Brewers position prospects continue to impress...

[HiAndTight]

Now it's been just a week, but our future game double play combo looks exceptionally well.

 

The Huntsville team may not have the look of the LaPorta, Brantley, Salome group a few years ago, but I think with our current big league club, these guys may fit in even better. Morris could be a legit 1st basemen at the big league level.

 

Segura is hitting .455 and appears to be everything advertised. Hitting .455, 2 SB's, hitting for doubles. He's our top prospect now and could easily be our starting SS for the next 10 or so years.

Gennett just keeps hitting his way up the organizational chain. Always been a fan of mine, but he just keeps getting the most out of his abilities.

Hunter Morris is breaking records at AA hitting. .922 OPS, 20 HR's, .310 BA, getting his OBP up into the mid .360's...depending on if we could get Greinke back, Morris just may be taking over 1st base for Corey Hart next year(though I implore the Brewers to give Gamel another chance less we watch him hit .300/.365/.450 while playing stellar D at 1st base. Maybe a utility role for him for another year would be ideal for the short term and then have him take over 1st base, OR we could move Gamel to RF sell high on Aoki. I'm determined to give Gomez a full year in CF as I truly believe he's a game changer. His talent isn't paralleled by anyone in the organization. And Aoki could really help a team next year. Maybe around the break.

 

This is forgetting about our SS turned CF'er in Josh Prince who's thriving in his first role in AA wit a .365 OPB and playing fantastic defense. With his speed and with Segura's speed. we should be able to take the extra base at will in the future.

 

And then there is Lee Haydel the guy who just keeps hitting .300+ and turning a single into a double. I'm curious if he could be a #5 OF in the future. He's got the D, can hit for average and can snag a base at aill, or if he's just a guy destined to get a few AB's at the big league level in the future without really sticking.

 

Still, with Morris, a legit 1st basemen in the future, Gennett, proving to be a poor man' Pedroia, but that's still pretty impressive, and then Segura, a SS who was the centerpiece in the Greinke trade.

 

And then the darkhorse in Kentrail Davis a guy I believe is destined to improve as he moves up through the system.

 

 

 

And this is just AA....these guys, unlike the former group of prospects don't have to shoulder the weight themselves.

 

 

Throw in a plethora of talent at the other levels'

Khris Davis just absolutely destroying the ball in AAA and possibly forcing Braun over to RF. But he's hitting as well as just about any other prospect we've had in some time.

Logan Schafer still has that question mark. Second team starter, or legit CF prospect who can chase 'em down, hit for average and hit for power.

Caleb Gindl and Taylor Green are still two guys I believe in.

 

HiA-Always tough to tell here, but we have some talent there. Jason Rogers is the type of guy that's putting up numbers, but old for his age and with that sea breeze hard to get any read on their numbers.

 

LoA-

The shine is coming of Roenicke a bit(gee, where have we heard that before). But he's still hitting .300 and looks to be more than just a courtesy pick by the Brewers.

 

Cameron Garfield, the real story so far this year. He was a good defensive catcher coming out, but he's hitting the ball after missing much of last year.

 

Yadiel Rivera-A ultra toolsy SS who's got some pop, and great range at SS, but who hasn't yet hit for power or get the plate discipline. If that comes, he and the next guy;

Orlando Arcia-A 17 year old who's missing the entire year due to injury could really make things interesting. Note to Brewers-Just don't trade away both within one year if they're among the best in the league at their position and then go with a Yuni Betancourt type at short.

 

But as exciting as AA and to a lesser extent AAA is some of the younger guys at rookie level.

 

Clint Coultier-Making the Brewers brass look good so far. The kid's ANOTHER catcher, hitting for power, average and walking.

20 BB/21 K's, .298/.419 and he's starting to show some power.

Jose Pena-Another 19 year old with a .930 OPS hitting well over .300 and a 5 tool player.

 

In Helena, it looks like the Brewers hit on yet another late round pick in McFarland who's raking at AA in Chris McFarland, another guy we drafted in the 16th-17th round and stole from FSU that's tearing it up.

