Should we bring back K-Rod next year?

[HiAndTight]

Of course I expect popular opinion to be against this, BUT, we all know how one season, or even a stretch of a season for a reliever can greatly tarnish his season numbers.

 

I don't think he is going to get a job as a closer unless he wants to sign on with a team like the Astro's who'd sign him for early season and then just to ship him off to another team.

 

As good as K-Rod has been, and he's been absolutely nasty as of late, he's got all three pitches working, and there is no way he's getting 8.5 million dollars.

 

Would Brewers fans be willing to give him a 2 year 8 million dollar deal knowing full well that we have Henderson and Axford as well in the back of that bullpen? To me, he's looked like a closer again as of late. He's been our best pitcher out of the pen, and I think finishing the way he has means a lot.

 

Of course, everyone wants to blame K-Rod and Axford for the loss of this season(and they're not wrong). But that doesn't mean you compound that decision by not bringing him back because he struggled really for the first time in his career. He's been HUGE in our seemingly failed comeback attempt.

 

To me, he's looked better than Henderson OR Axford, and if you look at their salaries, if you give K-Rod 4 million for 2 years, you're still talking about spending just over 5 million for your 7th, 8th and 9th inning trio that can all be shutdown relievers.

 

 

I'd look for a veteran power arm to come in late in the bullpen as well as a Loogey. There are a lot of loogies we could try out and find out. This shouldn't be that hard. d

 

But with the up's and downs of relievers, K-Rod has been up almost all of his career before struggling for a stretch, but as of late, his change and curve have been NASTY and his control have been outstanding.

 

 

 

I feel like there is almost a knee-jerk reaction to say, "hell no, K-Rod is gone," in this discussion, but if you step back and look at the body of work and then what he's done as of late...he's been very impressive and if he wants to come back and not latch on as a closer for a terrible team next year, fine.

 

I'd also be interested in a guy like Ryan Madson on a 1 year 2.5 million dollar deal with incentives for appearances and a team option for a 2nd year at 4.5 million.

 

Of course I've longed for Grant Balfour for years now. So any of these guys along with a viable loogy are near the top of the agenda before a veteran power pitcher, or a pitcher with a reasonable chance to regain previous form(Peavy/Haren.....), a near sure bet and sell out for Greinke(my ideal move) or a #3-ish like Edwin Jackson who has been under appreciated and has been an absolute workhorse.

[jerichoholicninja]

He's still going to be looking for closer money. No way should he return next year.

[HiAndTight]

He's still going to be looking for closer money. No way should he return next year.

 

 

There's no way? So if he's willing to come back for 2 million dollars, we shouldn't consider it?

 

I doubt he's expecting anywhere near "closers," money. He MAY want to reclaim a job as a closer with a bad team, ie, Houston or a team similar.

 

He made 8.5 million last year and is coming off his worst season. I think both assumptions are faulty. If he wants 5 million over multiple years than I wouldn't consider it, but if he'd sign for 3-4 million over two years, I'd absolutely do it.

 

He's a proven reliever who's been dominant as of late as he has been much of his career, but he's not going to get closer money just as he didn't last year when he had a LOT better chance of getting it when he was rated as the 2nd best reliever on the market and didn't get any substantial multi year deals at closers money.

[fondybrewfan]

I think the possibility remains that he might come back. Krod at like $3 Million isn't as bad as Krod at $ Million +. He is still a serviceable reliever; and $3-4 Million is probably the going rate for 7th/8th inning guys.

 

Yeah he had a horrible stretch there; but he obviously still has the talent to be successful based on the last month or two. It probably wouldn't be a popular decision but I think you could do much much worse than bringing him back at a much reduced price. Krod, Henderson, and Axford isn't a bad bunch; so long as they play to there talent level.

[MNBrew]

The only thing K-Rod proved convincingly this season is that he should NOT be pitching in the closer's role.

