Blue Jays close to acquiring Josh Johnson, Jose Reyes in "epic trade"

[JohnBriggs12]

Did I miss something? How many games did the Marlins win with those guys? 69? Buehrle and Johnson were a combined 21-27. Buehrle's contract was backloaded and he is scheduled to make $37 million when he's 35 and 36. Reyes had a solid year but his OPS was down nearly 100 points from the year before. His contract is backloaded too, with him due $66 milliion over the final 3 years when he'll be 32-34.

 

After a career year in 2011, Bonafacio reverted to just another guy in 2012.

 

Escobar's 2011 was very similar to Reyes' 2012 and he's a fine defensive SS. Hechavarria looks like a fine middle infield prospect who's major league ready. Alvarez at 22 started 31 games for Jays and wasn't all that bad either.

 

Bottom line, the Marlins weren't going to win with those guys and the Reyes and Buehrle contracts were really bad in the out years. In the long run, they did a smart thing. The casual fans (aren't those the only type they have) won't like it, but the reality is it was a good move.

 

As for the Jays, I doubt this gets them over the top. But big burdensome contracts haven't bothered them in the past.

[Invader3K]

Baseball-wise, I actually don't think this trade is horrible from the Marlins standpoint. It's just such a slap in the face to the Miami taxpayers to shed that much payroll after they bankrolled that new stadium.

 

Selig needs to force Loria to sell the team and get an ownership group with some integrity in there.

[Ennder]

Buehrle's contract is just awful. Bonafacio's biggest plus is his versatility but he hasn't shown he can stay healthy a full season. Johnson did not look healthy last year though he muscled through it to post decent numbers in a big pitchers park. Reyes being moved is a big deal for sure but the Jays aren't getting near the value in players that I think people assume they are just from name recognition.

[Patrick425]

The county forked out something like $450 million, which is actually $2.4 billion when interest is included.

 

Loria campaigned for the money while insisting that the Marlins were losing money at the old stadium. Later when the financial documents leaked, it turned out that he had been turning a profit all along. As a result, he is currently under investigation by the SEC.

 

When the Marlins' real financial situation became apparent, there was a movement to stop construction of the ballpark immediately. However, the contract was written to essentially give Loria the stadium as a gift. The county has essentially no control over the stadium, or even the parking garages which were funded 100% by the taxpayers. The county commissioners fell for it hook, line, and sinker. They didn't even see the Marlins' financial documents before approving the deal. It was just a shady deal all along.

 

The Marlins' finances are fine. They have been turning a profit year after year. They did not need to dump 90% of their payroll.

 

There are a number of problems with the Florida is a bad baseball state argument, I've pointed them out several times before but it is obvious that I'm not going to change anyone's mind even though I live in Miami and have no connection to the Marlins nor any reason to defend them. If there were no Marlins fans, I would tell you that, but the reality is completely different. Miami is not Tampa Bay, there is almost nothing in common between the two cities. You can not repeatedly betray the trust of your fans and expect them to come back again and again. Everyone saluted Dodgers fans for staying away from the McCourts but somehow Marlins fans are bad for not trusting Loria. There are a lot of people in Miami saying "I told you so" today who refused to buy tickets last year. Are they bad fans, or are they the smart ones?

 

Wow, I didn't know any of this. Although, it seems like the county was a bit complicit in this whole thing (they just blindly approved the deal?!?). Still, I'm curious as to what others think would have been the best course of action to save the sinking franchise that is the Miami Marlins. Building a new stadium and adding a bunch of high priced "stars" to the roster ended up netting a 2.2 million attendance. So, that obviously was not the answer.

[JohnBriggs12]

Baseball-wise, I actually don't think this trade is horrible from the Marlins standpoint. It's just such a slap in the face to the Miami taxpayers to shed that much payroll after they bankrolled that new stadium.

 

Selig needs to force Loria to sell the team and get an ownership group with some integrity in there.

