2013 FA arms

[reillymcshane]

There are actually still quite a few relievers on the market. I think we are probably done there, with 2 bullpen spots up for grabs that will probably go to Kintzler and Fautino or someone, but the market is kind of saturated. Some of these guys are going to sign for dirt cheap, why not us?

 

Jose Valverde

Brian Wilson

Francisco Rodriguez

Matt Capps

Jon Rauch

Francisco Cordero

Valverde was waiting for Soriano to sign, so someone will probably target him for a closer role. He's the best of this bunch, and at 35, not that old. He should find a job at a decent salary. I'd love to have him, but he'll get more money than we will pay - plus we can't offer a closer's role.

 

Wilson is a minor league contract waiting to happen. I've read that he is no where close to throwing like a major leaguer. I'm sure lots of teams would like him for cheap, but no one has offered him a major league contract at this point.

 

K-Rod, Caps and Rauch are no more than average relievers. Each has closing experience, and each would probably like the chance to close. But you don't want to overpay for any of them just because they have 'closer experience'. None has been particularly good the last couple of years. Average at best. Rauch is probably the most consistent of the bunch. K-Rod probably offers the best chance to rebound and have a really good season, but I think he needs a change of scenery. Legal issues and his inconsistent play didn't endear him to anyone around here. Capps has had health issues, plus he's been a wildly inconsistent player. Rauch doesn't thrill me, but if you got him for cheap - say $1 million - he's helpful. But I wouldn't overpay.

 

Francisco Cordero was awful last year. While he had a good 2011, his peripherals have shown a steady decline. At at age 38, he's not worth the money or roster space.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if Melvin added a reliever or two for cheap. Some times a player falls into your lap. You just have to be ready to grab him if the chance arises.

[monty57]

I don't know what to tell you; because there's NO way the Brewers offer Gomez that much.

 

The Brewers will definitely give Gomez a QO next off season.

 

I don't think anyone can say definitely. Even if he repeats what he did last year, is that really worth it for the Brewers to risk paying $14 million for that?

 

Well, I guess I made my point about Gomez being questionable for the QO... One "absolutely", one "no way" and one "its risky".

 

But now the Brewers have fewer compensation chances year-to-year.

Yes, agreed. But so does everyone. Everyone is going to have fewer compensation choices because there are fewer players getting a QO overall. But deep pockets has always allowed a team to give a QO or arby to players that might be "questionable" to other teams.

 

Its still not drastically different than it was, there are simply fewer compensation picks overall.

 

I agree that Gomez is "questionable" for offering the QO. I'm on the side that doesn't want the Brewers to make the offer, so I think their best move would be to find a team that would like to offer him a QO and trade him to that team prior to this season. They'd get more in trade if the receiving team would get the opportunity to make a QO.

 

As to the "fairness" of the new QO rules, one thing I always hated about the old rules was that the worst team in baseball got the first overall pick, but with all of the "compensatory" picks, the first pick in the second round was really more like a third round pick. Better teams (who traded for soon-to-be free agents mid-season) often got multiple picks before the worst team in baseball made their second pick. Now, one team loses a first rounder, and another team gains a comp pick, so the worst team in baseball gets the first pick and the 31st pick, the way it should be.

[KCBrewerfan34]

From Rotoworld.

 

Brewers owner Mark Attanasio said "there’s always a chance" the team could pursue Kyle Lohse.

"There’s always a chance," Attanasio said. "Again, it’s a function of size of contract, length of contract. Kyle had a phenomenal two seasons the last two seasons. We just have to see if that fits in our overall scheme." Milwaukee could use some rotation help, and they're one of likely a number of teams that would consider Lohse if his price falls far enough. Interest in Lohse has been sparse this winter despite the fact that he posted a 2.86 ERA and 1.09 WHIP in 211 innings last season.

[reillymcshane]

At this point, the only guy worth adding as a starting pitcher is Joe Saunders. I don't love the guy (don't really even like him much). But he takes the ball and can get you 30-33 starts, 180-200 innings. 4.00-4.50 ERA. He's a pretty consistent pitcher (consistently mediocre). He's left handed, which wouldn't be bad to have in the rotation.

