Moving Yo up... Moving Marcum out

[rickh150]

If the Brewers skip Marco's start on Tues., or just push him back, Gallardo is set up to pitch on the last day of season on regular rest.

I really like this idea for two reasons. One, we get our best pitcher another start on short rest. Also, if the Brewers have the WC wrapped up, Yo can pitch the WC one game playoff in Atlanta.

 

I have also seen enough of Marcum. He hasn't been good. His pace is lousy; he reminds me of what he was doing in the postseason... very unsure of himself. Thornburg gets the nod for me. We gave Marcum more than enough rope to hang us last season; this year, someone else gets an opportunity.

[HiAndTight]

I agree with moving Marcum out, but I don't see it happening. Thornburg hasn't started in how many weeks now, and I doubt the Brewers are going to take TT and throw him into the fire.

 

If they had a couple weeks ago, that would have been perfect. The point was to get a look at these guys, and the Brewers have gone off and gotten themselves back in the playoff race, but they're still OBVIOUSLY a long shot. So you might as well start Thornburg, have an 80-85 pitch limit on him and then use our bullpen to cover the last 4 or 5 innings. Some may say with the young arms we've got that would put too much pressure on the pen, but you're only getting that out of Marcum now, and you're doing it while giving up 4ER's pretty much every outing.

 

I also think it's nearly impossible for us to have the WC "wrapped up."

 

At 5 games back, I was happy just to be in the picture, at 2-3 games back with 18 to go, I'll be thrilled to have a CHANCE the last week of the season. But we do have 7 games left with Washington and Cincy and the Cards have a cupcake schedule which is why the Dodgers need to win today...they have a much tougher schedule.

[brewmann04]

I think the crew will weed out the weak pitchers. but have to be happy with the young arms stepping up.

[reillymcshane]

The team is moving Gallardo up to pitch on Tuesday so that he'll be able to pitch the last day of the season - if necessary.

 

From JSonline:

 

Gallardo moves up: The only change Roenicke made to the rotation was moving Yovani Gallardo ahead of Marco Estrada to pitch Tuesday in Pittsburgh.

 

That change gives Gallardo one more start on the final day of the season, should the Brewers need to win that day to get into the playoffs.

 

"We're trying to get him out there as often as we can," Roenicke said of Gallardo, who has won his last seven decisions. "He's been our most consistent pitcher."

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/brewers/painful-test-run-for-brewers-hart-sl6sjon-169976916.html

 

Same article says Marcum won't be coming out of the rotation.

[HiAndTight]

I think the crew will weed out the weak pitchers. but have to be happy with the young arms stepping up.

 

 

Meaning? In terms of this year? Or they'll just weed out the weak pitchers moving forward?

[brewmann04]

actually both

[moofnelson]

If Marcum is in the Brewer's starting rotation next year, I going to ...?

[adambr2]

I think we can forget about offering Marcum a qualifying offer at this point.

 

So we're going to lose him for nothing, but I don't want him back unless a big discount is in line.

[jjgott]

Tangent -- Just realized Marcum will be starting the game I'm going to in DC. Blech.

 

Yeah I don't feel too good about offering Marcum a QO either. Not saying the injury might still be hampering him but with his stuff, it might not be too good for him going forward. I guess I'd be ok with offering him a 1 year deal with incentives but I'm not sure if he'd take that.

[TURBO]

Time to turn the page...

 

Injury may still be an issue, but a soft tossing old guy has no place in our future plans.

 

Time to cut the ties, and move forward.

[HiAndTight]

actually both

 

 

Well, I think it's obvious they're going to weed out the weak arms moving forward. That's just...being a young player. It's not like the NFL where Harrell is going to get another chance because he was a 1st round pick, or hell, even a 5th round pick like Terrell Manning who made the team despite showing absolutely nothing to the coaches and on his talent alone(that and the fact that he had a hellacious virus or whatever it was that made him drop 25 pounds and he didn't miss a single practice). Plus we took a guy who was projected to be a 1st round pick going into his last year at NC State, dropped to the 5th after breaking an ankle and actually traded up for him.

 

But in baseball, those rules just don't apply the same. Sure, a power pitcher will get more looks than a Fiers, but eventually if you're getting guys out at the rate a Hiram Bugros is(and I finally watched quite a bit of video on him, and he reminds me a great deal of Fiers, though it's hard to tell how good his fastball was because he was blowing it by minor leagues as opposed to big leaguers..but he spotted it exceptionally.

 

So yeah, eventually I have no doubt they'll weed out the lesser pitchers. Everyone does.