 

I don't get how it's a "slap in the face" to Marlin fans. Without this deal, they become the Cubs of 2011-2012 in a couple years, with burdensome contracts preventing them from doing anything. Loria spent to put a winner on the field but it didn't work out, and he cut his losses. He now has money he can spend elsewhere if he chooses and he's added young talent. Let's see what their team looks like on opening day before we jump to conclusions.

[fondybrewfan]

Yeah but he gave up in about 3 months. Several of his players were obvously having down years last year; but to completely blow the thing up when it is very possible they could rebound in 2013. The down performance from these players in 2012 was a convenient excuse to cut payroll and make more money. If they would kept the team intact that they started with in 2012; they would be a contender in 2013 despite the down year.

[JohnBriggs12]

Yeah but he gave up in about 3 months. Several of his players were obvously having down years last year; but to completely blow the thing up when it is very possible they could rebound in 2013. The down performance from these players in 2012 was a convenient excuse to cut payroll and make more money. If they would kept the team intact that they started with in 2012; they would be a contender in 2013 despite the down year.

 

 

Again, it's November 14th. We have no idea what his team will look like in spring. As for last year, they were 13 1/2 games back when they dealt Ramirez to the Dodgers and were playing awful. So he's supposed to hope they don't do the same thing this year with the same high priced players and only draw 2.2 million again? In the same division as the Nationals and the Braves? After 2 failed years, what trade value would those guys have left anyway?

[monty57]

This would bother me a lot more if this fire sale strategy hadn't won them 2 more world series than the Brewers have in their history. This isn't something new for the Marlins and like it or hate it has worked for them in the past.

 

This is exactly what I was thinking. Everyone saying it's a terrible franchise is following a franchise that would kill for the Marlins' post-season success.

[Bnowell4evr]

This would bother me a lot more if this fire sale strategy hadn't won them 2 more world series than the Brewers have in their history. This isn't something new for the Marlins and like it or hate it has worked for them in the past.

 

This is exactly what I was thinking. Everyone saying it's a terrible franchise is following a franchise that would kill for the Marlins' post-season success.

 

From 2004 on I'd rather have what the Brewers have had. When the Seligs were running the team I was envious of what they were doing. Now I'm disgusted.

[jerichoholicninja]

I'm pretty sure Loria can do whatever he wants, since it's his team that HE owns, not MLB or Miami. And the trade isn't even that ridiculous. They got rid of a pitcher in his last year, an aging pitcher that is going to be the most overpaid player in the game soon, and a good but really expensive short stop for a top short stop prospect and a serviceable starter and catcher. If any team other than the Marlins makes this deal there's little to no fuss about it.

[owbc]

Again, it's November 14th. We have no idea what his team will look like in spring. As for last year, they were 13 1/2 games back when they dealt Ramirez to the Dodgers and were playing awful. So he's supposed to hope they don't do the same thing this year with the same high priced players and only draw 2.2 million again? In the same division as the Nationals and the Braves? After 2 failed years, what trade value would those guys have left anyway?

 

Based on the way they marketed the new stadium to the public, they had an obligation to keep some of these guys longer and not bail on their contracts 7 months into the new era. The damage caused by this deal will be far more costly in the long term.

 

As for how the team would look in the spring: any free agent would be an idiot to sign with them now, so they aren't going to be picking up any new talent unless they overpay again. They don't have anything left to trade so there won't be any major-league caliber players coming in that way either. So the team in March will probably be the current roster plus a few guys picked off the scrap heap.

[JackNicholson1974]

The only player they gave up that had any real value was Josh Johnson and he didnt even look like himself last year. Reyes is overpaid, but productive, Buehrle is overpaid and probably not productive. Bonifacio isnt good and Buck is one dimensional. They got back a lot of young talent. I think they will finish with a better record next year than they did this year.

 

Does this stink for Marlins fans who went out and bought Jose Reyes jerseys? yes. Was this a terrible baseball move? Not as terrible as signing Reyes, Buehrle and Bell last off season was.

