilities we have on the books.

 

Comparing the TV deal the Brewers got with the deals other teams signed makes it apparent that financial disparity in MLB is getting larger in the future. If Melvin cares about future Brewer teams, he needs to continue looking for deals where we trade aging vets with limited term contracts (no matter how loved the player may be) for younger, cheaper talent with years of team control. He needs to continue to lock up "core" talent when the opportunity presents itself, but not be afraid to move on when new, younger, cheaper guys emerge. I like the Greinke for Segura trade. It was huge for the future of the Brewers. I like that Melvin has said he's not signing a veteran FA SP for 3+ years. I like that Melvin is at least looking into trading players (like Hart) who are entering into their final year of their contract. If the offer's not there, then of course don't make a deal, but if Melvin can parlay one year of Hart into six years or so of a talented young player, then make the deal.

[paul253]

The Brewers need to decide soon if they plan on offering Hart an extension. The second the season starts his trade value drops dramatically due to the fact that the team who trades for him can't get draft pick compensation for him if he doesn't re-sign. I'm of the belief that they should trade him for pitching because the organization cannot afford to keep giving players in their 30's multiyear deals. One of our top prospects is a first baseman and they are plenty of other options should he not work out.

[Roderick]

The fact that Melvin back-loaded it in an effort to win in 2012 when we couldn't afford to pay him more than $6MM is the reason that the Brewers now have a huge liability in 2014 which will make them less able to make other moves they may wish to make. .

 

As long as we're talking about 36 Million guaranteed no matter what, a back loaded deal is good for the team. A dollar today is worth more than a dollar tomorrow.

 

Especially when you consider the rate of inflation in baseball salaries. Of course the player's agent knows this also. So if it was scheduled normal it may have been a total of $35M something like this 8.5, 11.5, 15.

[Baldkin]

Not to mention that every GM knew the new MLB-wide television deals would be kicking in in 2014 and the money incoming from those would nearly triple for every franchise, upping it to 50 million per team.

[TURBO]

Every time I see Lohse pop up in a thread, I throw up a little...

 

I can not physically tell you enough how much I do not want him in Milwaukee.

[monty57]

Not to mention that every GM knew the new MLB-wide television deals would be kicking in in 2014 and the money incoming from those would nearly triple for every franchise, upping it to 50 million per team.

 

Then why are the Brewers cutting payroll by roughly 20% year-over-year, with Melvin unwilling to sign a deal for over 2-years? The new TV money is why the salaries are escalating, and probably why the Brewers have been able to increase payroll over the past few seasons. Teams are spending their expected future revenues before they get it. The Brewers apparently spent theirs on the back-end loaded Ramirez deal, which coincidentally balloons in 2014.

 

Whether it's statistically deemed "worth it" or not, the contract is constraining Melvin's ability at the present time. It was signed to help push us over the edge in 2012 while we had Greinke and Marcum, and I'm sure when Melvin signed it he knew it would hamstring him going forward. We owe the money to Ramirez (and Braun, Weeks, Gallardo, etc), so we can't spend it elsewhere. When you lock yourself into long-term guaranteed commitments, and the budget shrinks, your hands become tied. In simplified form, that's why so many people lost their houses over the past few years. At least Melvin has the option of trading away a good player to free up some cash to upgrade elsewhere, or he has the option of putting out a super offense with a suspect pitching staff which could at least be fun to watch for the high scoring. Until the Ramirez contract is gone, or we trade Weeks, Braun or Yo, I don't expect any more big name signings in Milwaukee. Rather, I expect that we'll have decent teams over the next two years (with a lot of the success riding on how quickly the young arms develop), looking at building a new core for 2015 and beyond.

[Hate those Rodents]

Monty, few teams have made moves yet. Its been a slow off season for everybody. Doug does lots of gm-speak too. Don't believe anything on the payroll until the'pudding proves it.

[PrinceFielderx1]

This trading Hart talk is ridiculous and doesn't make any sense. Didn't Hart say he's looking for a 3 year deal? If I was Doug Melvin I would give it to him and not hesitate one bit. Keep the Brewers awesome offense in tact and have the quality SP prospects develop and we will go very far as a MLB franchise. The Brewers could always pull off a trade for a SP and have the other team pick up salary for it to be affordable. I wouldn't expect Doug Melvin to be involved in FA at all, unless it's for a reliever, and everything is pointing in this direction.

 

Also I was reading one of Tom H articles the other day about the payroll going down to about 80 million, and within that article I noticed that they could make a move at mid-season and increase the payroll. They just want flexibility from now till then to do so.

 

“It’s coming down,” acknowledged Melvin. “We’ll probably look at (an opening payroll) of $80 million or thereabouts. We want to keep flexibility in case players become available.

 

http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/181757271.html

[DHonks]

I'd like us to build a huge offense and hope our pitching keeps up. It's the Indians-Rockies theory from the 90s. Hitters can be safely signed to 3-6 year deals. Pitchers...not so much. I'm also surprised to hear rumors of Dempster given his arm surgeries and how the Brewers had a comment earlier in the offseason that several years after Tommy John surgery, other parts of the body tend to break down