Miguel Cabrera wins the Triple Crown

[502 to Right]

Baseballreference.com has Trout at 8.6 at oWAR and Cabrera at 7.5 oWAR. Trout is 2.2 dWAR and Cabrera is -0.2 dWAR. So even just measuring offensive WAR Trout comes out on top.

[LouisEly]

So you don't care about defense when it comes to the MVP award?

 

Cabrera volunteered to switch positions to accommodate Fielder. He volunteered to play a position he hasn't played regularly since 2007. The act of switching positions voluntarily to accommodate another player to try to make your team better weighs more to me than actual defensive metrics, subjective or objective.

 

Cabrera accounted for a higher percentage of his team's WAR than Trout (I believe someone quoted 33% vs. below 25%). It could be argued that Cabrera was more valuable to his team than Trout.

 

Rickey Henderson won one MVP, a year with his 10th highest SB total, finished 10th in the MVP the year he stole 130 bases, and never finished higher than 10th in any of the years he stole over 100 bases. Vince Coleman never finished higher than 11th in MVP voting in any of the years he stole over 100 bases. I place very little value on SBs in determining the MVP.

 

You can argue that RBIs are a factor of having opportunities. Runs are also a factor of having guys behind you who can hit. Each statistic is dependent on teammates. I'll argue that RBIs is also a function of not buckling under pressure.

 

Trout had an amazing year. But Cabrera shined in August and September whereas Trout wilted those two months. Yes, the Angels won more games than Detroit, but Cabrera to me was more valuable to his team than Trout. Trout is deserving, but I give the nod to Cabrera.

[zzzmanwitz]

 

But Cabrera shined in August and September whereas Trout wilted those two months. Yes, the Angels won more games than Detroit, but Cabrera to me was more valuable to his team than Trout. Trout is deserving, but I give the nod to Cabrera.

 

Last time I checked, wins in June and July count the same as wins in August and September.

[logan82]

Cabrera volunteered to switch positions to accommodate Fielder. He volunteered to play a position he hasn't played regularly since 2007. The act of switching positions voluntarily to accommodate another player to try to make your team better weighs more to me than actual defensive metrics, subjective or objective.

I doubt that hurt his defense much. It isn't like he was great at 1B either. They probably should have moved him to LF.

[Ennder]

Cabrera did not volunteer to switch positions. He asked to switch positions repeatedly before they even got Fielder. Not a case of being a team player that people try to make it out to be.

[DuWayne Steurer]

Cabrera did not volunteer to switch positions. He asked to switch positions repeatedly before they even got Fielder. Not a case of being a team player that people try to make it out to be.

 

 

Besides, what was he going to do, refuse to move off of 1st base after the Tigers signed Fielder?

 

I'm tired of hearing the argument that him 'volunteering' to move to third somehow enhances his MVP'ness. I don't care what the circumstances are that caused you to end up at a defensive spot. If you're not good at it, I'm not going to give you MVP kudos for it.

[Tedaldtada]

So you don't care about defense when it comes to the MVP award?

 

Cabrera volunteered to switch positions to accommodate Fielder. He volunteered to play a position he hasn't played regularly since 2007. The act of switching positions voluntarily to accommodate another player to try to make your team better weighs more to me than actual defensive metrics, subjective or objective.

 

Cabrera accounted for a higher percentage of his team's WAR than Trout (I believe someone quoted 33% vs. below 25%). It could be argued that Cabrera was more valuable to his team than Trout.

 

Rickey Henderson won one MVP, a year with his 10th highest SB total, finished 10th in the MVP the year he stole 130 bases, and never finished higher than 10th in any of the years he stole over 100 bases. Vince Coleman never finished higher than 11th in MVP voting in any of the years he stole over 100 bases. I place very little value on SBs in determining the MVP.

 

You can argue that RBIs are a factor of having opportunities. Runs are also a factor of having guys behind you who can hit. Each statistic is dependent on teammates. I'll argue that RBIs is also a function of not buckling under pressure.

 

Trout had an amazing year. But Cabrera shined in August and September whereas Trout wilted those two months. Yes, the Angels won more games than Detroit, but Cabrera to me was more valuable to his team than Trout. Trout is deserving, but I give the nod to Cabrera.