Alfredo Rodriguez, a SS hitting .300...

 

That's not including guys like Max Walla and other guys with rocky starts who have come a long ways.

 

We may or may not have superstars...

My guess is that Arcia is a guy who could be a superstar;

McFarland could be a elite 2nd basemen.

Rivera has to improve his plate discipline a great deal, but he's got all the skills to play SS and he's got some power in his bat and is still young.

Michael Reed's a 5 tool young guy who's bounced all over the place.

 

And then the biggest potential power hitter, Roache who has yet to play after hitting 30 bombs as a Soph leading the nation, and Haniger who's missed some time.

 

So my question now is, despite missing several guys, do you still consider this team void of positional prospect, or simply a team LOADED in the lower levels with talented position players and filled in the upper levels with pitching prospects.

 

 

And this is way too early, but while I think Arcia could turn into a star as could McFarland....I think Coultier could be the steal of this draft. A HS kid this young who has this good of an understanding of the strike zone and the type of power he shows as a catcher is incredibly impressive.

 

 

Anyway, you never know until a guy hits the big leagues obvious, ask Taylor Green. But I still think Mat Gamel is a guy who's going to lead the next wave one way or another. Either by playing all over the place next year or by taking back 1st base next year as I still believe he's a 4 WAR player.

 

In fact, I think moving Hart and then putting Gamel into 1st base could net us another NICE prospect and could help a legit .300 hitter settle into his role for the next 7-8 years as he should have this year when he got out to a .280/.350 start while playing very good defense.

 

And trading Hart coming off a .280/.30 HR season could be really valuable.

 

 

 

Still, bottom line, until these guys in the lower levels really start to move up and do something at the upper levels, it won't mean much, but it's sure as hell nice to see our 1st round C have such a great approach at the plate and carry a .420 OBP while hitting .300(rounding up a couple points).

 

WATCH OUT LUC!

[Brewers ST920]

"If" Greinke did come back, what affect does that have on Hart moving to a different position? I assume you are referring to more of a trade then anything else.

 

Gamel has the potential to play out in RF next year. He has a canon for an arm, and pretty accurate one to boot. For his size his speed is slightly above average, but relatively slow for an outfielder. In my opinion, similar to what Hart had to offer (speed wise) before moving over to 1B. There is the whole discussion of, "should we move him again". If RRR wants Hart to "hang up his outfield glove" this is one of the last places Gamel has to prove himself.

 

Khris Davis could impose a very interesting situation for the Brewers. Like you mentioned, he destroyed the ball in AA and is doing the same thing in AAA. However, there is absolutely no way they move Braun out of a position he is comfortable with for Kh. Davis. If anything, Davis moves over to RF (depending on arm strength).

 

Up until now Clint Coulter was really struggling with the stick...and even more-so catching. His last few games have really jumped his average up, considerably. The way his defense has been I don't expect to see him stick at catcher. Personally, I have never seen someone put up such horrifyingly poor defensive stats as Coulter has. I'm not saying he doesn't have opportunity to turn it around, but if he is this bad at defense, I can't see him staying there much longer.

 

The Brewers farm system is in a much, much better place than where it was even half a year ago. This year's draft replenished the system with players who actually have the potential to hit. I must say, the system is fun to listen and watch; ESPECIALLY Huntsville.

[igor67]

About the only thing we are short on is big time right handed hitters. Segura helps, but pretty much all of the best corner IF and OF prospects are lefties. This is far from the end of the world, but when you are trying to find MLB playing time and get the most out of mid range guys being able to platoon productively really helps. There are enough upper level guys that you should easily be able to fill out the roster with minimum salary guys and free up a solid amount of money for pitching. There is an argument for maybe bringing in a veteran for the 25th slot (i.e. the guy who barely plays and only pinch hits every couple of games). Overall though there is a lot of reason to think you can churn the roster pieces around Braun over the next few years and have a lot of fun. To say nothing of what happens if 2/3 of Davis, Morris, and Gamel hit their ceilings. That would be a lot of line-up thunder.