[adamb100]

I'm not even a Marlins fan and I'm pissed about it. I really hope Selig rejects the trade.

[JohnBriggs12]

I'm not even a Marlins fan and I'm pissed about it. I really hope Selig rejects the trade.

 

Seriously? That isn't going to happen. Just because they did it all at once, is it any worse than Houston dismantling it's team piece by piece by piece? Marlins now have a rotation with 3 really good young starters, in Turner, Alvarez and Eovaldi. They have a young top of the line star in Stanton, a solid middle infield with Escobar and Hechavarria, and a promising young catcher in Rob Brantly. They weren't going to contend this year anyway, but they are pretty far along in building with youth now.

 

They also have money to add pieces here and there and be very respectable this season

[Kelbysdaddy]

And the trade isn't even that ridiculous. They got rid of a pitcher in his last year, an aging pitcher that is going to be the most overpaid player in the game soon, and a good but really expensive short stop for a top short stop prospect and a serviceable starter and catcher. If any team other than the Marlins makes this deal there's little to no fuss about it.

i agree completly!!! they got a few very good pieces back that will contribute for years for much cheaper then what they would have had to spend. marisnick is a top prospet, escobar is a quality shortstop(even though he's a jerk), hechavarria will take over at short when escobar leaves in FA after this season, nicolino and desclafani had very good numbers in low-a this season, mathis is a decent back up for their rookie catcher brantly, and alvarez is a decent 4 or 5 starter. its not great right now but they got cost controlled pieces for the future. over reacting.

 

edit-miami also has 2 years (14/15) of team options for escobar for only 5 mil each year.

[xisxisxis]

I think this is a bad deal for the Blue Jays. The best upside to the deal (Johnson) is only signed for 1 year and last year he didn't look recovered from his arm issues. Reyes and Buehrle are on the wrong side of the productivity peak and their deals are backloaded to cripple trade value. in return the Jays gave up young players who were improving and cost controlled all so they could compete for 3rd or 4th place. Sure the yankees looked old inthe playoffs and the red sox are crappy right now so i can see a belief that the AL east is weak right now, but theYankees have the $ and talent to be formidable in the season, baltimore will be competitive again this year and i think the Rays may "bounce back" and will be near or at the top next year. The jays just took on a ton of salary withnot a great chance of seeing the playoffs. silly......

[Thurston Fluff]

Sometimes teams dump salary when they are about to sell the team. The Marlin fans can only hope this is one of them.

[EdgarDiazRocks]

I think the trade is bad for BOTH teams, and baseball too. The only thing that comes out looking good in this deal is Loria's wallet. Congrats on collecting that revenue sharing money Jeff!

 

Between this and the bottomless Dodgers, MLB is turning into the NBA at an alarming pace.

[torts]

was there this much outcry when Boston traded A-Gon, Crawford, Beckett and Punto for Loney and prospects?

[MNBrew]

The Red Sox weren't receiving revenue sharing money.

[burnzy24]

I'm guessing no big name free agents will ever want to come to Miami as long as Loria is the owner unless they receive a full no-trade clause. Pujols has to be feel pretty good about passing on Miami because they didn't want to give him one. I'm wondering how Reyes feels about this deal since but then again I don't feel that bad for him because he should have known that this could happen without a no-trade clause.

[dlk9s]

I think the problem is more the terrible signings in the first place than this trade. The Marlins showed no baseball savvy at all in throwing money at all those guys. It exploded in their face the same year they opened the green screen stadium and now they are trying to fix their mistake. The trade in and of itself is ok; the problem is that it shines a line on management's incompetence.

[splitterpfj]

My take on it...

 

http://www.baseballintheblood.com/?p=693

[jerichoholicninja]

Free agents go where the money is, actual location is pretty much irrelevant. As long as Loria keeps offering contracts like he did last offseason players will still go there.

[torts]

The Red Sox weren't receiving revenue sharing money.

 

is that really the only difference? revenue sharing? i havent looked to hard, but I couldnt find the amount the Marlins will be receiving.