R.A. Dickey

[LouisEly]

"Winning isn't about "veteraness", it's about relative talent, and the Brewers need to keep as much talent stockpiled as possible. "

 

The A's were supposed to be a much better team than the Tigers because they had more wins despite supposedly playing in a tougher division, and the Nationals had the best record in baseball. Neither team made it to their LCS, much less the World Series, getting bounced by the more "veteraness" of the Tigers and the Cardinals. For all those great "Moneyball" Oakland teams of the 2000's, only one made it as far as the ALCS and not one made it to the World Series.

 

Winning in the post-season when the pressure and cameras are on, usually takes a little more than talent.

[Raw Biz]

"Winning isn't about "veteraness", it's about relative talent, and the Brewers need to keep as much talent stockpiled as possible. "

 

The A's were supposed to be a much better team than the Tigers because they had more wins despite supposedly playing in a tougher division, and the Nationals had the best record in baseball. Neither team made it to their LCS, much less the World Series, getting bounced by the more "veteraness" of the Tigers and the Cardinals. For all those great "Moneyball" Oakland teams of the 2000's, only one made it as far as the ALCS and not one made it to the World Series.

 

Winning in the post-season when the pressure and cameras are on, usually takes a little more than talent.

 

Except first you have to get there and to do so, you usually need talent. Then from there, anything can happen.

[trwi7]

"Winning isn't about "veteraness", it's about relative talent, and the Brewers need to keep as much talent stockpiled as possible. "

 

The A's were supposed to be a much better team than the Tigers because they had more wins despite supposedly playing in a tougher division, and the Nationals had the best record in baseball. Neither team made it to their LCS, much less the World Series, getting bounced by the more "veteraness" of the Tigers and the Cardinals. For all those great "Moneyball" Oakland teams of the 2000's, only one made it as far as the ALCS and not one made it to the World Series.

 

Winning in the post-season when the pressure and cameras are on, usually takes a little more than talent.

 

They lost to Verlander twice and the other game they lost came on veteran Grant Balfour giving up a run in the 9th and Coco Crisp, another veteran dropping a flyball that led to two unearned runs.

[sveumrules]

Then from there, anything can happen.

 

There have now been 18 World Series in the "Wild Card Era" and thus 18 World Series Champions. Said victorious teams are listed subsequently based on what place they finished in overall MLB standings during their respective banner years.

 

First (3) : 1998 Yankees, 2007 Red Sox & 2009 Yankees.

Second (2) : 1995 Braves & 2005 White Sox.

Third (3) : 1996 Yankees, 1999 Yankees & 2004 Red Sox.

Fourth (3) : 1997 Marlins, 2002 Angels & 2012 Giants.

Fifth (2) : 2008 Phillies & 2010 Giants.

Sixth (1) : 2001 Diamondbacks.

Seventh (1) : 2003 Marlins.

Eighth (1) : 2011 Cardinals.

Ninth (1) : 2000 Yankees.

Thirteenth (!) : 2006 Cardinals.

 

I don't know a quick way to measure the "veteran" composition of each team relative to the other teams in that year's playoff field but it seems like this list supports the notion of "anything can happen" with an added caveat of "being one of the best four teams in MLB in any given year certainly helps kinda."

 

Also, R.A. Dickey is pretty neat.

[Roderick]

Just won the NL Cy Young. Up goes the price if we are interested.

 

I don't think the fact that a player wins or doesn't win an award really affects trade value much, if at all. The player's stats, mechanics, make-up, age, contract, etc. are all unaffected by some arbitrary award voted on by writers.

 

Well, whichever team he is on is surely going to have their marketing dept utilize the award to try and sell more tickets. So, I would say yes the award will cost teams a little something extra.

[JimH5]

I would love to have Dickey on the Brewers, though I can't see the Mets giving him up and not getting something major in return.

 

He just won the Cy Young award, and there's no reason to think he can't keep throwing his knuckler into his early to mid 40s.

 

If they're looking for catcher and OF in return, I think we're talking about Lucroy and Gomez or Lucroy and Aoki.

 

If it's prospects, I don't think the Brewers have enough to get him.