[biedergb]

Coulter has turned around his offense since his first few weeks. His splits in July and August

Jul .314/.462/.371/.834

Aug .538//.625/1.000/1.625

 

4 of his 6 XBH and 3 of his 4 HR have come in the last week.

[sfl2hnq17]

Bieder, it's funny that you bring that up because a lot of guys seem to be doing that as well (starting cold and heating up). Just look at Adam Giacalone is another example of that in Helena.

[splitterpfj]

I'm very interested in the guys at the rookie level this year, and Roache hasn't even played yet.

 

In the higher levels, Morris has taken a huge step forward this year, and Davis just plain looks like a hitter, no matter which level he's at in the system. I think Gennett needs all of next year in AAA, which is fine, since Weeks is in Milwaukee, but it's clear, the Brewers think Gennett will play at the MLB level.

 

I know some of you really want to see Gamel succeed, but honestly, I don't expect to see it happen. If the Brewers make a deal over the winter, Gamel may get another shot, but honestly, with Hart and Aoki manning the two spots Gamel could fill, he may have already had his last chance to start for the Brewers.

 

That's a shame, and I certainly have nothing against Mat, but I think it's the reality, I think he'll need to catch a break to get another starting role.

[benji]

A question for those of you who have followed Hunter Morris. Is his BABIP of .357 giving us any false hope for him? I am excited to see how much he has improved, but don't know if he can keep that up.

[TooLiveBrew]

Gamel has the potential to play out in RF next year. He has a canon for an arm, and pretty accurate one to boot. For his size his speed is slightly above average, but relatively slow for an outfielder. In my opinion, similar to what Hart had to offer (speed wise) before moving over to 1B. There is the whole discussion of, "should we move him again". If RRR wants Hart to "hang up his outfield glove" this is one of the last places Gamel has to prove himself.

Actually, Gamel's lack of throwing accuracy (largely related to footwork/mechanics) is why he didn't stick at 3B. I think I'm one of few, but I actually think that at this point Mat is a 1B-only player at this point, unless he's filling in in emergency-type situations. And fwiw I think he's an asset on defense at 1B. I think he certainly could go out & play 3B/corner OF, I just don't think the results would be pretty.

[trwi7]

I just can't get behind Gennett as a legit prospect. He is barely keeping his OPS above .700.

[TooLiveBrew]

I just can't get behind Gennett as a legit prospect. He is barely keeping his OPS above .700.

His second half has been absolutely miserable. I will still keep some faith, but he clearly has a lot of work to do. The good news is that his defense has reportedly improved significantly.

[splitterpfj]

Ladies and Gentlemen, Mr Scooter Counsell...

[sfl2hnq17]

Benji, I think for Morris it is a matter of him driving the ball. I've been paying attention but he isn't hitting seeing eye grounders from what I've been noticing.

[jjfanec]

Benji, I think for Morris it is a matter of him driving the ball. I've been paying attention but he isn't hitting seeing eye grounders from what I've been noticing.

 

He almost has as many XBH as singles so you are right, he is not hitting lucky singles

[sfl2hnq17]

I think the other big thing for Hunter is that he is walking for a better clip. Not great, but there is improvement.

[TheCrew07]

Scooter Gennett is not Craig Counsell with bat, doesn't profile like CC with the bat, but unfortunately doesn't profile to be as good as CC was defensively.

 

He may ultimately end up hitting as poorly as CC, his OPS is trending downward with each successive level, but that's not what his tools suggest he is. He's not a slap hitting IF, not at all, and he may not figure it out with the bat but if he does this is a young man who could be a double digit HR hitter despite his size.

[gregmag]

I'm becoming convinced that we should trade Hart in the offseason, and the biggest reason is that we have a bunch of guys with a reasonable chance to fill his spot capably who are ready or nearly ready to play.

 

I like Hart. He's productive, and he's reasonably paid, and he seems like a great citizen. I have no affirmative desire to get rid of him for the sake of getting rid of him. But he has trade value, with several years of strong production and another year of reasonable salary, and if he produces next year he'll probably do well in FA.