 

My issue is with RIGHT NOW. Hey, we're there. We're in a legit playoff race and we're still throwing out Marcum for some totally unknown reason. Again, I get Thornburg hasn't thrown, but if the plan was for him to get some starts, and they're comfortable using him out of the pen, give HIM the start. Again, you might only get 4 innings, 5 if you're lucky because above all you want to play it VERY safe, but those 4-5 could very well be better than Marcum, and we can't afford to have Marcum blow 2 more games out of these 10 road games, or god forbid one of the final 6 that we basically HAVE to sweep in order to get in.

 

We're 2.5 back, already a long shot, but we've jumped most of the teams, the Dodgers have a schedule that makes me believe they're not a threat IF we play exceptionally well given their injuries. The Cards on the other hand would scare me if they where within 4 games of us with their schedule. We've got 10 vs the Pirates/4-Nats/Reds and they have the next 9 vs the Astros/Cubs/Astros, the two worst teams in the NL, and the Astro's are literally one of the worst teams I've ever seen.

 

So to my way of thinking, they've got the evidence. He burned us last year, he's not pitching well after being out a couple months, Thornburg at least has a fastball that he can make a mistake with and get away with it, and then we can bring in the pen which has been pitching great and have a punchers chance. But 2 almost guaranteed losses by Marcum followed by what's bound to be at BEST 1 additional loss and likely 2 in a near best case scenario over the next 9 and we're done.

 

So weed out the weak now. Hell, I'd honest to god rather start Livan instead of Marcum right now. Next year, healthy, different story. But not now. And frankly, against aggressive teams like the Nats, Livan could have one of those inexplicable games where he shuts a team down with his 14 different pitches that are all just junk. Certainly done it before.

[HiAndTight]

If Marcum is in the Brewer's starting rotation next year, I going to ...?

 

 

I'M going to be either thrilled or extremely disappointed. You're not providing enough facts.

 

If Marcum is in the Brewers rotation next year given the fact that we're looking at the potential of as many as 8-9 1st or 2nd year guys potentially starting games next year(high end, but could be even more depending on development) on a cheap deal, I think that'd be great, because a guy who throws as bad of a fastball as he does and still has as much success as he has knows how to pitch, and he by all accounts is a good guy who attacks hitters. And some may think it's overrated, but I think he'd be a great guy for young guys to listen to. Think about the possibilities of getting Jimmy Nelson, Tyler Thornburg, Peralta, Rogers, Burgos, Fiers, Jungman, Bradley, maybe Scarpetta among many others to learn from him and use his approach to pitching with much better stuff.

 

 

But if we're paying 10 million for him, that's 10 million that you're paying for a really minimal upgrade if any over another young pitcher, or hell, a Claudio Vargas who really isn't THAT BAD. I'd rather pay Vargas 1 million than Marcum 10. Everyone knows what I think the Brewers are capable of spending, but that doesn't mean just because I think they COULD spend X-amount of dollars that they should. Overpaying for pitching hurts teams like the Yankees. So what's it going to do to us.

[HiAndTight]

I think we can forget about offering Marcum a qualifying offer at this point.

 

So we're going to lose him for nothing, but I don't want him back unless a big discount is in line.

 

 

Absolutely. I think it was still possible on the table as late as maybe 2-3 weeks after his shoulder soreness(or elbow..whatever). But after two years in a row of soreness in his throwing arm and a couple months on the DL, 13 million or thereabouts was off the table long ago in my opinion.

 

We get that additional draft pick now for being a small market team. That's enough, we don't need to risk money that could be going to extending someone or signing a legit FA.

 

I still want the same parameters for FA's this year though. Either elite players and spend to get them, or short term players that fill a particular need. Loogy, Utility IF'er(though that maybe covered, just an example) maybe SU man like Balfour.

[monty57]

The chance of Marcum getting a $13MM qualifying offer is gone, but the chance that he will sign a one-year, low base, incentive-laden deal has to be pretty good.

 

If we could sign him to that type of deal, allowing us to start the season with Yo, Fiers, Marcum, Estrada, Rogers/Peralta, I'd be for it. Since it's a low base, incentive-laden deal, it wouldn't hurt to dump him if he performs poorly or gets hurt, and it would be great if he performed well. It may also help us limit Rogers/Peralta's innings (assuming they won't be able to pitch a full season next year).

 

As to this year, it sure doesn't appear that Marcum is 100% healthy. If his balky elbow is sore, I wish he'd tell the training staff, as he'd be better off on the shelf than on the mound giving up a run an inning.