 

No one wanted him at the deadline (or felt he was worth surrendering anyone of value in exchange for) and I can't see any way he gets "closer money" on the FA market.

[jerichoholicninja]

Unless he's coming back for peanuts I do not want him on the team. He has no control and not enough velocity to make up for it. Sure his changeup is pretty good, when he can put it within two feet of the plate. The bullpen has enough guys with very inconsistent control, it doesn't need another one.

[TURBO]

How soon we all forget just how bad he truly was this season.

 

I'm done with him.

 

I'm not sure our manager has enough sense to stop using him if he sucks like he did for the most part of this year. I want to remove all temptation and cut ties for fear of another 4 month long slump.

[DHonks]

I suggested we bring him back for somewhere between $3-5 million (I think) and got ridiculed for it. While rebuilding his value to be a closer, why not do it here. He's on a winner and it's a good baseball town.

[TooLiveBrew]

The most I'd throw K-Rod's way would be a 1 yr./$1M offer. I wouldn't want to spend any more on him, and I question whether $1M would even be a good idea.

[adambr2]

The most I'd throw K-Rod's way would be a 1 yr./$1M offer. I wouldn't want to spend any more on him, and I question whether $1M would even be a good idea.

 

Agree with this although I'd go as high as $2M. There's no way I would give him 2 yr/$8M, so if that's the market for him, no I wouldn't touch him.

[HiAndTight]

I think the possibility remains that he might come back. Krod at like $3 Million isn't as bad as Krod at $ Million +. He is still a serviceable reliever; and $3-4 Million is probably the going rate for 7th/8th inning guys.

 

Yeah he had a horrible stretch there; but he obviously still has the talent to be successful based on the last month or two. It probably wouldn't be a popular decision but I think you could do much much worse than bringing him back at a much reduced price. Krod, Henderson, and Axford isn't a bad bunch; so long as they play to there talent level.

 

Since the start of August, he's put up a line of;

2.91 ERA

22 IP

12 H

5 BB

.154/.205/.256/.461 against.

 

It's a small sample size, but aren't they all with relievers? Isn't it more about being reliable and being able to see that a guy is still capable of dominating?

 

His fastball has been pretty nasty, even at 92-93, and his curve and slider are still out pitches. I think with the volatility of a BP, having a guy like him who rebounded as well as he has, but who because of his overall numbers likely won't be given closers money(Again, I don't see him seeking it anyway).

 

I think people look at it too emotionally. Our bullpen ruined the season, so everyone has to go. But K-Rod has an entire career of success behind him, and while he's on the decline, we're not paying him, or wouldn't pay him 14 million a year to save, rather 3-4.5 to be a late inning reliever. I'd be pretty confident going into next year with Henderson, K-Rod and Axford as our late inning trio, and I'd bring back Veras. Still a cheap bullpen. Less than many teams spend on their closer alone.

 

Anyway, I think he's pitched himself back into consideration for next years bullpen by showing he's still got dominant stuff. I'm gonna go with the entirety of his career, as well as his dominance last year over a poor start to the year.

[HiAndTight]

How soon we all forget just how bad he truly was this season.

 

I'm done with him.

 

I'm not sure our manager has enough sense to stop using him if he sucks like he did for the most part of this year. I want to remove all temptation and cut ties for fear of another 4 month long slump.

 

 

How soon we forget how good he's been his entire career and remember a small sample size from a position that's chronically up and down. He however hasn't been save for the first couple months this year.

 

But while we're at it, should we cut ties with Axford? He's been worse and I'm not sure our manager has enough sense to stop using him if he sucks like he did for the most part of the year.

 

Nobody finds any correlation to the Brewers near miracle comeback to the back of the pen shoring up the last three innings for the most part?

 

It also takes a lot of pressure off the young pitchers if you can trot out 4 relievers like Veras/Henderson/K-Rod and Axford so a Peralta doesn't or isn't pushed to go 7 every night.

 

I'm using more the eye test with K-Rod. He's looked every bit as dominant as Axford during their latest couple month runs, and his season numbers again, trump Axford.

