2012-2013 College Basketball thread

[LouisEly]

How did Hunt not know that Thomas was only on a one year scholarship? I knew that when he enrolled.

 

Is it me or does Michael Carter Williams look like a cross between Tiger Woods and Jeff Dunham's character Peanut?

[fondybrewfan]

That was a rather disappointing finish to the Wichita State Louisville game mainly because I was cheering for Wichita. Both the souble foul and jump ball calls were rather questionable. Baker nearly got his head taken off but somehow managed to foul the guy and the Louisville guy maybe had his hand on the ball for like .3 seconds and got the jump ball. Let the final 8 seconds play itself out; don't just end the game on a quick whistle.

[fondybrewfan]

I know nothing about the circumstances behind Thomas. All that I saw was the article by Hunt that his scholly was taken away because they needed it for someone else. Obviously my feelings are a little different now that some new details were pointed out

[jjfanec]

some bad comments in this thread:

 

Fondy, as they've said Thomas was lucky that he was given some scholarship money given that he was walking on.

jjfanec, I don't get the shady transfers under Buzz comment. Marquette fans learned under Crean that when you recruit lots of talent, it tends to transfer. Crean lost Blankston, Bradley, Bell, Berkowitz, Amoroso, Mbakwe, and countless others. Buzz has lost some, but it's no different.

 

As for what others have said, isn't Marquette over-committed? They have the Cadougan, Thomas, and Lockett scholarships. They may have the Otule scholarship. But they need 5, and they's only 3/4. Were they under-committed this year?

 

I dont want to get into a Marquette bashing thread on a Brewer's board since I assume many are Marquette fans. There guys who left Marquette under Buzz under less than ideal circumstances. They even said stuff to reporters about it. It is what it is. I dont like oversigning and Buzz has done that. He has had guys who have signed letters of intent find out there isnt a spot for them. I dont want to get into a big thing on it though. However, these past incidents are why something like Thomas gets looked at as a guy getting run off even though this time it was really sloppy journalism

 

Marquette is still oversigned for next year. It sounds like Otule is coming back so they will have to find one scholarship. Someone will have to be transferring.

[Patrick425]

Heard "This Is It" by Kenny Loggins on the radio the other day and it reminded me of the opening theme song to the NCAA tourney back in the early 80's.

 

Kind of "cheesy" by today's standards, but I loved it as a kid (long video, but the opening is what I'm talking about):

 

[DHonks]

jjfanec, I think I have some idea what you mean now. I've heard one recruit have negative things to say about time at Marquette, and that was Jerone Maymon. Actually, it was his dad who was bitter that his son wasn't playing 40 minutes per game and had to play defense...I never saw anything from the player.

 

I do feel bad about what happened to Newbill, especially since he looks like he could contribute on this team. That seemed rather bush league. Although I guess if I were a coach I'd want to be pretty selective in who I hand money to. I'm not sure of Marquette's tuition these days, but I'll bet a 4-year scholarship is worth well over $150,000.

[jjfanec]

jjfanec, I think I have some idea what you mean now. I've heard one recruit have negative things to say about time at Marquette, and that was Jerone Maymon. Actually, it was his dad who was bitter that his son wasn't playing 40 minutes per game and had to play defense...I never saw anything from the player.

 

I do feel bad about what happened to Newbill, especially since he looks like he could contribute on this team. That seemed rather bush league. Although I guess if I were a coach I'd want to be pretty selective in who I hand money to. I'm not sure of Marquette's tuition these days, but I'll bet a 4-year scholarship is worth well over $150,000.

 

Yeah i was think more on the Newbill situation (and Roseboro and Durley). A couple of those guys "decided" Marquette wasnt a good fit for them right before Marquette picked up a transfer or something but that is fairly common-place in Division 1 basketball but I am just not a fan. If you offer a kid and he accepts you made your decision. Coaches can "cut" kids with no punishment for the program but the kid has to sit out a year

 

I wouldnt take anything the Maymon's say seriously. That package deal is a headache waiting to happen

[RobDeer 45]

What a great national championship last night! Great entertainment!