[sheetskout]

I heard Dickey on the MLB Radio Network this afternoon. What a stand up guy! Intelligent too. Spoke much about the "craft" of being a knuckleball pitcher. About the struggle going to the knuckleball and the patience the Mets showed with him and that they supported him in this venture. A really great interview from which I came away with a phenomenal impression. That being said....

 

I want absolutely no part of a 38-year old knuckleball-artist in Miller Park.

[TooLiveBrew]

I would love to have Dickey on the Brewers, though I can't see the Mets giving him up and not getting something major in return.

 

He just won the Cy Young award, and there's no reason to think he can't keep throwing his knuckler into his early to mid 40s.

 

If they're looking for catcher and OF in return, I think we're talking about Lucroy and Gomez or Lucroy and Aoki.

 

If it's prospects, I don't think the Brewers have enough to get him.

For one season of a 38-yo. Lucroy... Lucroy+!. I have to channel McEnroe... "You have got to be kidding me!"

[Bnowell4evr]

I would love to have Dickey on the Brewers, though I can't see the Mets giving him up and not getting something major in return.

 

He just won the Cy Young award, and there's no reason to think he can't keep throwing his knuckler into his early to mid 40s.

 

If they're looking for catcher and OF in return, I think we're talking about Lucroy and Gomez or Lucroy and Aoki.

 

If it's prospects, I don't think the Brewers have enough to get him.

For one season of a 38-yo. Lucroy... Lucroy+!. I have to channel McEnroe... "You have got to be kidding me!"

 

I agree that Lucroy+ is ridiculous but what about Hart for Dickey? Dickey's value is difficult to assess. How much can the Mets expect to get for 1 season of a 38 year old Knuckleballer?

[trwi7]

I don't think the rebuilding Mets would want a 30 year old corner outfielder/first baseman in the last year of his contract for Dickey. I don't even want Dickey. Last year of his deal, I wouldn't want to re-sign him and I doubt he's even close to being as good as he was in 2013 as he was in 2012.

[KCBrewerfan34]

I would love to have Dickey on the Brewers, though I can't see the Mets giving him up and not getting something major in return.

 

He just won the Cy Young award, and there's no reason to think he can't keep throwing his knuckler into his early to mid 40s.

 

If they're looking for catcher and OF in return, I think we're talking about Lucroy and Gomez or Lucroy and Aoki.

 

If it's prospects, I don't think the Brewers have enough to get him.

 

Besides the fact that I'm predicting LuCroy will make the all-star team this year, aaahh no way in HECK!! Jim are you a Mets fan?? OMG that's an awful deal.

[TooLiveBrew]

I would love to have Dickey on the Brewers, though I can't see the Mets giving him up and not getting something major in return.

 

He just won the Cy Young award, and there's no reason to think he can't keep throwing his knuckler into his early to mid 40s.

 

If they're looking for catcher and OF in return, I think we're talking about Lucroy and Gomez or Lucroy and Aoki.

 

If it's prospects, I don't think the Brewers have enough to get him.

 

Besides the fact that I'm predicting LuCroy will make the all-star team this year, aaahh no way in HECK!! Jim are you a Mets fan?? OMG that's an awful deal.

http://i.imgur.com/5ffTf.gif

[trwi7]

Besides the fact that I'm predicting LuCroy will make the all-star team this year, aaahh no way in HECK!! Jim are you a Mets fan?? OMG that's an awful deal.

 

He didn't advocate that trade. He just said that's probably what the Mets would want.

[SRB]

Can anyone think of a player (past or present) with a harder value to peg than Dickey?

 

-Cy Young winner

-Amazing stats last few seasons

-Pedestrian stats over entire career

-Throws knuckleball

-38 years old (does he turn 39 next season?)

-Last year of contract

 

I honestly have no clue what his value is on the trade market, or as a free agent for that matter.

[JimH5]

He didn't advocate that trade. He just said that's probably what the Mets would want.

 

Thank you. . .that's true.

 

Besides the fact that I'm predicting LuCroy will make the all-star team this year, aaahh no way in HECK!! Jim are you a Mets fan?? OMG that's an awful deal.

 

I like the Mets, but I'm a Brewers fan. And Dickey made the All Star team this year, so he's already one ahead of Lucroy.

 

 

If Dickey joins the Brewers, he doesn't slip in behind Gallardo into the #2 or #3 spot. He becomes the ace. He's on a three year run with a 12.1 WAR. Gallardo has never done that. Heck, Ben Sheets' best 3-year run was good for a 12.3 WAR.