 

Now obviously Axford's financial situation is totally different, I just think the foolish and pointless mention of RR in this situation warranted such a response. I didn't see better options and it was the recipe that made this team one of the best in baseball last year as a staff. So I forgive him for giving K-Rod chances to work his way back in.

[HiAndTight]

The most I'd throw K-Rod's way would be a 1 yr./$1M offer. I wouldn't want to spend any more on him, and I question whether $1M would even be a good idea.

 

 

I think 1 million dollars a year to K-Rod would be pretty insulting, and if that's what they're going to offer, I'm sure they'd rather not offer anything than insult the guy.

 

To offer him 1 million a year when relievers without any of the history he has, nor the numbers he's put up even this year get paid substantially more would be insulting.

 

 

Obviously I'm not just looking at the numbers here, but I don't think via DVR or watching the game live I've missed one of his outings in a couple months. I can't believe people aren't more encouraged by what he's shown and his mini-comeback. And paying him little more than the Vets minimum...

[craigharmann]

My apologies to Dr. Seuss

 

I do not want KRod

He has become a fraud

Not on my team,

Not with ice cream,

Not on the mound,

Not on the ground,

Not in Milwaukee,

Waukesha or Ozaukee,

Not for a buck,

Not just for luck.

I do not want KRod!

[jerichoholicninja]

You can show me all the stats you want but just watch him. He has no idea where the ball is going. When fate puts the ball near the strikezone, he gets outs. When it doesn't, he walks everyone and then gives up a homerun. Time to move on.

[DHonks]

Don't forget that Melvin's gone on record as saying he believes in the bounceback of relievers due to normal deviations from season to season. I think it's more likely that he has an ERA in the 3's or 2's than Loe next year. If we can improve the pen, I'd like that. But I'm not sure Melvin's willing to pay the going rate for setup men which is usually 3 years $12-15 million.

[HiAndTight]

You can show me all the stats you want but just watch him. He has no idea where the ball is going. When fate puts the ball near the strikezone, he gets outs. When it doesn't, he walks everyone and then gives up a homerun. Time to move on.

 

 

Well suffice to say I strongly disagree. I think he has the best control of anyone in our BP. He usually walks guys because he's working the corners.

 

But is it fair to say then that you don't want Axford in Milwaukee? I mean if you're saying you don't want him at all because of his control, then I'm guessing you're strongly against Axford being a late inning guy for us next year as he actually has no idea where the ball is going at times and his control is much-much worse. K-Rod's issue for a period of time was his command, not his control.

 

By the way, K-Rod has 6 walks in the last two months, and his BB rate is nearly identical to what his career average has been. He also has an xFIP of 3.77.

 

So I don't think your post reflects what he's done in the last couple months for us whatsoever.

 

Axford by the way has walked more more than one hitter per inning than K-Rod.

[HiAndTight]

Don't forget that Melvin's gone on record as saying he believes in the bounceback of relievers due to normal deviations from season to season. I think it's more likely that he has an ERA in the 3's or 2's than Loe next year. If we can improve the pen, I'd like that. But I'm not sure Melvin's willing to pay the going rate for setup men which is usually 3 years $12-15 million.

 

 

I think that's a pretty common opinion among GM's. Just guessing, and I have heard Melvin say that very thing. So I think he'd gladly bring K-Rod back.

 

However I don't think they pay him as a top SU man. If it's a 3 year deal for 4-5 million, then I wouldn't want him back either.

 

But if it's a one year deal in the 4 million dollar range, maybe with an option year for 4 million and a 500K buyout so he can bring his value back up.

 

 

I guess I have contradicting opinions to some degree. I think he's regained the form that made him almost automatic last year in the 8th inning and could help the pen regain it's 2011 form. But I don't think he's worth a multi-year deal in the 4-5 million dollar range.

