Blue Jays close to acquiring Josh Johnson, Jose Reyes in "epic trade"

[dlk9s]

Let's send Braunie down on mission to bring Stanton back with him.

[StearnsFTW]

I will never laugh at another trade proposal submitted by a fan.

 

Somebody has to say it... Could the Brewers have pulled this off?

 

Thank God they didn't. Yuck.

[Yeti73]

Looks like Toronto is sending homophobic Escobar, Marisnick and Hechavarria. That would be like us sending Gonzo (I know he's gone), Khris Davis and Hunter Morris. I get that this is all about salary, but I don't think any of those guys are absolutely terrible contracts. Johnson is one year at 13.5, which we all would take in a heartbeat. Reyes is 5 years, $96 million, but he has a $4 mm buyout for that last year. Buehrle is only $11 million next year, but balloons a bit after that to $18 mm a year for two years, which is high, but it isn't terrible considering his resume. Bonifacio is a solid player. He's versatile and still has a few years in arbitration.

[ORBrewerFan]

Miami is getting Toronto's #2 (according to MLB.com) prospect in Marisnick (#35 overall), #5 in Nicolino (#86 overall), and #7 in Hechavarria.

[endaround]

Reyes was a 4.5 win player last year in a down year. When healthy he's been a 6 win player. He's a great value.

[Funketown]

Reyes was a 4.5 win player last year in a down year. When healthy he's been a 6 win player. He's a great value.

 

He's owed $96MM for 5 more years and he's soon to be on the wrong end of thirty. I'm not sure I'd want that contract on my team.

[RockCoCougars]

Kind of a 'Waste Management' type deal for the Blue Jays, but I'm impressed that they were able to land Johnson and Reyes without having to take Heath Bell back as well. I'd be willing to bet that they pitched this deal to Arizona first. Buerhle won't be horrible as a 5th starter, and this way they won't end up overpaying Carlos V. This is basically the same type of deal that the Marlins have been doing for the past 15 years. I'd say that the Jays have a much higher risk of things blowing up in their face, but this deal could also get them into the thick of the AL playoff picture.

[pitchleague]

not to mention Reyes playing SS on turf for 81 home games after being a primarily grass/dirt player for his career is not going to help him out with staying healthy.

[DHonks]

Selig may have to look at this rash of deals....BoSox to LAD, now Miami to Tor. Just not really good for the game. And I agree Loria needs to be eliminated. I still blame him for Montreal!

[owbc]

The trade itself isn't terrible but the message that it sends is a complete disaster. Good luck trading for A-Rod or getting any high priced free agent to ever sign with Miami again. Even if the rebuilding works out and the team starts winning, fans will refuse to get behind players that are unlikely to remain with the team for an extended time.

 

I think this trade will actually improve the reputation of Marlins fans, because it will help outsiders understand why nobody wants to support this franchise (see my posts in the Ozzie Guillen thread).

 

On a positive note, ten years from now I think this will be remembered as the moment that Loria finally crossed the line--and it will ultimately lead to his demise. Nobody outside of Toronto is happy with this.

[TooLiveBrew]

Selig may have to look at this rash of deals....BoSox to LAD, now Miami to Tor. Just not really good for the game. And I agree Loria needs to be eliminated. I still blame him for Montreal!

Can you explain why you feel it's not good for the game?

[ORBrewerFan]

I believe it was former Royal GM Allard Baird that said "if you're going to lose, you might as well lose cheap."

 

$101M payroll for 69 wins. And attendance about 1M less than budgeted for.

 

Just think of the moves the Brewers would have to make if attendance next season dropped to 2M.

[owbc]

I believe it was former Royal GM Allard Baird that said "if you're going to lose, you might as well lose cheap."

 

$101M payroll for 69 wins. And attendance about 1M less than budgeted for.

 

Just think of the moves the Brewers would have to make if attendance next season dropped to 2M.

 

But the Brewers' attendance would never suddenly drop to 2 million because of the relationship that Mark Attanasio and Doug Melvin have built with Milwaukee. Loria already had a bad reputation, so he tried to sell the idea that the new stadium, new logo, new brand meant that things were different now. Many Miamians (the smart ones it appears) were skeptical and didn't buy it, hence why attendance was so low despite the new stadium. For those that did invest time, money, and passion, this was probably the last straw. They will be lucky to draw 1.5 million fans next year.

[ORBrewerFan]

The point is the Marlins budgeted and spent according to a planned attendance of 3M and got about 2.2M. Loria might be a poor owner, but if the fans had gone to the games, they wouldn't have had to make this trade.

 

Regardless of the relationship we have with our owner, if attendance for the Brewers fell that much, payroll would probably be slashed to less than $50M.

[LouisEly]

The bad part about this is that Miami could have been a good trading partner with the Brewers for Mat Gamel if the Brewers are in fact trying to sign Hart to an extension. Miami needs a 1B and Gamel, at league minimum for two more years and under control for 5 years, would have value to a Miami team looking to shed payroll. One year of Josh Johnson at $13.75M would have almost perfectly fit the Brewers needs. Don't know who else would need to have been included with Gamel - as long as it wasn't Peralta - Johnson would've been almost the perfect solution.