 

Saunders is reportedly looking for a 3 year deal. No way I do that. I'd consider a 2 year deal at around $6-7 million. One year and an option would be even better. But Joe Blanton got 2 years and $15 million, so Saunders should be able to match that.

 

Saunders is nothing more than a back of the rotation guy who can eat up innings. He's nothing special, but he would be helpful. But it has to be at the right price.

 

The only starter who is better is Lohse, and I don't want to pay the dollars, years and draft pick it would take to sign him.

 

The rest of the starters have age issues, injury issues or plain aren't any good.

 

As for relievers, there are a bunch of guys who could help the team. Melvin just needs to keep hanging around the reliever bin at the store and wait for the right guy to lower his price. Don't want to overpay for these guys, but as I said, many guys could help.

[monty57]

Re: Lohse

 

Even if we got him at a good $ deal, it would still likely be for three years, and we'd have to to give up a 1st rounder. By 2014, the Brewers could have five other MLB-ready pitchers with more talent than Lohse, so even on a low-money deal, I wouldn't want Lohse for multiple years, nor would I want to give up a 1st rounder. Throw in that "low money" probably means at least $10MM/year, and I want no part of it.

[KCBrewerfan34]

I get it but if Lohse can do a 3.50 ERA or lower for the next 2-3 years doesn't that make sense. His numbers have been terrific over the last 2 years or so. Is there anyway we can get around the #1 pick comp? I doubt St. Louis would want him in the division.

[TooLiveBrew]

Is there anyway we can get around the #1 pick comp?

Maybe if the Brewers just say "pretty please".

 

No. And if Melvin forfeits a first-rounder for this joker, I think I'd break things.

[brewcrewdue80]

OMG Yes! ^^^^^Someone who has the same feelings I do on Lohse. I'd break things too! How about we give the Cardinals the division without any effort to dethrone for the next 6 seasons! Our loss is their gain...pick to comp pick. Any team within the division should throw up on the idea of losing a draft pick while being the team that gives an added pick to STL in return! Stl already has a FAR FAR Superior Farm than Milwaukee currently, lets skip adding a 1st rd pick ahead of STL's, then allowing them to move up a spot and gain a pick? Far be it then I have to watch Lohse implode as hmmmm every single FA STL pitcher signing in the last decade for the Brewers has?

I just want to break Lohse's arm to end the remote possibility of Brewers signing him. There cannott be a worse decision by any other team than Milw to be the ones to sign Lohse. It hurts the Brewers the Most!

[pogokat]

I've been kinda thinking that I'd like to see the Brewers bring in a back of the rotation veteran on a one year deal---the kind of guy that you just cut lose, or move to the pen if you want to move someone else into the rotation..

 

anyway, I've been looking around, and i think the guy i want is:

 

Chris Young

 

i like that he strikes out a decent amount of people and that he won't cost anything...his fip from last year was 4.5, so he's nothing great, but he's better than a random guy---and probably guys like Carlos Zambrano/carl pavano/dice k

 

he could be better---bill jame projection has him at 4.06 next year, or just slightly worse than Kyle Lohse

 

any thoughts on this super bowl sunday?

[DR28]

I've been kinda thinking that I'd like to see the Brewers bring in a back of the rotation veteran on a one year deal---the kind of guy that you just cut lose, or move to the pen if you want to move someone else into the rotation..

 

anyway, I've been looking around, and i think the guy i want is:

 

Chris Young

 

i like that he strikes out a decent amount of people and that he won't cost anything...his fip from last year was 4.5, so he's nothing great, but he's better than a random guy---and probably guys like Carlos Zambrano/carl pavano/dice k

 

he could be better---bill jame projection has him at 4.06 next year, or just slightly worse than Kyle Lohse

 

any thoughts on this super bowl sunday?

 

I would take Young on a one-year deal... He has some nice stuff.

 

Chris has a 3.79 career ERA, sure he pitched most of his years in Petco but I think he would be worth taking a flier on.

 

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/7412/career;_ylt=AkWbChGBtawNcPqH34ePo3CFCLcF

[brewcrewdue80]

Just wanted to bring this back in to light with how much Hate on the idea of signing Lohse does.

