2013 Bullpen

[torts]

isnt it more strain on an arm/shoulder to go from rotation to pen than pen to rotation, just in the number of games played/warmup time?

 

after last night, im sold on Parra being gone. keep Loe. keep Veras. get rid of parra please.

[FVBrewerFan]

I dunno, if we go into next seasons with a rotation of Gallardo, Estrada, Fiers, Peralta and Rogers I think the GM should probably be fired instantly. That is such a potential disaster. That is one starter that you know what to expect from and 4 complete wild cards for various reasons. We have to bring in at least one starter and make one of those 5 a depth guy.

 

I disagree. You still have Thornburg and Burgos if one of those 5 gets injured or can't get the job done. And I'm not sure what else Estrada can do to become a "known quantity." So basically we're talking about 5 young guys for 3 spots. I'll take that depth and payroll any day.

[jerichoholicninja]

I don't know how Estrada is a wild card. He's been a decent starter for almost two full years now.

[chad25]

I would be ok with the brewers going into next year with a rotation of:

Gallardo

Fiers

Peralta

Estrada

Rogers

 

Its young and potentially dangerous but as has been said, we have depth in Stinson, Thornburg, and Burgos. Keep Axford, Kintzler, Henderson and then revamp the bullpen with new guys, whether thats by signing FA's or trades.

 

The Lineup should continue to be solid and produce runs. The odds that our bullpen has ANOTHER implosion like last year is unlikely. So in my opinion, we could go young in the rotation and spend the extra money on the bullpen and extend some everyday players.

[PrinceEatMeat]

The rotation will be Gallardo, FA, Fiers, Estrada/Rogers, Peralta. I think that Estrada or Rogers could fill the long-relief/6th starter role well, so only one of them will be in the rotation. Although, I guess Peralta could start at AAA as well. I really don't see Narveson winning a rotation spot, but he could be in the bullpen. There's just too many quality, young arms that will beat him out. So really, I think we could see one guy being a long-man and then Narveson filling Parra's role.

[TURBO]

keep Loe. keep Veras. get rid of parra please.

 

There, I fixed it for you...

[Ennder]

I don't know how Estrada is a wild card. He's been a decent starter for almost two full years now.

 

It isn't just about production it is about health and innings limits as well. It is really risky to go into a season with only one starter who has ever pitched a full season in the majors. Estrada has two half seasons and probably wouldn't be able to throw much more than 165 innings.

[torts]

keep Loe. keep Veras. get rid of parra please.

 

There, I fixed it for you...

 

I dont hate Loe, I think he's a serviceable middle inning reliever. he is in his final arb year, so he'll be in line for a decent pay increase over the $4 mil line, and I think thats too much for him/brewers bullpen. Its a shame, I think. I mean, his numbers have gotten worse as the time in MKE has gone on, but he's still been a really servicable piece in the pen, someone you can count on for 60 - 70 games a year.

[StearnsFTW]

If Melvin pays Loe $4MM I will be extremely upset. I don't see any way he can do that.

[torts]

yeah, I know... had his year been similar to his last two, 50-70 games, low 3 ERA avg, I wouldnt be against it, but the fact that he's been getting scored upon more and more each year worries me a little. I wonder what his numbers would be if he would only pitch 50 games a year and not come in 70+... that 20 game difference could impact his numbers/performance a good bit.

[jerichoholicninja]

I don't know how Estrada is a wild card. He's been a decent starter for almost two full years now.

 

It isn't just about production it is about health and innings limits as well. It is really risky to go into a season with only one starter who has ever pitched a full season in the majors. Estrada has two half seasons and probably wouldn't be able to throw much more than 165 innings.

 

Estrada made 23 starts and pitched 138 innings last year. That's more than half a season. He's going on 30 so an innings limit next year shouldn't be a huge issue and I don't recall him ever being hurt as Brewer.

[TheCrew07]

He's going on 30 so an innings limit next year shouldn't be a huge issue and I don't recall him ever being hurt as Brewer.

 

Except for his first season when the team basically accused him of faking an injury to keep earning an MLB paycheck?

 

Yes young players are risky from a production standpoint but that's not a reason not to give them a chance, especially if they are ready. There's just as much risk in FA signings though for some reason certain people continue to ignore that point.

[jerichoholicninja]

 

Except for his first season when the team basically accused him of faking an injury to keep earning an MLB paycheck?

 

I don't remember this and I'm not saying it didn't happen but if he was faking then he's never been hurt right?

[bork]

 

Except for his first season when the team basically accused him of faking an injury to keep earning an MLB paycheck?

