No Gold Glove for Braun

[Bombers]

Carlos Gonzalez wins it ... Braun played great. Hopefully he wins one eventually.

[TURBO]

rigged!

[burnzy24]

A-Ram didn't win either. Congrats to JJ Hardy though.

[DoubleSwitch]

I checked Rock's twitter hoping for a GGless ARam induced rant. THERE'S STILL TIME!

[Ennder]

ARam had a great year defensively but he didn't deserve a GG. Braun was much closer to deserving it. Nice to see Hardy finally get some love as he has been one of the better SS in baseball for a long time now.

[The stache]

Why the hell is Carlos Gonzalez the Gold Glove winner in left? Third lowest range factor of all NL left fielders (1.71 to Braun's 1.93), only a very slight fielding pct advantage (.982 to .979, second-worst and worst in the NL for their positions), and dWAR is a joke. Braun's is not great (dWAR at 0.1), but CarGo has a dWAR of -1.9.

[1992casey]

The Range Factor stat should be folded, spindled, and mutilated. Range factors go down for defenders who play behind pitchers with high strikeout totals. Range factors go up for outfielders who defend behind flyball pitchers. The stat tells us little to nothing about actual defense.

[The stache]

Gonzalez had an atrocious year in the field. Where is the supporting #s to justify his winning it?

 

Also, Braun got hosed out of the Hank Aaron Award when it was CLEAR he was the best offensive player in the NL.

 

And now per Tom Haudricourt, several BBWAA voters, the same sheep who had no problem voting for Barry Bonds and his pumpkin head when it came to MVP, are now going to feign moral indignation in excluding Ryan Braun from their ballots even though he WON his appeal.

[monty57]

And now per Tom Haudricourt, several BBWAA voters, the same sheep who had no problem voting for Barry Bonds and his pumpkin head when it came to MVP, are now going to feign moral indignation in excluding Ryan Braun from their ballots even though he WON his appeal.

 

Yep. It's a shame, but Braun's successful defense could lead "professional" writers to give him more of a cold shoulder than the legions of players who couldn't successfully defend themselves. They'll look at him as cheating twice, once because they believe he took PEDs, and once because they believe he skirted the system and got off on a technicality. Of course, this is exactly what MLB wants, which is why they attacked the decision so vehemently when it was announced.

 

I'd be surprised if Braun wins another "vote-in" award when the voting is done by "professionals." He'll still get voted into the All Star game regularly by the fans. This of course will be used against him in Hall of Fame balloting (he only won one MVP, didn't get any Gold Gloves, didn't get enough Silver Sluggers, etc).

 

Thankfully, I think Braun's the type of personality who will say "in that case, I'll just need to put up numbers so good no one can doubt I should be in the Hall of Fame."

[owbc]

It will be interesting to see if Braun's blacklisting is a one-year exclusion or a permanent thing. My feeling is that it is probably a one-year blacklist to make up for the award that many believe he shouldn't have gotten last year. The unfortunate part about it is that even elite players only have a 1-3 year window where they perform at the top of the league. Then the younger generation takes over.

 

I don't really care about the gold gloves, the voting for that award has repeatedly been so bad that it has lost legitimacy.

 

As for the HOF, he has a long way to go for that. If he puts up the numbers and doesn't test positive again, he's probably ok. A larger concern is if those nagging injuries start to become a bigger problem in his 30s.

[logan82]

As for the HOF, he has a long way to go for that. If he outs up the numbers and doesn't test positive again, he's probably ok. A larger concern is if those nagging injuries start to become a bigger problem in his 30s.

His 30's are not that far away. I don't think players perform as well into their late 30's like they used to so. Braun also got sort of a relatively late start to his career. Because of that, I don't think Braun will be a Hall of Famer at the end of his career. I just don't know if his counting stats will be there. Of course the thinking behind voting for the Hall of Fame may change by then.

[owbc]

His 30's are not that far away. I don't think players perform as well into their late 30's like they used to so. Braun also got sort of a relatively late start to his career. Because of that, I don't think Braun will be a Hall of Famer at the end of his career. I just don't know if his counting stats will be there. Of course the thinking behind voting for the Hall of Fame may change by then.

 

I agree, there is a strong probability that he might end up with around 2,500 hits and 450 HR. Not standard HOF numbers, especially if the PED issue still hasn't gone away. Hopefully he is still playing like Aramis Ramirez at age 34.

[Ennder]

He has the body type to stay productive a long time and he plays a position that isn't very demanding on the body. He could easily play his final years in the AL as a DH as well. I think it is a stretch to expect him to break down before his late 30s barring injuries. The constant intercostal issues are a very serious concern for his longevity though.

