2013: Which way would you go?

[502 to Right]

Goodness knows, Taylor Green has a far more consistently sound approach at the plate than Cody Ransom!

 

And if Taylor Green could play a competent MLB shortstop he'd be starting for the Brewers right now. But he can't so he's not.

[TooLiveBrew]

That's a bit rough, isn't it? I don't think there is ignorance there. I think it's a difference of opinion.

I have no problem with difference of opinion, it's the attitude that if you want to trade Ramirez... well, you just will never be happy. There's been a pretty concerted effort imo from the folks who would like to see Ramirez dealt (IF he can bring back a worthwhile prospect or more) to lay out exactly why. And it seems to me that there's been a lot of responses throughout different threads that just dismiss the notion out of hand as just people who either 'will never be happy' or 'don't get it'.

 

I happen to disagree with the idea of moving Ramirez as well. I understand the thought of moving him for youth, but, just think that's the wrong direction. Ryan Braun is a once in a LONG time talent and there is a whole bunch of really good pitching prospects and a decent amount of free agent money that is usable as a resource for a successful 2013 season.

 

Aramis is exceeding his value this year (likely will end up as a 16-17mil value via fangraphs unless something explodes) and its certainly not a stretch to think he won't maintain a pretty solid value over the next two seasons as well. Personally, I find the risk of a dramatic drop off in 2013 to be pretty low in comparison to the risk of not being able to find an adequate replacement for Aramis i we end up trading him for other pieces. Maybe that risk goes up in 2014, but for now, i'm not overly concerned. As well, if next year stinks, he's probably a pretty potent trade chip at the deadline.

 

Both directions are viable, I (and apparently others) think that the "bird in the hand" direction is better for us in 2013 for sure and not altogether too worrisome for years beyond that.

I actually don't think Ramirez will decline suddenly or massively, but I just believe that the Brewers could get a very legit prospect or two for him while continuing to build toward 2014 through the late 20-teens. I have little doubt that Melvin & Attanasio will continue to implement the 'worry about the future in the future' policy, but I obviously believe that's not the better way to maximize Ryan Braun's tenure. It's what's led to the past four seasons of 'almost' results at best, and what's led to the strategical crossroads the Brewers are currently at.

 

And for the record I have no problem with you DHonks, I usually enjoy reading your posts. I can admit your last one in this thread was more 'straw that broke the camel's back' for me.

[chad25]

What you could get back in return for these guys, I dont know. but probably young (A-ball talent) players.

 

So you want to trade young players that have (or show the ability to have) success at the major league level for A-ball talent. Do you know the percentage of A-ball talent players that NEVER make it to seeing the majors let alone have some success? You have almost no chance of getting talent back that will reach the same level of success as the players you already have, not to mention adding salary for replacements. Thank god Dougie doesn't adhere to this approach.

 

 

Gamel-I think the brewers are set with Hart at 1B

 

Hart is only signed through 2013. Gamel is Brewers property for 5 more years, 2 of which are cost controlled. Long-term we need to see if there is a role for Gamel on this team, because if he approaches the success he has had in the minors he will be more valuable than Hart moving forward. If not, we move on. Hart may cost too much to resign and as a small market team the last thing we need to do is get attached to players that don't provide cost effective production.

 

well of course you dont trade those guys for nothing. you try and get young, high-ceiling talent for them. all of those players have had lots of success but are blocked by starters now so why not try and trade them. They all deserve the chance to start somewhere. The way Roenicke talks about Hart at 1B, im guessing they will extend his contract this offseason. He'll probably get the same amount that Ramirez got. We are a small-market team but the more we win, the more $$$ rolls in. Our payroll wont just stay the same and will keep going up. We cant keep moving players when they become good just because they'll ask for more money. People need to realize that we might be considered a small-market team, but we dont have to adhere to that approach (shipping out productive players and finding young cost-controlled guys). With Greinke, K-Rod, and Wolf all getting off our payroll we'll have the extra money to spend on Hart. Im not sold on Morris being the 1B of the future. see how he performs in AAA and if he still plays great, then we have a piece to move next year before the trade deadline if we are in contention for the playoffs....... xisxis you seem to tear apart other people's opinions on trades (which is fine) but I haven't seen you put your thoughts on trading in this topic. If you have then I must have skipped over it but im curious to see what think should be done.

[PKBadger]

That's a bit rough, isn't it? I don't think there is ignorance there. I think it's a difference of opinion.

It's what's led to the past four seasons of 'almost' results at best, and what's led to the strategical crossroads the Brewers are currently at.