[LouisEly]

I wouldn't get too worked up over the loss of Newbill. He shot 40.5% from the floor, 26.7% from 3-point, 68.4% from FT, and most alarmingly, averaged 3.9 turnovers per game. He got a lot of points because he took a lot of shots. Don't think that would have helped Marquette much if at all.

 

It works both ways. Kids change their minds about schools just like schools change their minds about kids. Kids decommit and transfer from schools all the time. If you are counting on a kid because he gave you his word, and then at the last minute the kid changes his mind what does the school do then? Blue decommitted from UW. Brust decommitted from Iowa. Uthoff decided to transfer without talking to Bo first, and that left UW shorthanded this year. Marquette had two scholarships open this year because kids left the program. With football you have a lot more scholarships so it isn't as big of a deal, but with only a few basketball scholarships open every year each one counts. Newbill ended up at Penn State, much closer to his hometown of Philadelphia, and got to start this year instead of sitting on the bench so in the end it probably worked out better for him.

 

One last note about Jake Thomas, I could be wrong but I believe one of Zak Showalter or Zach Bohannon had the same deal with UW this year - got a one-year scholarship because UW had scholarships open (because Uthoff changed his mind about UW), but will not have a scholarship next year.

[jjfanec]

 

It works both ways. Kids change their minds about schools just like schools change their minds about kids. Kids decommit and transfer from schools all the time. If you are counting on a kid because he gave you his word, and then at the last minute the kid changes his mind what does the school do then? Blue decommitted from UW. Brust decommitted from Iowa. Uthoff decided to transfer without talking to Bo first, and that left UW shorthanded this year. Marquette had two scholarships open this year because kids left the program. With football you have a lot more scholarships so it isn't as big of a deal, but with only a few basketball scholarships open every year each one counts. Newbill ended up at Penn State, much closer to his hometown of Philadelphia, and got to start this year instead of sitting on the bench so in the end it probably worked out better for him.

 

There is a "punishment" in place for a transfer. They have to sit out a year. If a school cuts a kid there is no punishment for the school. Blue never signed a LOI with Madison and Brust got out of his because there was a coaching change. Once an athlete signs a letter of intent he is with that school or else he loses a year of eligibility and the school now has a chance to replace that kid. If a school runs of a recruit he loses a year of eligibility and now has to put himself back on the market after months or years of teams actively recruiting him. The system heavily favors the school over the athlete.

 

I agree each scholarship counts but a school should not be able to run guys they recruited and offered and signed just because they now like someone more. You committed to the kid. Buzz has 16 non juco kids sign letters of intent to play at Marquette and only 7 are still with the team. Something about that just doesnt seem right to me but I dont know all the reasons.

[LouisEly]

You're right, it's the system. The NCAA does not allow schools to give out multi-year scholarships - every scholarship is for one year only and renewable on an annual basis. But many schools oversign players, including national champion Louisville:

 

http://collegebasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/09/20/pitino-lands-4th-2013-recruit-why-isnt-there-more-oversigning-outrage/

 

According to this article, 22% of NCAA basketball players each year leave their program for reasons other than graduation or turning pro:

 

http://www.crimsonquarry.com/2012/5/17/3027143/indiana-hoosiers-and-the-oversign-tom-crean-plays-the-numbers-game

 

Oversigning goes on all over in the NCAA, but the 22% non-graduation/pro attrition rate usually prevents it from becoming an issue. If you look at what happened to Buzz, he had injuries (Otule, McMorrow), players transfer due to family issues (Mbakwe), playing time (Maymon, and apparently as of yesterday Ferguson), injuries/playing time/homesick (Williams), and had players quit (Roseboro, Smith, Taylor). He has been playing with a short roster most of his first few seasons (10 most of last year, 11 the year before, 9 the year before that, 10 the year before that) and likely wants to prevent that from happening again. The risk is having one too few scholarships. Happens other places, we just don't hear about it.