 

Dickey's signed for next year at $5 million, which is at least $12 million under value. He's an innings eater, something that every team with a shaky bullpen needs.

 

He could keep his knuckler going for another 4-5 years, and doesn't appear to be throwing it with risk of injury.

 

So I don't think we can expect Maldonado or Schaefer or any group of middling prospects to pry him away.

 

For half-a-season of Sabathia, we gave up a package, including someone who was considered a top 15 prospect in the game. The Brewers don't have anybody like that in their system now, so to get a full season of Dickey, it's going to mean someone from the major league roster.

[TooLiveBrew]

If the Mets asked for Lucroy for one season of Dickey (who's eligible for FA after '13), they'd rightfully be hung up on. I even hesitate, personally, to consider moving 5+ more seasons of Maldonado for one of Dickey. If the Mets are going to be asking for a valuable piece in exchange for him, I'd rather the Brewers not even explore the possibility.

[Roderick]

If the Mets asked for Lucroy for one season of Dickey (who's eligible for FA after '13), they'd rightfully be hung up on. I even hesitate, personally, to consider moving 5+ more seasons of Maldonado for one of Dickey. If the Mets are going to be asking for a valuable piece in exchange for him, I'd rather the Brewers not even explore the possibility.

 

You have to think that the probability of Dickey being good enough in 2013 to get the $14M qualifying offer for 2014 is over 50%. So you would have also calculate that he also could bring you a draft pick when trying to figure out his trade value.

 

If you are the Mets, would you trade Dickey for five controlled years of a cheap league average catcher plus a minor league pitcher? Would you consider Maldanado a league average catcher going forward?

 

It would seem that Maldanado would be an improvement over Thole, Recker that the Mets have on their roster.

[TooLiveBrew]

That's a good point on the QO/comp pick. No, I wouldn't take Maldonado alone for him if I'm the Mets. They can do better than that, most likely. Although, I still would rather the Brewers have 6 more seasons of Maldonado than 1 of Dickey plus a comp pick.

[Outlander]

Who do you think then that the Brewers would have to trade to get him? None of us here are Doug Melvin and can pull the trigger on a deal I'm curious what it would take to get Dickey not if somebody would approve or not approve of the trade.

[Outlander]

According to the New York Daily News:

 

"(They) would want a monster package for (R.A.) Dickey, and if they don’t get it, probably would not trade him. They aren’t approaching teams on this, but they’re letting teams come to them." The executive thinks the Mets would ask for "a few high-end prospects or major leaguers, likely outfielders or catching help.

 

So it looks like they are sticking with catching and outfield help in order to get a deal done.

[KCBrewerfan34]

How about Gomez straight up?

[chickinbrickin]

I would love to have Dickey on the Brewers, though I can't see the Mets giving him up and not getting something major in return.

 

He just won the Cy Young award, and there's no reason to think he can't keep throwing his knuckler into his early to mid 40s.

If they're looking for catcher and OF in return, I think we're talking about Lucroy and Gomez or Lucroy and Aoki.

 

If it's prospects, I don't think the Brewers have enough to get him.

 

Keep in mind the main reason Dickey is so effective is due to his velocity. He doesn't throw a standard knuckle ball. His knuckleball sits around 77 mph, and is his ko pitch. If that velocity, which was the highest of his career, dips he could be in trouble. Especially in a hitters park like Miller Park.

 

Not saying he can't keep throwing it long term, but he isn't the typical rubber arm knuckleballer.

[Baldkin]

I would love to have Dickey on the Brewers, though I can't see the Mets giving him up and not getting something major in return.

 

He just won the Cy Young award, and there's no reason to think he can't keep throwing his knuckler into his early to mid 40s.

If they're looking for catcher and OF in return, I think we're talking about Lucroy and Gomez or Lucroy and Aoki.

 

If it's prospects, I don't think the Brewers have enough to get him.

 

Keep in mind the main reason Dickey is so effective is due to his velocity. He doesn't throw a standard knuckle ball. His knuckleball sits around 77 mph, and is his ko pitch. If that velocity, which was the highest of his career, dips he could be in trouble. Especially in a hitters park like Miller Park.

