Doug Melvin interview on Bill Michaels show this afternoon

[thebruce44]

He only has half a seasons worth of PA, but his PA have been horrible relative to his position/other abilities (.299 wOBA?).

 

And those half a season of PAs have been spread out too thin to say he has been horrible.

 

The rule for 1B prospects is that to be considered remotely legitimate they have to absolutely crush the ball at every level, because it is such an offense-reliant position. Gamel has not done that. He is never going to do that.

 

Wait, what? Yes he has.

 

Even his dream-case projections are to be a Lyle Overbay-type, average-to-below-average second division starter.

 

With the rest of our lineup, I'd gladly take an Overbay-type (though I believe Mat's upside is higher than that). That's basically what Hart has provided us with this year, but Gamel could give us that for 1/20th the cost.

[thebruce44]

1) The Brewers have $36M coming off the books next year in Greinke, Izturis, Loe, K-Rod, Veras, and (likely) Wolf. If you add Marcum and Morgan to that it makes $46M. They have $11.5M in raises coming, and no one eligible for arby is having anywhere remotely close to a good season and deserving of a significant raise. Payroll is not going to be an issue next year, so we can take that out of the argument for trading Hart.

 

B) While Hart's offensive value decreases at 1B, his defensive value increases at 1B. Remember, he was moved off of 1B because of Fielder. He has shown to be a very good defensive 1B, better than Gamel. Maybe Gamel can learn RF in one spring training... coming off of knee surgery, I'm not sure that's possible. Is he eligible for the AFL, and if so, will he be healthy enough to start learning RF in the AFL?

 

1)Nobody knows what their bottom line for payroll will be. I can't stand the arguments that "payroll wont be an issue" or that "what would we spend that money on anyway." There is always a way that money can be used for future talent. Take on salary in the short term to get a prospect in a trade. Spend it on player development (latin signing bonuses). Now some draft picks can be traded so buy an extra for next year.

 

2)How can you possibly say Hart is a better defensive 1B than Gamel at this point?

[brewmann04]

The Brewers have to let Wolf go not worth the Money and it could be used elsewhere.I think Hart stays @1st base he done a good job and has nice power #.

[Dragonbait]

How can you possibly say Hart is a better defensive 1B than Gamel at this point?

 

Hart has played 1st base. Was drafted as a 1st baseman. And has the height and reach that really helps.

He's the more natural 1st baseman.

 

Aside from that, I cant say he's better defensively, but I'm not worried about Hart's defense at 1st.

[fondybrewfan]

Gamel may turn out to be a good MLB player; but once again the only role I see for him right now is at a bench spot. Aoki is pretty solidified in RF; Braun in LF, and Hart at 1B. The only scenario where he could have a meaningful role in 2013 is if either Aoki or Hart are traded and I just don't that happening. Perhaps Hart is let go after the 2013 season or traded midseason; but it seems like Hunter Morris will be more than capable stepping in at that time and is younger than Gamel, has more service time, will be cheaper, and isn't coming off a major knee injury. Plus he would be a power lefty bat the DM surely would love to have. I really think DM and RR have moved on from Gamel at this point. It does suck because he has minimal trade value at this point but stashing him in AAA and leaving Morris in AA doesn't make any sense in 2013 either. Maybe he still has some trade value based on his potential but teams aren't going to give up much for a 27 year old that has had no MLB success and is coming off a major injury. Maybe Jack Z would still like him.

 

I was at one time fascinated by Mat Gamel as well; but my new fascination is Morris and I don't think there is anything Gamel can do that Morris can't except walk more

[torts]

cant we ask the Astro's if we can go to the AL instead and just solve all our problems and put Hart as the DH?

[torts]

also, its funny Texas has two AMERICAN league teams now

[TooLiveBrew]

I'm curious, if Gamel had posted about an .825 OPS over roughly 1,000 PAs, would the doubters feel like he'd have earned the all-important label of "Proven"?

[monty57]

As far as what you may get in a trade, I look at the Pence deal to get a feel on it. To me, that return was pretty underwhelming, and you will probably get less for Hart in the off season and certainly less during the season next year.

 

I don't necessarily think that's true. Everyone knew the Phillies needed to purge salary after signing Hamels, and that will bring out all kinds of lowball offers. Pence going on the market this season probably hurt the market for Hart at the deadline, but it was a one-time thing that shouldn't affect his value this offseason. I do think his value will go down significantly if we wait until next trade deadline, because then the receiving team will not get a comp pick for him. If we trade him this offseason, I think one season of Hart plus a comp pick should be worth a Segura-level prospect. If that's the case, I would certainly make the trade and let Gamel man first.

 

If all we can get in trade for Hart is a lump of coal, then of course we don't trade him. In that event, I would still hang onto Gamel, as Gamel as a bench bat/backup has more value to the Brewers than he would probably get for them in trade. If any of Hart, Braun or Aoki gets hurt, Gamel is the first guy to step in (at 1B while Hart moves to corner OF if Braun or Aoki are hurt). So, as the primary LH hitter off the bench and primary backup at essentially three positions, he should see a fair share of PAs. In this scenario, I still wouldn't want the Brewers to extend Hart, as the Brewers can only afford so many eight figure salaries at any given time, and I don't think I'd use one of them for a mid-30's Corey Hart when we have plenty of options who will play the position for league minimum.

