On a Scale of 1 to 10...

[pacopete4]

How happy are you with our trades/moves so far?

 

 

I am at about a 7 because we didn't get to trade Wolf, Krod or Marcum yet but when looking at prospects other teams got I think Melvin did an awesome job. We have 4 players that can possibly contribute to the Brewers including filling a huge hole at SS. We got two guys who might be starters and a dude that's filthy in the pen if can clean up mechanics.

 

Pretty pleased compared to what others traded and received.

[torts]

between 4.20 and 6.66

[pogokat]

Wolf and Krod are worthless in trades...both guys are owed several million dollars and have been terrible...they were never going to be traded for anything...if one gets hot this month, i suppose they might be traded for cash considerations...Marcum is hurt, so isn't going to be traded, but i have a feeling he will be resigned or at least offered arbitration---I'd guess the brewers feel like they need one veteran type besides Gallardo in the rotation, and the known commodity- Marcum- likely trumps the unknowns...

 

I give it a 5...I think Seggy will be a major league starter, but he's not a blue chip...as for the pitchers, they don't seem much better than the guys we already had in the minors...so, it was a good trade, but not a team changer in the long run...well, other than we have the worst hitter in the history of baseball in izturis taking at bats away from one of the most notorious 4a players of the last twelve years in Ransom...so, i guess a real major league short stop is pretty awesome

[Dollarbill13]

I'd rate the Greinke trade an 8.40 but drop it down to 4.60 for not trading anyone else.

[Raw Biz]

I'd rate the Greinke trade an 8.40 but drop it down to 4.60 for not trading anyone else.

 

http://mlblogscountingbaseballs.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/huh.jpg

[thablingster]

I'd also go with 7. Greinke was dealt because he wasn't going to immediately re-sign and the team isn't in a place to compete this year. It makes complete sense. The front office still feels the team can compete in 2013 provided they don't do a complete tear down (Hart, Ramirez, etc.) and I'm fine with that.

 

Guys like Wolf and K-Rod who likely won't be here next year would have been sell low candidates based on recent performance, so holding onto them into August isn't going to necessarily be of complete detriment considering their salaries are already accounted for.

 

A playoff contending team is one major injury away from seeking an established veteran to fill in and if Wolf or K-Rod do well early in August they could re-establish some value.

[TheCrew07]

I'm not sure how to answer this because what I think might be a 10 wouldn't necessarily be what others would think.

 

If Profar straight up or Olt & Perez would have been a 10 for Greinke (unrealistic of course but what's the ceiling on the scale?) then I'd give the 2 trades a 6. I think DM got the best possible package he could for Greinke and as I've said elsewhere I think the Angels actually overpaid. This is new ground for me but I'm actually pretty happy with the Greinke trade, I was fearing the trade would go in a different direction and I'm glad my fears proved unfounded.

 

I'll take a legit middle infield prospect and 2 high ceiling arms for a rental every single time.

 

Fautino De Los Santos was a decent return for Kottaras considering he wouldn't have made it through waivers, he may never pan out but he sure has a big arm.

[Eye Black]

7.5. A tough question to answer. As others mentioned, the two trades that were made came close to maximizing value and brought some legitimate prospects to the organization. The biggest failure in my opinion is that Marcum could not be traded at the deadline, but that was due to his injury and not DM's fault. I would have liked to see Ramirez or Hart dealt, but I had no expectations of that actually happening.

[SoCal Brew Crew Fan]

I don't know what the right number is, but DM did just about all he could do. The return for Greinke was the highest the market would allow and could fill a nice hole down the line. More pitching is better too. The only way to do more would have been to make a decision to trade ARam or Hart...I'm not sure I'm on board with that so I'm ok he didn't go there. He was successful in replacing the lost run production from losing Prince, so I'd keep that lineup together for a shot at the playoffs the next couple years. Maybe a lower probability than we thought this year, but they'll be competitive.

 

Unfortunately they didn't get a shot to test the market on Marcum, Wolf or KRod...but their injuries and/or poor showings cost them a chance. Can't pin that on DM.

[FVBrewerFan]

One of those things we'll never know- did anyone ever make a serious offer for Hart or ARam? Or at least want to talk to Melvin about an offer?

[Ennder]

Probably a 7 or an 8. The fact we got something useful for Kotteras is amazing. We got a really solid package for Greinke too.

[RockCoCougars]

Ask me in 5 to 10 years...

 

To be honest, right now I'd have to give them a 8 on the move solely based on the fact that they seemingly went for upside and didn't put all their eggs in one basket. I wanted pitching and shortstop help and they tried to address both.