 

Ferguson's transfer means that Otule can come back without any issues with scholarships for next year.

[homer]

To me the biggest problem with oversigning is when you tell a kid who hasn't even made it on campus that you're taking his scholie away.

[jjfanec]

To me the biggest problem with oversigning is when you tell a kid who hasn't even made it on campus that you're taking his scholie away.

 

Exactly. Just because oversigning is common doesnt mean it is right. Also, a lot of time people defend this stuff and transfers because athletes leaving dont come out and say they got cut so they act like it was the athlete's decision to leave. However, what athlete with any pride would say his former coach said he wasnt good enough. Part of the reason oversigning isnt seen as a problem is because the athletes who get run off dont raise a fuss about it.

[FVBrewerFan]

I honestly don't know what the fuss is about. Scholarships are given a year at a time, nobody has a birthright to be guaranteed a 4 year scholarship. If a player isn't as good as someone coming into the program, that's life. Just as I don't shed any tears when a player decides to transfer (like Maymon.)

 

On a side note, I think Ferguson should have been getting Mayo's minutes, and he wouldn't have transferred. I can't blame the kid, with the guards coming in playing time won't increase for him, that's for sure.

[homer]

I honestly don't know what the fuss is about. Scholarships are given a year at a time, nobody has a birthright to be guaranteed a 4 year scholarship. If a player isn't as good as someone coming into the program, that's life. Just as I don't shed any tears when a player decides to transfer (like Maymon.)

.

 

If I was an MU fan, I would have jumped for joy when Maymon and his dad left town.

[jjfanec]

I honestly don't know what the fuss is about. Scholarships are given a year at a time, nobody has a birthright to be guaranteed a 4 year scholarship. If a player isn't as good as someone coming into the program, that's life. Just as I don't shed any tears when a player decides to transfer (like Maymon.)

 

On a side note, I think Ferguson should have been getting Mayo's minutes, and he wouldn't have transferred. I can't blame the kid, with the guards coming in playing time won't increase for him, that's for sure.

 

No coach tells a kid when he is recruiting him that the kid has a scholarship for one year. When recruited the coach tells the kid he has the scholarship for at least 4 years. If all coaches had the same view of scholarships as you do there would be a lot more kids getting cut every year but that doesnt happen.

[FVBrewerFan]

I honestly don't know what the fuss is about. Scholarships are given a year at a time, nobody has a birthright to be guaranteed a 4 year scholarship. If a player isn't as good as someone coming into the program, that's life. Just as I don't shed any tears when a player decides to transfer (like Maymon.)

 

On a side note, I think Ferguson should have been getting Mayo's minutes, and he wouldn't have transferred. I can't blame the kid, with the guards coming in playing time won't increase for him, that's for sure.

 

No coach tells a kid when he is recruiting him that the kid has a scholarship for one year. When recruited the coach tells the kid he has the scholarship for at least 4 years. If all coaches had the same view of scholarships as you do there would be a lot more kids getting cut every year but that doesnt happen.

 

I don't think you know what Buzz Williams tells various payers he recruits, so to suggest he over-promises is unfair speculation on your part. Jake Thomas, for example, knew he was coming to a guard laden team and shouldn't be surprised when the team has no use for strictly a shooter who couldn't shoot. In fact, maybe Buzz has players transfer because he is brutally honest about their future instead of making promises he can't keep.

[jjfanec]

I honestly don't know what the fuss is about. Scholarships are given a year at a time, nobody has a birthright to be guaranteed a 4 year scholarship. If a player isn't as good as someone coming into the program, that's life. Just as I don't shed any tears when a player decides to transfer (like Maymon.)

 

On a side note, I think Ferguson should have been getting Mayo's minutes, and he wouldn't have transferred. I can't blame the kid, with the guards coming in playing time won't increase for him, that's for sure.