 

This will probably play out well into free agency. Let him gauge the market for him, let the Brewers see what's out there(and I'm still a big Grant Balfour fan). And if he doesn't get the type of deal he's looking for and wants to play on a contender, I could see him coming back. And he's been so spectacular during this stretch we've been in, I can't help but think that's closer to the K-Rod than the one who was leaving the fastball up earlier in the season, and couldn't get his curve over.

[DHonks]

HiandTight, I sort of agree. I think K-Rod hopefully will analyze this season and realize the significance of getting ahead in the count. Sometimes he got too slider friendly and fell behind 3-0 before serving up homers. I think he can learn from this year. If he likes Milwaukee, I wouldn't mind bringing him back.

[jerichoholicninja]

You can show me all the stats you want but just watch him. He has no idea where the ball is going. When fate puts the ball near the strikezone, he gets outs. When it doesn't, he walks everyone and then gives up a homerun. Time to move on.

 

 

Well suffice to say I strongly disagree. I think he has the best control of anyone in our BP. He usually walks guys because he's working the corners.

 

But is it fair to say then that you don't want Axford in Milwaukee? I mean if you're saying you don't want him at all because of his control, then I'm guessing you're strongly against Axford being a late inning guy for us next year as he actually has no idea where the ball is going at times and his control is much-much worse. K-Rod's issue for a period of time was his command, not his control.

 

By the way, K-Rod has 6 walks in the last two months, and his BB rate is nearly identical to what his career average has been. He also has an xFIP of 3.77.

 

So I don't think your post reflects what he's done in the last couple months for us whatsoever.

 

Axford by the way has walked more more than one hitter per inning than K-Rod.

 

Yes. I would love to see Axford traded. He's way too inconsistent with his control. I'm sick of bullpen's full of "stuff" guys. Give me a bullpen full of control guys.

[narwhalattack]

You can show me all the stats you want but just watch him. He has no idea where the ball is going. When fate puts the ball near the strikezone, he gets outs. When it doesn't, he walks everyone and then gives up a homerun. Time to move on.

 

 

Well suffice to say I strongly disagree. I think he has the best control of anyone in our BP. He usually walks guys because he's working the corners.

 

But is it fair to say then that you don't want Axford in Milwaukee? I mean if you're saying you don't want him at all because of his control, then I'm guessing you're strongly against Axford being a late inning guy for us next year as he actually has no idea where the ball is going at times and his control is much-much worse. K-Rod's issue for a period of time was his command, not his control.

 

By the way, K-Rod has 6 walks in the last two months, and his BB rate is nearly identical to what his career average has been. He also has an xFIP of 3.77.

 

So I don't think your post reflects what he's done in the last couple months for us whatsoever.

 

Axford by the way has walked more more than one hitter per inning than K-Rod.

 

Yes. I would love to see Axford traded. He's way too inconsistent with his control. I'm sick of bullpen's full of "stuff" guys. Give me a bullpen full of control guys.

 

 

So you'd rather have a bullpen full of Livans?

[jerichoholicninja]

 

So you'd rather have a bullpen full of Livans?

 

Livan doesn't have stuff or control. He's a body.

 

I'm sick of seeing bullpen's full of Manny Para's. Guys who throw hard and have a decent breaking ball but can't consistently put it within a foot of the plate.

[brewmann04]

Parra and Loe need to be replaced in the 2013 Bullpen.

[logan82]

 

So you'd rather have a bullpen full of Livans?

 

Livan doesn't have stuff or control. He's a body.

 

I'm sick of seeing bullpen's full of Manny Para's. Guys who throw hard and have a decent breaking ball but can't consistently put it within a foot of the plate.

Those guys you are talking about are called "starters."

[DHonks]

Parra and Loe aren't the problem. They're 6th or 7th inning relievers. Henderson and Axford are late inning relievers. We could use 1-2 more solid relievers. Kinzler looks good. Stetter, Wooten, Sanchez, and others should battle it out. If we can can package Parra for something, that might be a good option.