 

Meanwhile, we have all these corner types knocking on the door (in my approximate order of likelihood to contribute next year):

 

Gamel

Khris Davis

Green

Gindl

Morris

 

The individual odds for any one of those guys to step in and provide, say, 80% of Corey Hart's value next year can't be very good. But the aggregate odds that one or more of them can do it? Those have to be good odds.

 

We probably won't compete next year. But even if we do, we're bringing back Braun, Ramirez, Aoki, Lucroy, Weeks at what we hope will be full power, and maybe Gomez who will maybe hit. We can afford a small gamble at 1b even if we're thinking about contending. Plus, whichever of the young guys don't start will probably help to improve the bench from its current Morgan-Ransom-Ishikawa level, especially when you also throw Logan Schafer into the mix, filling innings in cf.

 

Part of the beauty of trading Hart to open up space is that we can shift the young guys around as needed. If one doesn't hit and has no options, reduce his PT. If one doesn't hit and has options, send him down. Morris isn't ready in April? Maybe he'll be ready in July. Again, I think that strategy will yield decent production at 1b while showing us what we really have in some of these guys.

 

Also -- this is a strange thread for asking this question, but it's part of the mosaic -- how sure are we that Aoki can't play cf? Is there any chance of a soft platoon with Aoki and Schafer? If so, an argument starts to build for possibly letting Gomez walk (I'm assuming Morgan is gone). But that's another, very complicated discussion.

[splitterpfj]

Scooter Gennett is not Craig Counsell with bat, doesn't profile like CC with the bat, but unfortunately doesn't profile to be as good as CC was defensively.

 

I agree, I was just being a wizenheimer.

 

Ironically, it was Gennett's bat that made scouts notice him, but to this point, he's hit less with each level of promotion. I view him as a solid prospect until he proves otherwise, which I realize he's doing with the bat right now. I'm still betting on him.

[CheezWizHed]

Gennett just keeps hitting his way up the organizational chain. Always been a fan of mine, but he just keeps getting the most out of his abilities.

 

Cool! How does he know you?

[nate82]

Scooter Gennett is not Craig Counsell with bat, doesn't profile like CC with the bat, but unfortunately doesn't profile to be as good as CC was defensively.

 

He may ultimately end up hitting as poorly as CC, his OPS is trending downward with each successive level, but that's not what his tools suggest he is. He's not a slap hitting IF, not at all, and he may not figure it out with the bat but if he does this is a young man who could be a double digit HR hitter despite his size.

 

Everyone always wants to compare Gennett with Pedroia which I believe would be his ceiling and I have his floor being that of José Altuve who is another good comp with Gennett. Either way I believe Gennett is going to be a MLB contributor. I don't see Gennett being an All Star type player but he could put up numbers that will make him look like on every now and then.

[HiAndTight]

Personally, I have never seen someone put up such horrifyingly poor defensive stats as Coulter has. I'm not saying he doesn't have opportunity to turn it around, but if he is this bad at defense, I can't see him staying there much longer.

 

I'm not arguing with you, but are you just looking at his actual STATS, ie, passed balls, etc..etc...to come to this conclusion, or have you gotten a chance to watch him and are of the position that he can't stay there?

 

If it's the later, then I'll defer to your opinion.

If it's the prior, I'm not going to put much stock in a 18 year old kids defensive numbers behind the plate when he was catching HS kids a couple months ago. Not to mention, we don't have great pitching down there making it that much tougher on him.

 

I realize it's a contradiction. "Wow...he's hitting the ball so well and has walked as much as he's K'ed, but I don't care about the bad stuff...."

 

But I think there is something to that. When you draft an 18 year old catcher,if he was a defensive gem and was a great offensive player, you wouldn't have pitcked him 27th.

 

I DID see a lot of people say that his bat could stick in a corner spot coming into the draft though.

 

Just lets not forget, Lucroy's defense was a big question not too long ago.

[HiAndTight]

Gamel has the potential to play out in RF next year. He has a canon for an arm, and pretty accurate one to boot. For his size his speed is slightly above average, but relatively slow for an outfielder. In my opinion, similar to what Hart had to offer (speed wise) before moving over to 1B. There is the whole discussion of, "should we move him again". If RRR wants Hart to "hang up his outfield glove" this is one of the last places Gamel has to prove himself.