 

I don't remember this and I'm not saying it didn't happen but if he was faking then he's never been hurt right?

 

Estrada was stinking it up in the majors. Brewers tried to send him to AAA and all of a sudden, he says he's hurt. Had to keep him on the MLB DL. I think it was more Estrada hiding an injury than faking it.

[FVBrewerFan]

I vaguely remember that scenario with Estrada. He wasn't exactly air-mailing balls 18 rows into the stands like someone I could mention.

 

Anyhow, I think the first thing we need to remember is that they could have exactrly the same bullpen next year, and they don't blow 28 saves. I'm not saying changes don't need to be made. We just have to understand there was a stretch of games this year far beyond the normal curve of what you would logically expect.

 

Parra has to go. Loe has to go just because of his arby number. KRod, same story. He's not horrific, but will simply cost far more than someone who can get you similar results. Good news is, there are options. Thornburg, Burgos, Sanchez could all start the season in the bullpen. There are other guys at each level of the organization who could come up later in the year.

 

I just don't want to see a panic move, spending millions on a multi-year deal or two for bullpen arms.

[fondybrewfan]

There is no doubt that Melvin will make a "panic" move. He will sign one or two relievers for more than what we would like; just seems inevitable too me. If he stays internal next year and the bullpen implodes he might get fired. I don't think he would be willing to risk his job on some rookies with very minimal MLB experience; he will get a veteran or two and will probably overpay. We just have to hope they turn out to be Saito/Hawkins version 2011.

[chickinbrickin]

I am keeping axford, henderson, kintzler, and veras. They need a true loogy. I agree with fondly, I see Melvin overspending for sure.

[markedman5]

I thought Melvin made an interesting point about the 2012 bullpen makeup.

 

He said they got caught with too many guys with guaranteed contracts(I took that to mean with no options left) so that when they struggled they were kind of stuck. They didn't want to lose them but they couldn't send down guys like Dillard, Parra, Loe etc without exposing them to waivers.

 

 

Obviously Dillard went unclaimed but right or wrong that was their concern. I would hope that next year they will have 2 or 3 guys with options so they have more flexibility if needed.

 

Henderson fits the bill. Not sure who else does. Kintzler?

[FVBrewerFan]

Off the top of my head, these guys all fit that bill: Axford, Henderson, Kintzler, Sanchez, Burgos, DeLosantos, Manzanillo, Stinson, Scarpetta.

[JohnBriggs12]

The best lefty reliever available in FA is J.P. Howell, who's not a pure loogy, but he does get lefties out (.200 BAA vs. lefthanded hitters). There's other guys that could be available in trades, Matt Thornton being one, as Donnie Veal was outstanding down the stretch. Thornton makes $5.5 million, the going rate for a quality lefty arm.

 

Either way, they need an upgrade over Parra for sure.

[faede]

Don't ignore Jesus Sanchez. Quietly (apparently REALLY quietly), he had a 1.63 ERA between AA/AAA this year.

[chickinbrickin]

Don't ignore Jesus Sanchez. Quietly (apparently REALLY quietly), he had a 1.63 ERA between AA/AAA this year.

 

JESUS! That is pretty good.

[xisxisxis]

Either way, they need an upgrade over Parra for sure.

 

The Brewers could have open tryouts at Miller Park and likely sign a local free agent who would be an immediate upgrade over Parra. It would be nearly impossible to actively look for a worse pitcher.....

[MNBrew]

Either way, they need an upgrade over Parra for sure.

 

The Brewers could have open tryouts at Miller Park and likely sign a local free agent who would be an immediate upgrade over Parra. It would be nearly impossible to actively look for a worse pitcher.....

 

Parra has million-dollar stuff, but he has 50-cent confidence & a lousy-for-Class-A career walk rate. He should be good. But the best year he had was the year he came up from the minors & joined the rotation mid/late-year . . . and that was a LONG time ago.

 

I like the guy's ability & I really keep wanting him to do well. But it's been long enough that I'm thinking it's simply time to move on.

 

(and Kam Loe can follow him out the door -- the negatives are increasingly outweighing the positives, so it's time to move on from him, too...)

[JohnBriggs12]

I mentioned this guy in the trade forum, but Jon Rauch is a veteran I'd pursue. It's always a crap shoot building a bullpen, as guys tend to be inconsistent, but even though Rauch's ERA has fluctuated, over the last 4 seasons, his WHIP hasn't exceeded 1.346. He's also been durable averaging 65 appearances over that time. That and the fact that he's got some closing experience, makes him comparable in my mind to Salamon Torres.