 

That is some pretty strange reasoning. If I did not know you better, I would say you are just plain trolling at this point.

[RockCoCougars]

I'll stand by my contention that Cabrera deserves the MVP. Winning the Triple Crown in this day and age is an amazing feat. Think about it, no one has done it since the leagues had 10 teams each with no DH. The number of qualifiers for the batting title alone has to have increased 50 percent.

[reillymcshane]

Think of it this way: if someone said you could have an exact replica of Trout's or Cabrera's 2012 season (offense and defense) for next year, which would you pick.

 

I believe 9 out of 10 people pick Trout. Both players were amazing at the plate, but Trout's defense and base running make him the best player in the AL.

 

If you want to give Miggy extra credit for his team making the playoffs, that's fine. Some people factor that in. But I think the vast majority of people would take Trout's performance over Miggy's. That doesn't diminish Cabrera's great season. It only shows how awesome Trout was.

[The stache]

Both had great years, but I can't recall Miguel Cabrera jumping over the wall to rob somebody of a home run. I've seen Mike Trout do it several times.

 

How many runs has Trout saved with his defense?

 

Cabrera is a great hitter. He does squat as a base runner or fielder.

Trout is a great hitter that is a soon-to-be Gold Glove center fielder, and the best base stealer in the league.

 

Trout wins the MVP, imho, because he impacts the game in more ways than Cabrera.

 

For all those saying "but Cabrera did something that hasn't happened in 45 years", how many rookies have hit .326 with 30 HR, 49 SB and 129 runs scored...while playing in only 139 games? It's never happened.

 

OPS is, again imho, the purest metric of a player's offensive production. It includes power (slugging) and on base (hitting/walking). Cabrera's .999 OPS was tops in the AL. Trout's OPS was .963. Second. Trout nearly matches perhaps the best pure hitter in the game as a 20 year old rookie. Add in the other aspects of Trout's game, and it's clear he's the MVP.

[Funketown]

Here's one reason the triple crown argument should be used to justify giving the MVP to Cabrera over Trout:

 

Let's say I view Cabrera as the most value player because of the triple crown, so I decide:

 

Cabrera > Trout

 

Now, what if Josh Hamilton had hit 45 HR's but otherwise had an identical season, so he'd clearly be far behind both Cabrera and Trout in terms of candidacy for the MVP. Then Cabrera wouldn't win the 3C and I wouldn't view him as the MVP (would anybody be making the Cabrera argument if he didn't win the MVP?). So if Hamilton just connected two more times, I'd be voting:

 

Trout > Cabrera

 

If you vote to give Cabrera the edge solely because of the 3C, that means that your relative ranking of Trout vs. Cabrera depends on Josh Hamilton. Why should Josh Hamilton's performance have any effect on how you rank Trout and Cabrera?

 

It's really cool that Miguel Cabrera won the 3C this season, even if RBI's aren't a good measure of offensive performance, as it holds a major amount of historical significance and hasn't been done for decades. That's hardly sufficient to justify giving him the MVP over Trout, who was the better player this season.

[RockCoCougars]

Another argument that I have for Cabrera is that he played 15 percent more games than Trout. Has any position player MVP played in less than 140 games in a non-shortened season in the 162 game era?

 

EDIT: Just looked it up. Looks like there are four guys- Mantle 1962, Stargell 1979, Bonds 2003 and Hamilton 2008.

[logan82]

If you want to give Miggy extra credit for his team making the playoffs, that's fine.

I don't know how that would be a solid argument. Trout's team won more games in a tougher division.

[trwi7]

Another argument that I have for Cabrera is that he played 15 percent more games than Trout. Has any position player MVP played in less than 140 games in a non-shortened season in the 162 game era?

 

EDIT: Just looked it up. Looks like there are four guys- Mantle 1962, Stargell 1979, Bonds 2003 and Hamilton 2008.

 

I don't know how you can hold that against Trout. It's not like he wanted to start in the minors. If anything, it makes Trout's stats that much more impressive.

[Ennder]

Another argument that I have for Cabrera is that he played 15 percent more games than Trout. Has any position player MVP played in less than 140 games in a non-shortened season in the 162 game era?