 

You consider 2011 an "almost" result? Sure, they didn't make the World Series, but it's the best result I've seen in 30 years (given that I was one year old in 1982 and didn't literally "see" those games).

 

The Chicken Littles have been telling us that the franchise was going to collapse if we didn't trade our veterans for about the entire 8 years that I've been visiting Brewerfan. Surprisingly, it hasn't happened yet. And we still have some decent prospects in the pipeline with a good opportunity to contend in 2013.

 

I would listen on Hart this offseason (but not be especially motivated to deal) and would shop Ramirez at the deadline next year if the Brewers are out of it. Way too early to write this team off for next season.

[ninja33]

I have no problem with difference of opinion, it's the attitude that if you want to trade Ramirez... well, you just will never be happy. There's been a pretty concerted effort imo from the folks who would like to see Ramirez dealt (IF he can bring back a worthwhile prospect or more) to lay out exactly why. And it seems to me that there's been a lot of responses throughout different threads that just dismiss the notion out of hand as just people who either 'will never be happy' or 'don't get it'.

 

There are also a number of people (not saying you personally) saying we need to trade Ramirez as a salary dump. Posts a week ago along the lines of "if we can get anything for that salary, take it". Essentially saying the team NEEDS to trade Ramirez. I think those are the posts that upset the people who say keep Ramirez.....just like the posts that say there's no reason to trade Ramirez upset those in the pro-trade camp. And the reality is somewhere in between. Personally, I think the best approach is to wait and see what happens in the offseason. If the bullpen is fixed (which is the easiest part of a team to fix. but because bullpens are such a crapshoot, there's really no way to know until the season is underway), I don't think the 2013 team is that far off from competing for the division. It really depends on how the rotation shakes out. So see how the offseason is going, take calls for Aramis....and if the rotation isn't shaping up how you want it, pull the trigger if you get a good deal.

 

The team still has prospects coming up, and will be set up to succeed in 2014 if enough of the pitching prospects pan out. They're not sacrificing the future and going "all-in" again by not trading Ramirez/Hart. They can hope that half of the things that went so wrong this year go right next year and they make a playoff run, while still being set up well in the rotation for 2014.

[TooLiveBrew]

That's a bit rough, isn't it? I don't think there is ignorance there. I think it's a difference of opinion.

It's what's led to the past four seasons of 'almost' results at best, and what's led to the strategical crossroads the Brewers are currently at.

 

You consider 2011 an "almost" result? Sure, they didn't make the World Series, but it's the best result I've seen in 30 years (given that I was one year old in 1982 and didn't literally "see" those games).

 

The Chicken Littles have been telling us that the franchise was going to collapse if we didn't trade our veterans for about the entire 8 years that I've been visiting Brewerfan. Surprisingly, it hasn't happened yet. And we still have some decent prospects in the pipeline with a good opportunity to contend in 2013.

 

I would listen on Hart this offseason (but not be especially motivated to deal) and would shop Ramirez at the deadline next year if the Brewers are out of it. Way too early to write this team off for next season.

2011 is the definition of "almost". Was it an amazing & memorable season? You bet. But I want the Brewers to build so that they don't have to 'take their shot' in one season or a season and a half here & there. I want them to build something that can sustain success, not just maybe make the postseason once every three or four years.

 

Sounds like we were born in the same year. While I appreciate that 2011 was fun & amazing (I was at NLCS Game 6), the novelty of it isn't what is important to me. The planning behind it is what I'm interested in.

 

We are also similar in that Hart & Ramirez would be the only two players we'd look to move in the offseason... but it sounds like I'd be more motivated to move Hart. Capt. Obvious caveat being that the return would have to be worthwhile for me to move either.

 

The name-calling like "Chicken Littles" is the kind of thing that gets under my skin. It's just too broad & dismissive of many posts/posters who put a lot of thought into what they type out. There are extreme cases on both sides of the spectrum. I mean, according to some, the Brewers never should've traded Greinke because all they got back were lousy prospects.

[paul253]

To me the 2011 would have been much more special had we been able to do it with our home grown players. Sure we had Weeks, Braun, Fielder, Hart, etc, but the you need to look only at 2010 and 2009 to see that without Greinke and Marcum we are not a playoff team. Don't get me wrong, I'm not disappointed with the result. But I'm a little frustrated that we can't build a team like that every year.

