2012-09-27 Brewers (Peralta) at Reds (Latos), 11:35 AM CDT [Brewers lose, 2-1]

[TURBO]

someone said it earlier, but this truly is a fitting end to our season...

 

what an absolute bummer.

[lukevan]

Win out and the Cards could go 2-4. It's not over over but this one hoits.

[TURBO]

What will really suck is if we end up 1 measley game behind the Cards on October 3rd...

[pitchleague]

okay, this really sucks for me. I'm in supervising the detention room and turn on gameday and see K-Rod pitch well. So, I was surprised when they brought Henderson in but happy to see him work without an issue. I turn it off after that because it was time for me to leave and go to lunch.

 

I tell my wife that the Brewers had won 1-0! So excited!

 

Then a half hour later, I come here to see reaction and see the post in the "2nd Half Optimism" thread by torts and say, "What?!?!?"

 

And sure enough, they had lost 2-1.

 

I'm sitting there staring at the screen. "Gameday said Henderson struck out the last guy! Did he reach on a wild pitch or something?"

 

And then I look again and see it.

 

I had assumed K-Rod was in the 8th and Henderson in the 9th and the game was over. What a fool I am.

 

Crushing to read this, folks, just crushing.

[SoCal Brew Crew Fan]

Just win out and maybe the same thing happens to the Cards. I'd love a one game playoff in St. Louis with a chance to celebrate on their field.

 

Such a valiant effort by these guys lately...just left no room for error.

[Outlander]

Listening to the post game and interesting that Maldonado has caught 7/9 blown saves by Axford. I don't know if it means anything but maybe he works better with Lucroy kind of like how Wolf works better without Lucroy.

[rluzinski]

To be fair, this loss could not have lowered the playoff odds by more than 4%, so let's not pretend the season was lost today. That said, any dream of a miraculous come back probably did.

[xisxisxis]

Another really nice start from Peralta. I can't express in words my desire to never see 90% of the bullpen in a brewers uniform again.....

[StearnsFTW]

Another really nice start from Peralta. I can't express in words my desire to never see 90% of the bullpen in a brewers uniform again.....

 

Yep. Henderson, Axford and maybe Kintzler. That's the list for me. You can have the rest of 'em.

[FullMetalCardigan]

Another really nice start from Peralta. I can't express in words my desire to never see 90% of the bullpen in a brewers uniform again.....

 

Yep. Henderson, Axford and maybe Kintzler. That's the list for me. You can have the rest of 'em.

 

Maybe I'm over-reacting but I don't want Axford back either. I'm tired of feeling what I did today and tired of white knucklin' it with him on the saves he does convert. He's a nice enough guy and I appreciate his "never say die" attitude but this is a performance business and he isn't performing. He's a fastball pitcher than can occasionally throw a curve or slider for a strike. That isn't going to get it done. I think we caught lightning in a bottle with him last year but he's too erratic for a position with a very narrow margin for error.

[TURBO]

Everyone seems to want to give Axford a pass...

 

He was horrible, just like the rest, and possibly the worst of them all.

 

Bring Henderson back, and Kintzler has earned a look. DUMP the rest!

[TooLiveBrew]

Sell low on a guy with an upper 90s heater, along with two solid breaking pitches, who's under team salary control through 2016 because he's had one bad season after two dominant ones? While we're at it, let's fire up that time machine & DFA Hart & Weeks for nothing when folks were calling for that, too.

 

RPs are players whose production jumps all over the place from year to year (aside from the elite guys like Mo Rivera). People need to calm down about Axford. He's got dominant stuff & has shown the ability to do the job at the MLB level. Obviously he's stunk in 2012, but to call for him to get dumped is nothing but fan overreaction.

[StearnsFTW]

Another really nice start from Peralta. I can't express in words my desire to never see 90% of the bullpen in a brewers uniform again.....

 

Yep. Henderson, Axford and maybe Kintzler. That's the list for me. You can have the rest of 'em.

 

Maybe I'm over-reacting but I don't want Axford back either. I'm tired of feeling what I did today and tired of white knucklin' it with him on the saves he does convert. He's a nice enough guy and I appreciate his "never say die" attitude but this is a performance business and he isn't performing. He's a fastball pitcher than can occasionally throw a curve or slider for a strike. That isn't going to get it done. I think we caught lightning in a bottle with him last year but he's too erratic for a position with a very narrow margin for error.

 

I don't necessarily want him at closer, but I'd keep him in the pen for sure. He's too good to just get rid of when he's on.

[FullMetalCardigan]

Sell low on a guy with an upper 90s heater, along with two solid breaking pitches, who's under team salary control through 2016 because he's had one bad season after two dominant ones?

 

"Two solid breaking pitches" is debatable. If he can't throw a curve for a strike, or hangs them high in the zone like the volleyball he served up on the game winning triple today, batters are going to simply lock in on his fastball.

 

While we're at it, let's fire up that time machine & DFA Hart & Weeks for nothing when folks were calling for that, too.

 

I get the point you're making. I personally never argued for dumping Hart and Weeks but know that others have. FWIW, injuries have played a role with those two guys whereas there's nothing physically wrong with Ax I'm aware of.

 

RPs are players whose production jumps all over the place from year to year (aside from the elite guys like Mo Rivera). People need to calm down about Axford. He's got dominant stuff & has shown the ability to do the job at the MLB level. Obviously he's stunk in 2012, but to call for him to get dumped is nothing but fan overreaction.

 

I'm taking a few deep breaths and trying to be level headed here but his ERA is about double what it was last year and he leads the league (edit: leads the majors) in blown saves. At the very least, I want someone else competing for the closer role next year because there's no guarantee whatsoever we'll be getting the Ax of 2011.