 

Miami could still be a trading partner as they still need a 1B, but I don't think Ricky Nolasco is worth $11.5M and even if the Marlins pick up some of that salary he isn't the top-of-the-rotation talent the Brewers need for 1/2 years. I think the Brewers can get just as good of a FA pitcher as Nolasco for less than $11.5M and not have to give up young talent. I don't see much bullpen help that Miami has to offer either; any bullpen talent they have is young and cheap, and they aren't giving that up.

[GAME05]

Marlins payroll has now dropped to $16M before arbitration. what a joke.

 

i wonder if Loria gets his revenue-sharing money directly deposited into his bank account or if he has to go to all the trouble of driving to the bank.

[MNBrew]

Loria probably has someone go take it to the bank for him.

 

What a terrible organization and a disgrace of an owner! Bud needs to nix the deal and oust Loria -- not because it's not necessarily a justifiable deal if the prospects are THAT good, but because it totally kills (again!) any hope for MLB succeeding in that market for the foreseeable future.

[502 to Right]

The Marlins should be contracted. Or forcibly removed from Loria.

[logan82]

I still don't think Florida is a baseball state. As bad as Loria is I don't think the attendance is all his fault. You don't have to look any further than Tampa Bay's attendance to see that. I think the best thing for the franchised would be to remove Loria as owner and move them out of town. That isn't going to happen with the new stadium though.

[trwi7]

How is Florida not a baseball state? The problem with the vast majority of Southern markets in all sports is that there are a lot of transplants from the Northeast and Midwest. Those people already have their own teams that they follow, so they may go to a few games, especially if the team they follow is in town but aren't going to be season ticket holders.

 

It's not really a mystery that you always get a lot of opposing fans in Tampa, Phoenix, Atlanta etc. for all sports.

[jjgott]

The Marlins should be contracted. Or forcibly removed from Loria.

 

I believe the Marlins don't have a single player under contract for 2014. Shouldn't be too hard to just fold em up after this year. (semi-blue).

[torts]

was Miami's stadium built with taxpayer money? Wouldnt the people of Miami have a viable fraud case against Loria now? Im sure this is all stretching... but man, those marlins fans HAVE to be pissed. no number of prospects can make up for losing that many "big name" players.

[Ennder]

This would bother me a lot more if this fire sale strategy hadn't won them 2 more world series than the Brewers have in their history. This isn't something new for the Marlins and like it or hate it has worked for them in the past.

[Patrick425]

I'm not trying to say that Loria is a great owner or anything, but I'm wondering what everyone is suggesting he should have done.

 

I think I read a few weeks ago that the Brewers probably lost money this year. The Brewers had the 11th highest attendance (2.8 mil) and the 10th highest payroll ($97 mil according to USA today). The Marlins had the 18th highest attendance (2.2 mil - with a new stadium!) and the 7th highest payroll ($118 mil). If it's true that the Brewers lost money then I have to imagine that the Marlins lost a lot more and may have lost more money than any other team in MLB in 2012.

 

Probably all of that is Loria's fault, but how do you suggest he go about fixing his past mistakes?..... by adding more payroll? Perhaps you think this payroll cut was too drastic? He should have received more in return for these players? I would just be curious to hear what you would have done had you taken over the Marlins at the end of the 2012 season.

 

You don't know what you don't know about a team's financial situation.

[owbc]

The county forked out something like $450 million, which is actually $2.4 billion when interest is included.

 

Loria campaigned for the money while insisting that the Marlins were losing money at the old stadium. Later when the financial documents leaked, it turned out that he had been turning a profit all along. As a result, he is currently under investigation by the SEC.

 

When the Marlins' real financial situation became apparent, there was a movement to stop construction of the ballpark immediately. However, the contract was written to essentially give Loria the stadium as a gift. The county has essentially no control over the stadium, or even the parking garages which were funded 100% by the taxpayers. The county commissioners fell for it hook, line, and sinker. They didn't even see the Marlins' financial documents before approving the deal. It was just a shady deal all along.

 

The Marlins' finances are fine. They have been turning a profit year after year. They did not need to dump 90% of their payroll. If they wanted to fix the past mistakes Loria should sign Giancarlo Stanton to a long-term deal that isn't backloaded. He should invest in a GM and a long term plan for building a winning culture. He should remove his crony David Samson immediately. If he actually showed any commitment to Marlins fans or even the 5 remaining Marlins players, people would understand. The reality is that he only cares about turning a profit. Yes, they needed to cut salary. But did they need to become the Houston Astros? No.

 

There are a number of problems with the Florida is a bad baseball state argument, I've pointed them out several times before but it is obvious that I'm not going to change anyone's mind even though I live in Miami and have no connection to the Marlins nor any reason to defend them. If there were no Marlins fans, I would tell you that, but the reality is completely different. Miami is not Tampa Bay, there is almost nothing in common between the two cities. You can not repeatedly betray the trust of your fans and expect them to come back again and again. Everyone saluted Dodgers fans for staying away from the McCourts but somehow Marlins fans are bad for not trusting Loria. There are a lot of people in Miami saying "I told you so" today who refused to buy tickets last year. Are they bad fans, or are they the smart ones?