 

What the "chicken littles" like myself would like to see is a World Series contender like the 2011 team that can survive more than a year or two before falling back to a sub .500 team. You don't do that by trading 5 of your best prospects for two seasons of veteran pitchers every year (eventually you run out of prospects like they did this past offseason). And you don't do that by using up 2/3 of your payroll on 6 guys, some of who are already (or will be when their new contract is signed) in their mid 30s. Let's face it, as much as we like Corey Hart the guy is a career .276 hitter with a career .333 OBP. He can't steal bases any more and his defense in RF took a major nose dive over the past two years. If he stays at first that's not an issue I guess but he'll be 32 years old if/when we sign him to a new contract. Is this the kind of player Milwaukee should be investing $15 million a year in? We could almost build an entire bullpen with that and still have Mat Gamel, Hunter Morris, Khris Davis, or whoever playing first base. Or ARam playing first and Taylor Green playing third base.

 

I just don't see how re-signing him when his contract is up is a good idea. And because he only has one year left, I don't see how holding on to him now is a good idea. At least we can offer him a QO and hopefully get a pick for him when he leaves, but I'd be willing to guess trading him would bring back a much better player.

[ninja33]

There are extreme cases on both sides of the spectrum. I mean, according to some, the Brewers never should've traded Greinke because all they got back were lousy prospects.

 

To be fair, I'm pretty sure that was only one guy ("ask for Trout or tell them to get bent" was his preference, i believe), although he was quite vocal about it.

[TooLiveBrew]

There are extreme cases on both sides of the spectrum. I mean, according to some, the Brewers never should've traded Greinke because all they got back were lousy prospects.

 

To be fair, I'm pretty sure that was only one guy ("ask for Trout or tell them to get bent" was his preference, i believe), although he was quite vocal about it.

That's true, however earlier in the season there were some posters who were convinced the Brewers were going to do better simply by taking the comp. pick for Greinke, and not trading him for the 'crap' prospects that teams like the Angels & Rangers had to offer.

[RockCoCougars]

The Angels' trade package was fair, but if the reports are correct, the Ranger offer was crap. I would have taken the draft pick instead of that deal.

[splitterpfj]

RockCo, I can absolutely confirm two of the three players Texas offered, and they're good young pitchers...pitchers Melvin was seriously tempted to take. If Texas had stepped up on the position player, it seems as though the Brewers preferred the two arms from the Rangers to the two they got from the Angels.

[RockCoCougars]

RockCo, I can absolutely confirm two of the three players Texas offered, and they're good young pitchers...pitchers Melvin was seriously tempted to take. If Texas had stepped up on the position player, it seems as though the Brewers preferred the two arms from the Rangers to the two they got from the Angels.

 

I actually like Grimm, but Buckels seems to be a huge longshot at this point, and I'm not a fan of the mini-middle IF that they offered to throw in. If I'm Melvin, I don't do a deal like that, which has a very good chance of looking horrible in five years. I'd rather let ZG walk and take the pick.

[MNBrew]

To me the 2011 would have been much more special had we been able to do it with our home grown players. Sure we had Weeks, Braun, Fielder, Hart, etc, but the you need to look only at 2010 and 2009 to see that without Greinke and Marcum we are not a playoff team. Don't get me wrong, I'm not disappointed with the result. But I'm a little frustrated that we can't build a team like that every year.

 

What the "chicken littles" like myself would like to see is a World Series contender like the 2011 team that can survive more than a year or two before falling back to a sub .500 team. You don't do that by trading 5 of your best prospects for two seasons of veteran pitchers every year (eventually you run out of prospects like they did this past offseason). And you don't do that by using up 2/3 of your payroll on 6 guys, some of who are already (or will be when their new contract is signed) in their mid 30s. Let's face it, as much as we like Corey Hart the guy is a career .276 hitter with a career .333 OBP. He can't steal bases any more and his defense in RF took a major nose dive over the past two years. If he stays at first that's not an issue I guess but he'll be 32 years old if/when we sign him to a new contract. Is this the kind of player Milwaukee should be investing $15 million a year in? We could almost build an entire bullpen with that and still have Mat Gamel, Hunter Morris, Khris Davis, or whoever playing first base. Or ARam playing first and Taylor Green playing third base.

 

I just don't see how re-signing him when his contract is up is a good idea. And because he only has one year left, I don't see how holding on to him now is a good idea. At least we can offer him a QO and hopefully get a pick for him when he leaves, but I'd be willing to guess trading him would bring back a much better player.