[chickinbrickin]

Sell low on a guy with an upper 90s heater, along with two solid breaking pitches.quote]

 

While I agree with you that he should not be dumped I feel like he no longer has any business closing games. Axford is basically a two pitch pitcher with a plus fastball and a plus curve. Problem is this entire year he lost the ability to throw that plus curve for strike so he has become a fastball only pitcher.

 

Sometimes guys just lose the feel for a pitch. Sometimes for an inning and sometimes forever. Axford may have become a victim of the later, which hope isn't the case.

 

He has a spot in the Brewers pen next year for sure, but I'm not too interested in having him close games any time soon.

[TURBO]

I over-reacted when I said to dump Axford, the emotion of today's game was a lot to handle for me.

 

That being said, today's game brought back the flood of crappy-bad feelings that we had for the most part of the season, which is why I thought at the time we should just dump him.

 

So, now that clear heads prevail, I don't think we should out and out dump him from the roster, but annointing him as our closer for 2013 is a mistake. Competition never hurt anyone, make the 2013 closer position open for the taking and see what happens.

 

I don't like the idea of Axford going into the season as our closer, if anything, he should have to earn it back, but the way RR does things, I'm pretty sure Ax will be the 9th inning guy until he blows another 4 or 5 to start the season next year...

[sdcheezhd]

Listening to the post game and interesting that Maldonado has caught 7/9 blown saves by Axford. I don't know if it means anything but maybe he works better with Lucroy kind of like how Wolf works better without Lucroy.

 

Wow, my brother and I were wondering why Luc didn't hit for Maldonado even without seeing this.

[TooLiveBrew]

Sell low on a guy with an upper 90s heater, along with two solid breaking pitches.

 

While I agree with you that he should not be dumped I feel like he no longer has any business closing games. Axford is basically a two pitch pitcher with a plus fastball and a plus curve. Problem is this entire year he lost the ability to throw that plus curve for strike so he has become a fastball only pitcher.

 

Sometimes guys just lose the feel for a pitch. Sometimes for an inning and sometimes forever. Axford may have become a victim of the later, which hope isn't the case.

 

He has a spot in the Brewers pen next year for sure, but I'm not too interested in having him close games any time soon.

Just quoting your post to respond to you, FMC, & turbo...

 

I was only responding to the claim that Ax should be dumped. Didn't say that I want to see him handed any kind of specific job. Although I do think he's going to bounce back next season & both easily win and retain the closer role.

 

Also, I disagree that he's only a two-pitch pitcher -- he seems to have turned more to his formerly-rarely-used slider this season as he's struggled so much with his CB command. I would argue he's a three-pitch reliever, with two of them (FB, CB) being plus pitches and one of them (SL) being just so-so. I think that's a pretty huge arsenal to work with, going forward, for a guy with the kind of FB velocity that Axford has. His profile is exactly what I'd want Melvin to be looking for on the FA and/or trade market to help shore up the 'pen heading into 2013.

 

One more specific point I wanted to respond to -

"Two solid breaking pitches" is debatable. If he can't throw a curve for a strike, or hangs them high in the zone like the volleyball he served up on the game winning triple today, batters are going to simply lock in on his fastball.

Imo there's a distinction between a pitch being a good or average pitch on its own, and the pitcher's current/recent ability to command said pitch. I don't mean to be pedantic, but I still think Ax has a good CB even though I completely agree that he's lost the feel for it for most of this season.

 

One more thing to factor in is that Axford and his wife welcomed a new baby into the world this season. Maybe that has nothing to do with anything, but there's always far more possible causes for dips in player production than I think we as fans either recognize or want to admit.

[TooLiveBrew]

I over-reacted when I said to dump Axford, the emotion of today's game was a lot to handle for me.

 

That being said, today's game brought back the flood of crappy-bad feelings that we had for the most part of the season, which is why I thought at the time we should just dump him.

 

So, now that clear heads prevail, I don't think we should out and out dump him from the roster, but annointing him as our closer for 2013 is a mistake. Competition never hurt anyone, make the 2013 closer position open for the taking and see what happens.

 

I don't like the idea of Axford going into the season as our closer, if anything, he should have to earn it back, but the way RR does things, I'm pretty sure Ax will be the 9th inning guy until he blows another 4 or 5 to start the season next year...

I also wanted to specifically add that I thought it was cool of you to make this follow-up post. It was fairly easy to tell that you got caught up in the emotions today after the excruciating loss, and perhaps I shouldn't have responded at all given that context. I totally get why you were so frustrated.

[hawing]

Listening to the post game and interesting that Maldonado has caught 7/9 blown saves by Axford. I don't know if it means anything but maybe he works better with Lucroy kind of like how Wolf works better without Lucroy.

The Ax-Luc combination certainly seemed effective last year, but I'd want to know* how many of John's blown saves took place during Jonathan's DL stint.

 

*I don't really want to be reminded of the dates. I beheld my share of them in person, if not more than my share.

[MNBrew]

Here's what I see about Axford:

 

- Way too many walks, mainly because he hasn't been able to throw the curve for strikes with much consistency (at times, even at all, let alone with any semblance of consistency).

- Didn't Axford just convert like 13 straight save opps before today? While some of his other numbers have stunk, the fact is that over April, May, August, & September, he only blew 3 saves including the one today. It's his 7-for-13 months of June & July where he was beyond putrid & seemed to do little right.

- Today's "reversion" to that awful form is what has our collective sky falling about his ability, value, & worth to the future of this team.

 

I want him in next year's bullpen. And he sure needs to regain his command. The legitimately "lousy" control he's had this year has to improve notably & do so with consistency. . . . And at this point I'm also rather glad the long-term contract talks never reached a point of closure.