[GAME05]

i'd go an 8. really happy that Melvin didn't jump for a low-upside MLB-ready package and instead took some players who hopefully will all be really solid contributors in the future. the packages for Pence and Dempster just seemed 'meh,' and Greinke's was the only one that really stood out as solid.

 

i'm pretty sure DM has said that you get more in trade for position players in the offseason than mid-season, so i'll just accept that as truth and judge it just on Greinke and not in combination with ARam and/or Hart.

[logan82]

I would go with 9 but grading on a curve I would say 7. I was hoping for more trades but the ones we made were pretty good. Florida and Chicago sort of broke the curve in terms of volume. I still get the feeling we are trying to be a playoffs team next year instead of tearing things down a bit and focusing on 2014.

[igor67]

I'd go with a 7, but that I don't think you can get a complete evaluation until the August deadline. If he isn't able to deal anymore vets getting a better than I expected was possible haul for Greinke merits a solid but not spectacular grade.

[monty57]

From MLBtraderumors.com:

 

Phones across the country were ringing off the hook today, but it doesn't appear that was the case in Milwaukee. Brewers General Manager Doug Melvin said, "I didn’t have any calls from a General Manager all day," according to Tom Haudricourt of the Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel (via Twitter).

 

This is why I have a hard time giving a high rating to Melvin & the Brewers. They got a good return on the moves they were forced to make, but they seem to refuse to make moves until it is the only valid option. Instead, Melvin says "I need to be bowled over" and then stares at his phone and wonders why it won't ring.

 

They had a good chance to take a step back in 2013 to take several steps forward in 2014 and beyond, and they refuse to go in that direction. I fear that at some point in the not-too-distant future this method of management will lead to everything crumbling down. At that point, we will look like the Astros of a few years ago and it's a long, painful process digging out of that hole. It's sad because judging by the return Melvin negotiated when a trade had to be made, I think he's pretty good at it, and he could've gotten a good return if the decision had been made to make some trades that didn't have to be made. That shows the direction of the team, which may be a Melvin decision, or may be an Attanasio decision.

 

So, in rating the return on Greinke and Kottaras I can understand the 7 and 8 ratings. As to where we're headed, I hope we'll be a "5" in a couple years, as in I hope we can still vie for a .500 record in 2014 and beyond when we refuse to trade anyone unless they're not very good (Kottaras, Loe, Veras), they've destroyed their trade value (Hardy, Wolf, McGehee), or have refused to extend with the team in a season in which they will become free agents and we're hopelessly out of contention and falling (Lee, Greinke).

[Invader3K]

I'd say about a 6.5 for me. I think he got a great return between Greinke and Kottaras, but I would have liked to see either Ramirez or Hart traded. It seemed like a lot of teams were trying to find solid hitting middle of the order types, but Melvin apparently refused to shop either one.

 

I can't really fault him for not being able to unload any pitching, though. Who is really going to want Wolf or K-Rod right now? Those guys might get moved this month, though.

[Baldkin]

DM was just on WSSP, and to paraphrase, said he never had any legitimate offers for Hart or Ramirez so talks never really progressed with teams for either of them.

 

I think they got more than expected for both Kottaras and Greinke, so I think DM gets a 13 out of 10 from me for those trades, and a 5 out of 10 for not moving more pieces, leaving him with an aggregate of 9/10.

[FVBrewerFan]

We'll never know if it's true that Melvin never got any legit offers for Hart or Ramirez. Really surprising to me someone wouldn't want a big bat like that down the stretch. Sure, you have to keep them after this year, and that's a little problematic- especially in the case of Ramirez. But even at that, I would think somneone would roll the dice for a power bat, and then always have the option of trying to trade them in the off-season. Worst case, you're stuck with a darn good hitter on your roster at a reasonable price.

 

I was also holding out hope they could get something for Morgan, Loe, Parra, or Izturis but that was probably more wishful thinking than reality.

[502 to Right]

From MLBtraderumors.com:

This is why I have a hard time giving a high rating to Melvin & the Brewers. They got a good return on the moves they were forced to make, but they seem to refuse to make moves until it is the only valid option. Instead, Melvin says "I need to be bowled over" and then stares at his phone and wonders why it won't ring.

 

 

I don't think Melvin wondered why his phone didn't ring. He knows why it didn't ring--the Brewers don't have any more decent pieces to trade for this year. Do you think another manager wants KRod, Wolf, Izturis, Ransom, or anyone else who doesn't have a future with the team? Marcum, due to his injury, could not be traded. Once Melvin traded Greinke and Kottaras and didn't have anything left other teams wanted.

 

I give Melvin's trades a 7.5 out of 10

[monty57]

From MLBtraderumors.com:

This is why I have a hard time giving a high rating to Melvin & the Brewers. They got a good return on the moves they were forced to make, but they seem to refuse to make moves until it is the only valid option. Instead, Melvin says "I need to be bowled over" and then stares at his phone and wonders why it won't ring.