 

Paul, 2 beefs & 1 major point of agreement. First, the beefs:

 

1. There's not really any team that's as consistently fully "homegrown" as what it sounds like you'd be hoping for from the Brewers. The '11 was mostly homegrown in the field & largely not on the mound. Without those major moves to improve the rotation, we weren't going to sniff anything close to playoff contention. I can't fault Melvin at all for making the moves he did.

2. Related to #1, Melvin & Co. figured they should've had at least a 2-year window for major contention. But this team tripped out of the starting gate and ultimately the wheels just came off. However, I still believe this team should've been performing a ton better than it has. Greinke was outstanding except for 2 terrible starts. Marcum was good, proving largely that his October collapse wasn't symptomatic of a downward career trend, but then he got hurt. Gallardo's had an off year, Wolf hasn't pitched anywhere nearly this badly for the past several seasons (except May-plus of 2010), and Narveson made 2 starts before being lost for the year. We lost our strong/reliable SS and had no one good to replace him with. Rickie Weeks forgot how to hit a baseball at all for 3 months. Gamel was lost for the season and RR had to play Morgan &/or Ishikawa ('til Ishi got hurt, anyway) a lot before Gomez came back & Hart shifted to 1B. Axford & K-Rod have been incredibly lousy and that's ended up magnifying in a major way that the rest of the bullpen's been as bad as Ax & K-Rod -- of course to the extreme point where they can't be truly counted on to hold a lead at all. . . . Point being this: Even if some of these things were bound to happen, it kinda defies the odds that so many of these things have come to pass, let alone ALL of them. It makes the FO's plan look horrible in hindsight, but it really wasn't a lousy plan (remember, Melvin did dump Yuni B to land Gonzalez, which theoretically addressed the most glaring issue on the diamond the '11 Brewers had). Remember, too, that the Felix & Weaver contracts (5/$85M or so on average, right?) were seen as being the type of contract Greinke would likely get offered & hopefully take -- and that, with another good Brewers year, most saw there being a good chance Greinke may well take given his personality, etc. . . . until the Giants gave that Sabathia-level deal to someone not named Sabathia (Matt Cain), which also screwed up that whole particular plan.

 

Sorry to get so carried away. My major point of agreement is this:

 

I love your logic on Hart vs. Ramirez moving forward. I like much of what Hart's doing at 1B, but I like what Ramirez is doing at 3B much better -- comparable power (XBH's), better run production, better OPS, etc. -- and I'd also hope to see them explore moving Hart. I think Ramirez has been more consistent over his career than Hart, and a better run producer at that. Losing either Hart or Ramirez helps give some needed financial flexibility, and I think Ramirez is the one who's more worth keeping (and a few more million bucks a year isn't enough to sway my decision).

[igor67]

The other big thing to consider if one wants to assume a Hart vs. Ramirez is that there are a larger number of internal candidates who could potentially match Hart. Green is really the only 3rd base guy at this point, and while he might give a modest leg up on defense his ceiling looks more like an .800 OPS with .750 being more likely. That's a far cry from Aramis. On the flipside I could see (not that it is the most likely, but it is possible) Davis, Gamel, or Morris out OPSing Hart.

[endaround]

Hart isn't a good value at 1B. In RF, yes. He is basically average at best at 1B where he is significantly above average in RF. Given Roneicke's recent comments, Hart should be traded.

[clancyphile]

To me the 2011 would have been much more special had we been able to do it with our home grown players. Sure we had Weeks, Braun, Fielder, Hart, etc, but the you need to look only at 2010 and 2009 to see that without Greinke and Marcum we are not a playoff team. Don't get me wrong, I'm not disappointed with the result. But I'm a little frustrated that we can't build a team like that every year.

 

What the "chicken littles" like myself would like to see is a World Series contender like the 2011 team that can survive more than a year or two before falling back to a sub .500 team. You don't do that by trading 5 of your best prospects for two seasons of veteran pitchers every year (eventually you run out of prospects like they did this past offseason). And you don't do that by using up 2/3 of your payroll on 6 guys, some of who are already (or will be when their new contract is signed) in their mid 30s. Let's face it, as much as we like Corey Hart the guy is a career .276 hitter with a career .333 OBP. He can't steal bases any more and his defense in RF took a major nose dive over the past two years. If he stays at first that's not an issue I guess but he'll be 32 years old if/when we sign him to a new contract. Is this the kind of player Milwaukee should be investing $15 million a year in? We could almost build an entire bullpen with that and still have Mat Gamel, Hunter Morris, Khris Davis, or whoever playing first base. Or ARam playing first and Taylor Green playing third base.