 

I still don't get the "if we trade Hart, we're giving up on the season" rhetoric. It sounds to me like the "if we lose {insert Greinke, Fielder, Sabathia} we are never going to compete" cries I've heard over and over again. Who knows, maybe we trade Hart for a starting pitcher so we don't have to spend a lot of money on a B-level free agent. There are plenty of scenarios where the Brewers will continue on as a franchise without Hart on the roster. I think we're better off with Segura, Hellweg, Pena and $25MM/year in salary to spend then we'd have been by extending Greinke, and I think we'd be better off with a good prospect and $15MM/year in salary to spend then we'd be by extending Hart.

[slappzilla]

To me, trading Corey Hart makes the most sense. We are loaded with guys who can play first base and corner outfield. You have Gamel, Davis, Aoki, Braun, Gindl, and Morris. That's 6 guys for three positions. Why pay Corey Hart $15 million a year, which essentially leaves 5 guys for one spot because obviously Braun and Hart both play every day. Starting in 2014, you then have 3 mid to high ceiling prospects in Davis, Gindl, Morris (plus Aoki if you choose to extend him AND Mat Gamel) competing for one spot. And you have $15 million less to spend on other areas of need. All this to give a 32 year old career .276 hitter $13-$15 million a year? I think given time and ample opportunity all three of Morris, Davis and Gamel can hit .275 with 20 HRs. And at 1/20th the cost.

I think this sums it up well.

 

Why can't Gamel play 3B? He did for awhile in Nashville, did he not? Was he terrible? I honestly don't understand why I've seen so many people say Gamel can't play 3B or RF (move Aoki to CF if Gamel is in RF). I thought Gamel played some OF in Nashville too? I maybe wrong on that though. I think Gamel could be valuable due to the fact that he's played different positions, no?

 

Again, if Gamel stinks, he becomes a bench bat and the road is paved for Morris. It just seems to make too much sense to trade Hart.

[Invader3K]

Yes, Gamel was very bad at 3b. Almost as bad as Braun was.

[TooLiveBrew]

Yes, Gamel was very bad at 3b. Almost as bad as Braun was.

That's simply not true. Only because Braun was so, so, so bad, though.

[monty57]

also, its funny Texas has two AMERICAN league teams now

 

I don't get it. Texas is in America.

[Invader3K]

Not to go way off topic, but I'm really glad Houston is moving to the AL next year. They'll have a natural rival with the Rangers and we'll no longer be in a dumb six team division.

[MNBrew]

I still don't get why folks wouldn't at least want Gamel on the bench next year if he doesn't have a starting position going into the year. Why in the world does it have to be an all-or-nothing thing? I LOVE the idea of him on the bench or as a platoon option IF he doesn't earn a starting spot.

 

Plain & simple, the quality of your DEPTH matters. There's almost no way the Brewers go through the whole year without 1 or more starting position players losing time to injury. Shoot, what if it's Hart who blows out a knee and does so in Spring Training and will miss the whole season? Gamel could well be the starting 1B again, and long before they even break camp. . . . unless those of you who want him moved get the satisfaction of seeing him traded (as damaged goods sold low) over the winter . . . but then what after an injury and we lack depth again (like at SS this year)?

 

I'd much rather have Gamel as the ready replacement for injuries at 1B, RF, or LF than another Travis Ishikawa or Brooks Conrad or Wes Helms or some other ham-and-egger like those guys. Heck, while his throws are about as consistently accurate as scud missiles, I'd even be okay with him holding down the fort for a couple days at 3B if need be (though not much more than that). . . . So given those possible scenarios, at least in a vacuum, to me there's absolutely no reason to feel like the Brewers HAVE to trade him.

[logan82]

He hasn't missed anywhere near as much time as Gamel, but Hart hasn't exactly been the healthiest guy the last few years.

[RockCoCougars]

I think that Hart has been pretty durable over his career. As far as I can remember, he only missed a that stint at the beginning of last season, and that one year he missed awhile due to getting an appendectomy. Has he even missed a game this season? I'd actually say that he's been probably the most durable Brewer full time position player on the roster as it stands (granted with this MASH unit, that's not saying too much, but still).

[logan82]

Sure he didn't miss actual games this year but he did last year and had a knee problem this year. All I am saying is that having somebody to back him up wouldn't be a bad idea.

[RockCoCougars]

Sure he didn't miss actual games this year but he did last year and had a knee problem this year. All I am saying is that having somebody to back him up wouldn't be a bad idea.

 

Agreed. I'm all for keeping Gamel on the roster. There's no reason that he can't be a bench guy.

[splitterpfj]

Depth, for lack of a better word, is good, depth is right...depth works.

[logan82]

Braun has been nicked up every single year also. I always worry he will finally get hurt bad enough to be out for a while.

[LouisEly]

How can you possibly say Hart is a better defensive 1B than Gamel at this point?

 

Have you ever heard RRR glow about Gamel's ability at 1B anywhere near what he has said about Hart at 1B? IIRC, RRR called Hart a "game changer" at 1B, and didn't Melvin or RRR say that Hart is the leader for the 1B job next year? Isn't that what started this whole Gamel debate?

 

So it isn't me that is saying it... it is RRR and Melvin. And counting minor league games, Hart has played more games at 1B in his career than Gamel. Roughly 100 more by my count, so he has more experience there as well.

[slappzilla]

Yeah, RRR and Melvin cannot stop talking about how great Hart is at 1B. Between the two of them, anytime Hart's name is brought up the first thing they say is how "unbelievable" he's been at 1B.

[jjgott]

One thing that just dawned on me is the fact that we'll be playing interleague series all season long starting next year. It will be crucial to have someone that can shift over and play DH every once and a while. Definitely would prefer to have someone like Gamel manning that role than a Ishikawa or Conrad type.

[slappzilla]

How many interleague games are there next year vs this year?