 

 

I don't think Melvin wondered why his phone didn't ring. He knows why it didn't ring--the Brewers don't have any more decent pieces to trade for this year. Do you think another manager wants KRod, Wolf, Izturis, Ransom, or anyone else who doesn't have a future with the team? Marcum, due to his injury, could not be traded. Once Melvin traded Greinke and Kottaras and didn't have anything left other teams wanted.

 

I give Melvin's trades a 7.5 out of 10

 

I think a lot of teams would like Hart and Ramirez. You don't have to wair until someone's a "rental" before you trade them.

 

In the Minor League Forum, there is a thread asking posters to list their "Brewers Top 10 prospect" lists following the recent moves. I believe that Jean Segura is either #1 or #2 on all of the lists. We have a lot of guys in the minors who could/should become MLB players, but none that project to be really good MLB players. Hart and Ramirez could both have brought back a package centered around someone with Segura's talent level. If we make those trades, all of a sudden we've got three guys who should be good MLB players, under team control for six seasons playing for peanuts. Mix that in with Braun, Gallardo, Lucroy, etc and the prospects who should be average MLB players, and you have the makings of a good team as soon as 2014. Instead, we'll probably hold onto Hart & Ramirez to keep fans in the seats in 2013, and we won't have the top prospects to make us good in 2014. By trade deadline next year, both Hart & Ramirez's values will have dropped significantly, as Hart will be a "rental," and Ramirez will be due $20MM for his final year's service.

 

In my mind, it's a big missed opportunity... one that could have significant impact on our future. I hope I'm wrong.

[RockCoCougars]

Why would anyone want to trade Hart or Ramirez based on the return that teams were getting? The Phillies traded Pence before he became a rental, and he brought a fringe OF, a minor league reliever, and a low minors catcher (a longshot even with the eye popping numbers). Three teams were in full fire sale mode, and in doing so, I believe they hurt the market for other teams making deals.

[monty57]

Why would anyone want to trade Hart or Ramirez based on the return that teams were getting? The Phillies traded Pence before he became a rental, and he brought a fringe OF, a minor league reliever, and a low minors catcher (a longshot even with the eye popping numbers). Three teams were in full fire sale mode, and in doing so, I believe they hurt the market for other teams making deals.

 

Hunter Pence is a decent comp to Hart, but he will probably make 30-50% more than Hart next year (4th year arby, making $10.4MM this season while Hart is signed for $10.333MM next year).

 

By the time the Brewers decided to sell, it is possible that the offers weren't out there, and you're probably correct that teams like the Phillies becoming sellers hurt the market. When the Hart/Ramirez rumors started, the Phillies had not yet become sellers, and unfortunately neither had the Brewers, as that would've been the time to strike. If they wanted to get good value, the Brewers probably missed the opportunity when they decided to wait until the all-important nine-game stretch following the All Star break.

 

We still have the offseason to see if I'm wrong (I hope I am). Roenicke just made a statement to the effect of "It's up to Doug, but I want Hart as my 1B next year." That sounds like there has been some discussion about trading Hart. I like Hart, but I will be really happy if he gets traded for a Segura-level prospect. Maybe I'm just being pessimistic, but I fully expect Hart to be our starting 1B this offseason, while Gamel is either a bench bat or traded for a middle reliever.

[rluzinski]

Why would anyone want to trade Hart or Ramirez based on the return that teams were getting? The Phillies traded Pence before he became a rental, and he brought a fringe OF, a minor league reliever, and a low minors catcher (a longshot even with the eye popping numbers). Three teams were in full fire sale mode, and in doing so, I believe they hurt the market for other teams making deals.

 

Ramirez's contract now has negative value (it was very backloaded). I would trade him for nothing. Hart is worth what he's getting paid.

[RockCoCougars]

Why would anyone want to trade Hart or Ramirez based on the return that teams were getting? The Phillies traded Pence before he became a rental, and he brought a fringe OF, a minor league reliever, and a low minors catcher (a longshot even with the eye popping numbers). Three teams were in full fire sale mode, and in doing so, I believe they hurt the market for other teams making deals.

 

Ramirez's contract now has negative value (it was very backloaded). I would trade him for nothing. Hart is worth what he's getting paid.

 

A valid argument, but I don't think that the Brewers will be rebuilding any time soon. Therefore, I'm not sure if I'd want Melvin to have that extra payroll space burning a hole in his pocket this winter. He could take the 2 years owed to Ramirez and compound things by giving someone like Kyle Lohse a 3-4 year deal for big money, doling out multi-year deals to relievers, etc.