 

I just don't see how re-signing him when his contract is up is a good idea. And because he only has one year left, I don't see how holding on to him now is a good idea. At least we can offer him a QO and hopefully get a pick for him when he leaves, but I'd be willing to guess trading him would bring back a much better player.

 

I have to agree - the situation with Hart and A-Ram is such that the Crew needs to move them both. A-Ram is 2 years and $26 million, Hart's another $10 million. The $22 million in 2013 could bring Greinke back - and if you can get AA/AAA prospects back for A-Ram and Hart, perhapsa few holes can be filled at around league minimum.

 

My thoughts? Deal Hart to the Rockies for Nolan Arenado and Trevor Story. Helton's fading, and Hart fills a hole there. Then flip A-Ram to the D-Backs for Matt Davidson and Chad Bettis.

[logan82]

You are right. Hart has about 2 WAR this season so he is about average at 1B. Or was WAR a counting stat?

 

Hart is a top 10 1B right now who plays good defense. His bat is more valuable in RF but it isn't like his ba is bad at 1B.

[paul253]

There's not really any team that's as consistently fully "homegrown" as what it sounds like you'd be hoping for from the Brewers. The '11 was mostly homegrown in the field & largely not on the mound. Without those major moves to improve the rotation, we weren't going to sniff anything close to playoff contention. I can't fault Melvin at all for making the moves he did.

I think there are a couple. Atlanta and TB come to mind. I don't necessarily consider "home grown" to be entirely guys you draft or sign, but also prospect you trade for. Oakland seems to fit that mold a bit as well, though they haven't been nearly as consistent. And actually Washington looks like they may fit that mold soon too, though admittedly they lucked out and got the chance to draft two of the highest regarded draft prospects in history. And obviously no team is fully "home grown". Every team has a FA contributor or two.

 

And don't get me wrong, I don't disagree with what Melvin did when he traded for Greinke and Marcum. That was a very wise move as it was apparent we were an all offense no pitching team. But we aren't in the same boat anymore. We finally have pitching, and a lot of it, coming up. I think 2013 is too soon to rely on them, but by 2014 we are probably going to be fielding teams with 5 of our own pitchers for quite a while. That's why I think 2014 is really the year you try to set up your franchise to be one of those consistent winners. But if you have zero financial flexibility to fix the issues that arise (injuries, under-performers, lack of depth, etc) because all of your money is tied up in 6 players then you're just asking for a 2012 all over again.

[faede]

 

I have to agree - the situation with Hart and A-Ram is such that the Crew needs to move them both. A-Ram is 2 years and $26 million, Hart's another $10 million. The $22 million in 2013 could bring Greinke back - and if you can get AA/AAA prospects back for A-Ram and Hart, perhapsa few holes can be filled at around league minimum.

 

My thoughts? Deal Hart to the Rockies for Nolan Arenado and Trevor Story. Helton's fading, and Hart fills a hole there. Then flip A-Ram to the D-Backs for Matt Davidson and Chad Bettis.

 

Two big questions: why would a team trade a 3b prospect that is projected for 2014 with enough potential for Aramis? That would equate to something similar to us now trading Jean Segura for say, Jimmy Rollins (if Rollins only had two more seasons left on his contract). I doubt it would happen. To get that kind of prospect, we'd have to probably trade one of our better pitching prospects. Which is a scary proposition.

 

Second. I don't think people are giving Aramis enough credit for what he is doing. He's currently a 3.3 WAR. Behind only David Wright, Chase Headley and Miguel Cabrera. Seriously, that is HARD to match. I think people are far overestimating how difficult that is to find in a prospect and how difficult that is to be certain of when projecting a prospect.

 

To be certain you could match that, you're looking at a Brett Lawrie type trade candidate. Among the top 10ish prospects out there, you'd probably have to get a Olt/Castellanos/Rendon type haul for your trade to really be certain you can get that type of production and be truly confident the prospect will pan out to what you need.

 

How are you going to get that type of talent without a Wily Peralta/Tyler Thornberg type trade to do so.

 

Look, I'm not saying it's not possible and I can't imagine Doug Melvin won't at least see what is out there in terms of trade for Hart/Ramirez.

 

There's a lot of question marks out there right now. Aramis and Hart are stability. It'll take a bit of luck to ensure our starting pitchers (although there is a LOT of options, so that risk is mitigated) are solid 2013-2014. I would HATE to add more question marks to the equation in 2013 and 2014.