 

Not saying he can't keep throwing it long term, but he isn't the typical rubber arm knuckleballer.

 

Much like a good changeup artist, his success is the speed difference. He throws 2 different knucklers, one 84ish, and one 70ish.

[brewcrewdue80]

Ok. I tabbed Dickey 2seasons ago on my fantasy team than when I drafted him in like the 13th rd this year I said he would be top20pitcher in MLB. He did me better. Anyway, Dickey is a better knuckleballer than anyone has probably seen. He's stated he's able to control where the knuckle ball moves. Down to up. Up to down. Changes up the speed. He also has a FB thrown harder than a knuckleballer throws. That's the intriguing part on him. With the harder FB, is his shoulder subject to higher strain? So while Knuckleballers have a history pitching in to mid 40s can Dickey? Anything prior to last three years ignore on Dickeys pitching history. He wasn't a Knuckleballer. He dabbled with that pitch but he tried making it in the bigs with regular stuff, and was shelled. None of that is his pitching today.

So, Dickey imo not only can duplicate his season this year, I believe he can pitch at a very high level at least another 5years. Think about it, how many knuckleball abs are there by MLeaguers these days? What he throws is something the majority of batter's facing him have zero experience to what 10-25PA? He's going to remain successful so long as he controls the pitch. And he's said he's only improved.

 

That being said. First. Mets aren't taking on Prospect Pitching. Not at least until they've unloaded the amount they have to where they have to replenish.

So it leaves the Catcher/OF as pieces Mets want. Mets aren't in the big spending market, if they were both Dickey and Wright would be signed. This means Hart isn't an option.

Gomez? Doubt it. Schafer then. I'd wager Aoki with 2yrs friendly contract has more value.(Hate to see him go) Catcher. Lucroy has a friendly ML contract, a proven bat, I can't see how Brewers unload him. Maldanado. Great defense catcher. Arby years ahead of him. Mets to have all those young pitchers and a great defensive catcher for them has to be valuable to Mets. I think Aoki,Maldanado would get the deal done.

5mil for Dickey a need to replace Aoki(Hamilton) rumors sorta fits. Not a fan, I get it. In the talks I'd be working a suggested contract extension by the Mets to Dickey to give Brewers a longer than 1yr service. Mets like I said can't give the money but Brewers maybe can. (who knows what Mets have been offering Dickey) 10-12/yr? Maybe they're going 8-10?

Any way. Dickey certainly can be expected for 200ip. Not to mention he can pitch CGs. This young staff may have a spell of 4ip starts and a Dickey CG would give the bullpen a needed break. Even on the 1yr aspect of Dickey you gotta ask with Brewers makeup wouldn't winning now be prudent? Dickey,Gallardo is nice for Playoffs.

So in arguing losing Maldanado,Schafer no way! Hey what if no way meant WS? Is that not the big goal you set out to do? Brewers have the position starters in place losing 2bench players can be afforded(obviously risk if starters injured). What they lack is the ace. Grienke will cost 20+mil. That's your only other ace on market. 5mil and 2bench players for Cy Young ace Dickey. Can you argue against that? Yea Grienke was on this team and we didn't make playoffs. That's all on no SS. No 1b, Aoki being discovered, Lucroy being injured. Wolf,bullpen. Things that majority are solved. Dickey like I said his CG outings that's like 1/2 an arm in the bullpen alone through a season! He is worth a lot to look at for Brewers in 2013. His Cy Young isn't a fluke rather an ongoing improvement in skill shown the past 3years. That skill isn't leaving him in 2013 if anytime soon. With the offense set I'm on board obtaining Dickey for 1season. It's a small window to win with this offense 2013? Only? Would just happen to coincide with Dickeys contract.

[Roderick]

According to the New York Daily News:

 

"(They) would want a monster package for (R.A.) Dickey, and if they don’t get it, probably would not trade him. They aren’t approaching teams on this, but they’re letting teams come to them." The executive thinks the Mets would ask for "a few high-end prospects or major leaguers, likely outfielders or catching help.

 

So it looks like they are sticking with catching and outfield help in order to get a deal done.

 

It would seem the price of catching will go up with the Martin signing by the Pirates. Other than the price he got, it also takes another catcher out of FA, making Maldanado that much more valuable.