[logan82]

I think it is a stretch to expect him to break down before his late 30s barring injuries. The constant intercostal issues are a very serious concern for his longevity though.

I don't think he will break down. He might not even miss any games. I am concerned with the nagging itercostal injuries he has almost every year affecting his production. Like I said though, there may be a different mindset on HOF numbers by the time Braun retires.

[Ennder]

I guess my point was that Braun is the perfect situation to stay productive into his mid 30s. He isn't a big muscle guy who tend to start having issues in their early 30s. He isn't playing 3B, 2B, SS, C or CF which all wear a body down a lot faster. If I had to pick a handful of under 30 guys who would stay productive a long time he would be towards the top of the list. I expect him to stay productive longer than any other player currently on the Brewers roster for sure.

[dlk9s]

I am concerned with the nagging itercostal injuries he has almost every year affecting his production.

 

If those injuries are affecting his production, I hope he keeps getting them.

[logan82]

I guess my point was that Braun is the perfect situation to stay productive into his mid 30s. He isn't a big muscle guy who tend to start having issues in their early 30s. He isn't playing 3B, 2B, SS, C or CF which all wear a body down a lot faster. If I had to pick a handful of under 30 guys who would stay productive a long time he would be towards the top of the list. I expect him to stay productive longer than any other player currently on the Brewers roster for sure.

He needs to keep up this production into his late 30's though. Not just till his mid 30's. 8 years at 40HR to get to 500. 9@35. 10@30.

 

logan82 said:

I am concerned with the nagging itercostal injuries he has almost every year affecting his production.

 

 

If those injuries are affecting his production, I hope he keeps getting them.

They have not had a big effect yet but that could easily change as he gets older. The body doesn't heal as quick. It also may have already effected him. His stats may have been much better if he was healthier.

[Warning Track Power]

He needs to keep up this production into his late 30's though. Not just till his mid 30's. 8 years at 40HR to get to 500. 9@35. 10@30.

 

Averaging 30 HRs over the next 10 years I don't think will be a problem for Braun. Let's look at the next 5 year window at the end of which Braun will have just concluded his age 33 season (Braun was born in November) and just coming out of his prime. I think he will be around the 40 HR mark for the next 5 seasons, an additional 200 HR putting him at 402. Additionally, I fully expect Braun to continue at the 190 hit per season pace for those 5 years as well, an additional 950 hits putting him at 2,039.

 

I don't think 98 HR over the final 5 years of that 10 year window to get to 500 HR will be an issue unless Braun falls off significantly or injuries limit him. 961 hits may be more of a chore but if he is at 500 HR and say 2,800 hits, it will be seriously difficult to keep him out of the HOF.

 

Put another way, Chipper Jones has 468 HRs and 2,726 hits. Do you think he won't be in the HOF?

[logan82]

Put another way, Chipper Jones has 468 HRs and 2,726 hits. Do you think he won't be in the HOF?

Until Bruan is one of the main players on a team that wins 11 straight division championships he isn't in the same category as Chipper. Not saying I think it is right, just how I think the voters will see it.

[Ennder]

Jones also has the whole switch hitting thing going for him and his stats are suppressed by injury so he will get a little bit of a mulligan, he is also an adored player and played a more premium position. I think Braun has a really good shot at the HOF personally assuming he is never linked to steroids again. Obviously nobody has a great shot at it at his age since the odds are they will get hurt before they play long enough, but his odds are better than most.

[logan82]

Being in Milwaukee I feel he needs to have a little better stats or be part of a team that wins the division pretty consistently for several years to make it. I do feel that in the current run environment he will not have the traditional HR numbers we are used to seeing from recently retired guys. I am think that may translate to lowered HOF standards.

 

I think Braun is a better power hitter than Chipper was at the same point in their careers. Maybe a better hitter overall also.

[endaround]

Its really hard to say given the difference in run environments, but it really is fairly close. Jones's age 29 season he had a wRC+ of 161, Braun was 162 last year.

[logan82]

It really is pretty close and Chipper played quite a few games per year until his age 32 year.

 

Pretty similar stats but Braun plays in a lower run environment. Chipper then Braun.

 

 

G PA AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI SB CS BB SO BA OBP SLG OPS OPS+

927 4068 3466 658 1049 203 18 189 635 97 26 553 526 0.303 0.395 0.535 0.931 138

 

883 3854 3477 614 1089 223 29 202 643 126 31 305 688 0.313 0.374 0.568 0.943 147

[Dragonbait]

Its a shame that the Brewer's haven't won a gold glove since '82.

Jenkins definately should have won at least one.

[Ennder]

Unfortunately for Jenkins he played in an age where CF won all of the gold gloves so he never stood a good chance.