 

In summary: Don't underestimate what you have in Hart, and moreso, Aramis. That is a STRENGTH right now and I'd hate to turn it into a weakness.

[endaround]

The Brewers only had a home grown C, 1B, 2B, 3B, RF, LF, 2 starting pitchers and the closer. Not sure how you expect more than that.

[paul253]

To be certain you could match that, you're looking at a Brett Lawrie type trade candidate. Among the top 10ish prospects out there, you'd probably have to get a Olt/Castellanos/Rendon type haul for your trade to really be certain you can get that type of production and be truly confident the prospect will pan out to what you need

 

You don't need to acquire a third basemen for Ramirez. It'd be nice, but not necessary. You can never have too much pitching so I'd be happy to take a pitcher back. And even with Segura we still have a pretty gaping hole at shortstop.

 

In summary: Don't underestimate what you have in Hart, and moreso, Aramis. That is a STRENGTH right now and I'd hate to turn it into a weakness.

 

I understand, but let's not overestimate them either. And by that, let's think very carefully before handing Hart a 3-4 year deal for $60 million.

 

Finally, and I only mention this because it's the second time in the last week or so it's happened, but please be careful when you are quoting someone that you actually quote the right person. That quote you attached my name to was actually from clancyfile, not me.

[faede]

To be certain you could match that, you're looking at a Brett Lawrie type trade candidate. Among the top 10ish prospects out there, you'd probably have to get a Olt/Castellanos/Rendon type haul for your trade to really be certain you can get that type of production and be truly confident the prospect will pan out to what you need

 

You don't need to acquire a third basemen for Ramirez. It'd be nice, but not necessary. You can never have too much pitching so I'd be happy to take a pitcher back. And even with Segura we still have a pretty gaping hole at shortstop.

 

In summary: Don't underestimate what you have in Hart, and moreso, Aramis. That is a STRENGTH right now and I'd hate to turn it into a weakness.

 

I understand, but let's not overestimate them either. And by that, let's think very carefully before handing Hart a 3-4 year deal for $60 million.

 

Finally, and I only mention this because it's the second time in the last week or so it's happened, but please be careful when you are quoting someone that you actually quote the right person. That quote you attached my name to was actually from clancyfile, not me.

 

 

Totally agree with you there. An extension is certainly not something I'd be interested in and one that should be handled extremely carefully.

 

My apologies on the quote. I'm not that great with the software here on the board. It's edited.

 

 

 

I do understand your point, though and feel it is a good one on getting prospects for Hart and (possibly) Ramirez. I just really think we could go somewhere in 2013 if things fall for us right and I think, as a whole, the baseball community tends to overrate prospects a little too much. They are a risk and an unknown.

 

I'm pretty much with Melvin on this one. Blow me away and we'll talk. But otherwise, I'm comfortable going in with Ramirez and less so, with Hart (as he only has a year left).

[igor67]

Actually Hart ranks 8th among MLB first basemen by WAR right now, while 11th in RF. I'd say his relative value is pretty similar at both positions, though I'd lean towards 1st since observationally he looks like a better defender there.

[logan82]

In summary: Don't underestimate what you have in Hart, and moreso, Aramis. That is a STRENGTH right now and I'd hate to turn it into a weakness.

They are a strength now but are both past what is considered to be prime age for players. I would bet on them being good next year as well but 2014 and beyond I would expect at least some decline. Given that I don't think a 3-4 year contract for either would be a good idea. So unless Hart wants to go year to year you almost have to trade him or let him walk for nothing. Ramirez, I don't want him past the three years of his contract. Sure we can't get an equivalent player for him but if he isn't going to be around when we are expecting to compete we might as well trade him for something.*

 

 

All opinions based on a reasonable return in trade.

[slappzilla]

And we still have some decent prospects in the pipeline with a good opportunity to contend in 2013.

Please expand on that.

 

"decent" is arguably a stretch. I'm sorry, but the Brewers farm system is still a bottom five system when compared to the rest of MLB. Fiers has been a great surprise, but I think the other arms in our system are still either overhyped, or too inexperienced to make any sort of impact next year. I'm all for giving them a shot in the rotation next year, but expecting them to perform at a level that would push the Brewers towards contention is highly unlikely. Let them work their bugs out in 2013, either in the bigs or AAA, and let's come out in 2014 or 2015 as a legit contender.

 

As much as I hope I am wrong, I don't see the Brewers contending in 2013, which is why I want to trade Ramirez. That last year of this contract is $16M. I go off the mindset, if you're not going to contend, build for the future.