 

No coach tells a kid when he is recruiting him that the kid has a scholarship for one year. When recruited the coach tells the kid he has the scholarship for at least 4 years. If all coaches had the same view of scholarships as you do there would be a lot more kids getting cut every year but that doesnt happen.

 

I don't think you know what Buzz Williams tells various payers he recruits, so to suggest he over-promises is unfair speculation on your part. Jake Thomas, for example, knew he was coming to a guard laden team and shouldn't be surprised when the team has no use for strictly a shooter who couldn't shoot. In fact, maybe Buzz has players transfer because he is brutally honest about their future instead of making promises he can't keep.

 

I think Thomas is a completely different situation. I fully believe he was told he had a one year scholarship. In fact it was pretty much widely reported at the time. It is the same thing with Showalter for the Badgers this year. A team is a scholarship down for a given year so they give it to a walk on. There is nothing wrong with that. Thomas left because he knew he didnt have a scholarship after this year and because he didnt really play much. It was a good move for both sides. His situation is different than a kid signing a LOI out of high school. I can all but guarantee Buzz, or any coach for that matter, has never told a senior in high school he would only have a year to year scholarship. That kid would move on to the next major scholarship he has in a heart beat.

[LouisEly]

"In fact, maybe Buzz has players transfer because he is brutally honest about their future instead of making promises he can't keep."

 

This. Despite all of the players who have left, the only one who had anything bad to say was Maymon (or his parents). If Buzz was cutting players without warning you would have heard much more complaining from these kids after they left. He very likely tells them they aren't going to get playing time, and if they want to get playing time their best opportunity will be at another school.

 

If Otule and Mayo come back they will have four seniors and four juniors, plus Taylor and the big freshman class. They will be able to bring in four more recruits the following year too; hopefully they will get one of Okonoboh/O'Mara, one of Looney/White, one of Terrell/Hill, and a juco F/C so they have a little more experience in the post since they will lose Otule, Gardner, and Wilson. Taylor and McKay will be the only players on the team in two years 6'7" or taller and not true freshmen.

[homer]

"Despite all of the players who have left, the only one who had anything bad to say was Maymon (or his parents)."

 

How often do players say anything about their coach? Players never said a word about Mike Rice at Rutgers. They still want a scholarship somewhere and if they start talking trash that lessens their odds. They probably think they'll be blacklisted.

[Funketown]

Looks like IU's oversigning is driving Remy Abell out the door:

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/9166801/remy-abell-indiana-hoosiers-transfer

[homer]

Looks like IU's oversigning is driving Remy Abell out the door:

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/9166801/remy-abell-indiana-hoosiers-transfer

 

 

"Abell's departure means Crean has room on the roster to keep all six of his incoming freshmen."

 

Announced on a Friday afternoon no less!

[homer]

For some reason, Vander Blue is taking is talents to the NBA.

[brwrsfan]

From CBS...

 

In one of the more baffling, head-scratching decisions of the offseason, Marquette junior guard Vander Blue has opted to leave early for the NBA.

 

Can't say I disagree, not sure who is giving him advice, but this is a bad move. He desperately needs to improve his jumpshot and coming back for a senior season would have absolutely been the right move. Honestly...is he even a first round pick? I wouldn't think so. And if you get picked in round 2, you get a non-guaranteed contract. This move makes no sense.

 

Hurts MU at lot next year too, as he was likely a first team all conference pick next year...big loss.

[fondybrewfan]

This is going to end up being a horrible decision. There is virtually no chance he is a 1st round pick and there are no gauranteed contracts in the 2nd round. Now if he doesn't care if he plays in Europe then his decision is fine; but if he thinks he is good enough for the NBA right now I guess I have to disagree with that. He made tremendous strides this year but he is neither a great shooter or a great penetrator. He probably feels that since this is a horrible draft class that this year might be his best chance of getting drafted.