Actually, Gamel's lack of throwing accuracy (largely related to footwork/mechanics) is why he didn't stick at 3B. I think I'm one of few, but I actually think that at this point Mat is a 1B-only player at this point, unless he's filling in in emergency-type situations. And fwiw I think he's an asset on defense at 1B. I think he certainly could go out & play 3B/corner OF, I just don't think the results would be pretty.

 

 

The throw from 3rd base and the throw from RF is also not really worthy of comparsion however.

 

At 3rd base you're involved in a LOT more plays in which you have to uncork the arm and be very accurate. Plus he struggled in two area's. Coming in on balls and sidearming them to first and then when he's had a extra half second to think about the throw which resulted in him getting his footwork screwed up. Braun had a LOT of trouble with the throw to 1st base, but hasn't had much trouble in LF.

 

And what's more, I think with a guy like Gamel, the most he uncorks it, for instance if there is a play at the plate on a single to RF and a guy on 2nd, I don't see his arm being that big of an issue.

 

Point being, he had plenty of arm to play 3rd, it was his footwork that killed him and I just simply don't think that's an issue in RF. Not to compare myself to these guys, but I played C and SS and I had a lot more trouble throwing the ball on a routine play to 1st than throwing a guy out at 2nd. One is something that you think about which can impact release point and another is something that happens so fast, it becomes less of a problem.

 

 

 

For the record, I do also fear that Gamel has lost his chance to be an everyday starter and I REALLY think it's a shame. He's spent years stuck behind our 4 top offensive players save for Weeks,and then finally when he's proving he can hang and do well at 1st base, he tears up a knee.

 

To my way of thinking, best case scenario is the Brewers trade Hart THIS off-season and if he keeps up his end of thingsg, hits .280 with 32-34 HR's with that wing span at 1st base, we end up with another very good prospect and perhaps we don't have to watch a team like Pitt pick up Gamel off waivers and watch him become their #4 hittere moving forward.

[HiAndTight]

I just can't get behind Gennett as a legit prospect. He is barely keeping his OPS above .700.

 

 

Why do you do this? It seems as though you take a guy when he's struggling at his absolute worst and the cherry pick a stat here or there and then say, "meh, I don't think he's a prospect."

 

The guy was a prep player, has hit consistently moving up and was hitting very well in AA before struggling as of late.

 

These guys are going to all suffer cold spells and they're all going to have to overcome those in order to become legit big leaguers, but it's almost like you're trying to be a contrarian.

 

You've been a huge Gennett fan earlier in his career, but the more support he picks up, the quicker you are to say, "yeah, but his OPS is this."

 

So did you think differently when the 22 year old 2nd basemen had a .740 OPS with a .309/.344 line in the notoriously difficult BC stadium last year(When you where on board with him being a prospect?)

 

 

Anyway, this is what the minor leagues are about. Developing. Gennett has hit a serious cold spell and will need to overcome that before moving on to AAA.

[HiAndTight]

I'm becoming convinced that we should trade Hart in the offseason, and the biggest reason is that we have a bunch of guys with a reasonable chance to fill his spot capably who are ready or nearly ready to play.

 

I like Hart. He's productive, and he's reasonably paid, and he seems like a great citizen. I have no affirmative desire to get rid of him for the sake of getting rid of him. But he has trade value, with several years of strong production and another year of reasonable salary, and if he produces next year he'll probably do well in FA.

 

Meanwhile, we have all these corner types knocking on the door (in my approximate order of likelihood to contribute next year):

 

Gamel

Khris Davis

Green

Gindl

Morris

 

The individual odds for any one of those guys to step in and provide, say, 80% of Corey Hart's value next year can't be very good. But the aggregate odds that one or more of them can do it? Those have to be good odds.