 

EDIT: Just looked it up. Looks like there are four guys- Mantle 1962, Stargell 1979, Bonds 2003 and Hamilton 2008.

 

I don't know how you can hold that against Trout. It's not like he wanted to start in the minors. If anything, it makes Trout's stats that much more impressive.

 

 

Yeah this seems like a slam dunk reason to give Trout the edge since he was more valuable in fewer games.

[LouisEly]

 

That is some pretty strange reasoning. If I did not know you better, I would say you are just plain trolling at this point.

 

It's strange reasoning because of how close it is. The are both deserving, so you can't look at obvious statistics and have to split hairs and look at the minutia.

 

I don't care if Trout is a 20-year-old rookie. This isn't Rookie of the Year or Prospect of the Year, it's MVP.

[buckeyesteve]

I thought before hearing any of the talking heads on tv, that Cabrera was a lock for MVP. Then I hear some people say it is an old school vs new school argument.

 

For me - I can't fathom a guy winning the triple crown and NOT winning MVP (yes I know it happened in the past).

 

I don't recall defense ever playing a part in the MVP, kind of in a strange, opposite way, that offense plays a MAJOR role in who wins gold gloves, which is the most insane thing ever.

 

Anyway - I've got Cabrera in a landslide and for me, it isn't even close. (but I do think it is interesting that some others think Trout and for that, I will be opening up my brain to new ideas moving forward and maybe investigating some more of these WAR numbers, etc.)

[markedman5]

I too think Carbrera will win easily. Whether or not he should win is a different argument but I have no doubt Cabrera will win.

[Funketown]

I don't see why you even need to consider advanced metrics to give the edge to Trout. He was about as productive offensively and played elite defense in CF, while Cabrera played poor defense at 3B. Not to mention, Trout was a monster on the basepaths while Cabrera was Cabrera on the basepaths.

[RockCoCougars]

I thought before hearing any of the talking heads on tv, that Cabrera was a lock for MVP. Then I hear some people say it is an old school vs new school argument.

 

It is. I'd like to see a Sportsnation type AL MVP poll with age breakdown.

 

I stated before, you can't take anything away from Trout, but it's Cabrera without a doubt for me. Let's throw RBI out of the mix. Cabrera 15 more homers, about 20 more XBH and for all this talk about getting on base, he got on base more. Trout has the advantage of OBP, SB and defense, but to me, that doesn't close the gap enough.

[trwi7]

for all this talk about getting on base, he got on base more. Trout has the advantage of OBP

 

http://images.wikia.com/uncyclopedia/images/archive/b/b5/20100108063328!Exploding-head.gif

[RockCoCougars]

for all this talk about getting on base, he got on base more. Trout has the advantage of OBP

 

http://images.wikia.com/uncyclopedia/images/archive/b/b5/20100108063328!Exploding-head.gif

 

Cabrera did get on base more. Roughly 20 more times than Trout, by my math. Trout had a higher percentage, but he didn't play as much.

[Baldkin]

He also made 61 more outs than Trout.

[Ennder]

Cabrera will win, can't find a single reason he should win other than 'durr her won the triple crown'. Cabrera wasn't one of the 5 best positional players in baseball this year most likely though. He arguably wasn't a top 2 player at his position if you include defense.

 

It still isn't a huge deal to me since he had a season worthy of an MVP so hard to be too upset.

[buckeyesteve]

I thought before hearing any of the talking heads on tv, that Cabrera was a lock for MVP. Then I hear some people say it is an old school vs new school argument.

 

It is. I'd like to see a Sportsnation type AL MVP poll with age breakdown.

 

I stated before, you can't take anything away from Trout, but it's Cabrera without a doubt for me. Let's throw RBI out of the mix. Cabrera 15 more homers, about 20 more XBH and for all this talk about getting on base, he got on base more. Trout has the advantage of OBP, SB and defense, but to me, that doesn't close the gap enough.

 

 

How about we do a poll on here somehow:

 

pick your winner Trout or Cabrera and throw in our age.

 

I'm 42 and I am on team Cabrera. Does that make me old in this context? My guess is I would be around borderline, maybe leaning old, but who knows.