 

We probably won't compete next year. But even if we do, we're bringing back Braun, Ramirez, Aoki, Lucroy, Weeks at what we hope will be full power, and maybe Gomez who will maybe hit. We can afford a small gamble at 1b even if we're thinking about contending. Plus, whichever of the young guys don't start will probably help to improve the bench from its current Morgan-Ransom-Ishikawa level, especially when you also throw Logan Schafer into the mix, filling innings in cf.

 

Part of the beauty of trading Hart to open up space is that we can shift the young guys around as needed. If one doesn't hit and has no options, reduce his PT. If one doesn't hit and has options, send him down. Morris isn't ready in April? Maybe he'll be ready in July. Again, I think that strategy will yield decent production at 1b while showing us what we really have in some of these guys.

 

Also -- this is a strange thread for asking this question, but it's part of the mosaic -- how sure are we that Aoki can't play cf? Is there any chance of a soft platoon with Aoki and Schafer? If so, an argument starts to build for possibly letting Gomez walk (I'm assuming Morgan is gone). But that's another, very complicated discussion.

 

 

I REALLY agree with this post.

 

The question is, what can you get for Hart? Based on rumors of teams inquiring about him this off-season, I would have to think you could get either a top 50 prospect at perhaps 3rd, OF, or maybe a power armed reliever and a top 100-ish prospect in the upper levels of a system.

 

And I think I would move Braun to RF next seaon as we know he has the arm and we know Khris Davis does not. I would give Gamel the first crack at 1B. If after 200 PA's he's underwhelming while Morris is killing it, give him a crack at it or give Khris Davis a crack.

 

Aoki is another guy who could have some good trade value given his insanely cheap contract and his abiliity to do so many different things and is going to be 31 with one yet left on his deal. If you can get lets say a power armed reliever for him, someone like Ariel from the Angels with perhaps less question about his command, I'd jump on that.

 

It's allow us to open up two spots in the near future for the players you listed, and Im going to add in there Kentrail Davis who...I just suspect is going to be a guy who continues to imrpove, or improves as the competition does, and of course Logan Schafer. No reason he can't play LF if Gomez DOES in fact continue to hit and sieze that CF position, something that I believe he will do.

 

You touched on it at the end, but Gomez is in the midst of his best season as a pro hitting .257/.310/.468 with a .778 OPS, and AGAIN, I want to reiterate, those numbers go up across the board if he doesn't get injured. You can't quantify how many base hits he loss coming back off the DL, but he spend 3-4 weeks running not a 100 pct and lost at LEAST a couple, if not 6-10 base hits that he normallygets.

 

But even if you protracte that out to a full season, that's a .778 OPS, 18 HR's and arguably the best defensive CF'er in baseball.

 

 

His growth was severely stunted by bringing him up when he was 20 or whatever. But whatever, it's ancient history now. I love the guy, love how he plays the game, and I CANNOT BELIEVE I'm sitting here this year arguing in his FAVOR in terms of playing time. His aggression which has gotten him into trouble in the past has been reigned in, and his production has shot up.

 

A healthy season in which he plays 130 games next year I could see him going .275/.320/.470/.790 with 25 HR's, 45 SB's and a Gold Glove potentially. I also realize you could drop all of those by .50 points(Which with his D would still be very solid)....and of course wouldn't be considered for a GG because he didn't hit enough HR's...which, lets be honest, is really what the GG award is about.

[Austin Tatious]

Long time lurker. This is my first post. I love this thread.

 

I am interested to hear thoughts on how Khris Davis projects as an outfielder? Can he play right fairly?

 

I would not give up Gamel. There is no reason to. He is still under club control. He has one of the sweetest swings you will ever see. I think we need to give him a fair shot.

 

I like our young arms, and I like some of our position players coming up. But, the one glaring spot is 3b. We need to develop a really nice 3b prospect. While I think Hart is one of the most under-appreciated Brewers, I would move him if we can get a really good 3b prospect. You're still covered with Gamel and Hunter Morris coming up.

[CheezWizHed]

Scouting reports when he was drafted was that his arm was pretty weak (surgery for a bad arm problem if I remember). I haven't heard anything that would say any different.

 

Not sure why people have such a problem with moving Braun over to RF. Davis can be the LFer.