 

Look at how bad it appears now. Let me give this more.

 

17th pick: Unprotected...Meaning Lose Pick with Signing Lohse.

Signing Lohse means guaranteeing 11mil to him on our Payroll books 2014/15.

This during time that Braun/Aram/Weeks/Gallardo money escalates.

 

Losing still with Lohse.

Okay well we can get a top 10 pick that will be protected at least so we can sign a Free Agent that's been QO if need be.......................................

 

Oh wait, There's No More Money Left to Spare towards a Player like that!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Reality is setting in when I said with my argument on sticking with our young players saving the pick and taking the Lumps that may come with it. If we failed, well we had a 17th pick and if we were in a top 10 pick after such failure, we could still use it as well as giving up 2nd rd pick to sign a FA who can contribute to the team in 2014.

 

Do you see how bad signing Lohse was? There was complete lack of looking in to the future in that single move. Only, and I mean Only, reason signing Lohse was a good idea was if we had not only a Playoff Team on paper, But a Team that was the Talk of winning the NL Pennant and he's the missing piece to winning the World Series.

 

Everyone here talked about us being around .500 give or take a few games so that only scenario to sign him, wasn't there.

 

Somebody hates the Missed on Mike Trout Compensation pick with a Passion. Just wait when a SUPER STAR is picked 17th-21st in this draft and looked back upon 5years from now when Lohse is long gone. What could have been.

[JohnBriggs12]

I do think they can save some money by non-tendering Axford, and letting Hart walk, and they can void Weeks' 2015 contract by benching him fairly often. Ramirez' deal also expires after 2014. So there's some wiggle room.

 

Given their track record, do we really want them signing a pricey but not premier FA pitcher though?

[Roderick]

Ramirez' deal also expires after 2014.

 

This is probably crazy talk. But if the Brewers don't develop a 3B and ARam stays moderately healthy, he could very well be playing for us in 2015. His cost is $14M for 2015, but if the Brewers cut him loose they pay him the $4M going away present. So his net cost is $10M for 2015.

[jackailius]

I think if he is still productive and healthy I would definately consider picking it up... just depends on what we have and what else we have outstanding at the time. I know it is a mutual option, does that mean if we take it and he declines we don't pay the $4M?

[Roderick]

I think if he is still productive and healthy I would definately consider picking it up... just depends on what we have and what else we have outstanding at the time. I know it is a mutual option, does that mean if we take it and he declines we don't pay the $4M?

 

That is my understanding. I don't see him declining though, as he would have to be guaranteed that someone would pay him more than $14M. So he may decline if he had something in the ballpark and he just wanted out of Milwaukee. That would save the Brewers $4M.

[brewmann04]

well what about Trading him at some point. it not like our First round selections have been light out sure fire Major league prospects.

[JohnBriggs12]

Told you so alert!

 

I got hammered this winter particularly by MNBrew for advocating the Brewers sign Francisco Liriano. So far through 6 starts, he's 4-2 with a 1.75 ERA, and he's making $10 million less than Lohse. If his 2014 contract vests, he'll make $3 million less than Lohse next year.

 

Oh and the Brewers would have retained their number 1 pick.

 

Hindsight is 20-20 of course, but even if he had failed he could just have been cut loose.

[torts]

Told you so alert!

 

I got hammered this winter particularly by MNBrew for advocating the Brewers sign Francisco Liriano. So far through 6 starts, he's 4-2 with a 1.75 ERA, and he's making $10 million less than Lohse. If his 2014 contract vests, he'll make $3 million less than Lohse next year.

 

Oh and the Brewers would have retained their number 1 pick.

 

Hindsight is 20-20 of course, but even if he had failed he could just have been cut loose.

 

outside of you, though, how many people REALLY thought Liriano would be far outperforming Loshe at this point in the year? good pick up by the buccos, for sure, but I think if they had the money to spend (they do, they just choose not to spend it) and the chance to sign Loshe over Liriano, they'd do it.

 

*edit - I realize you probably never actually predicted Liriano would be out performing Loshe, im not going through all the pages of this fantastic thread I started to check im just assuming, and taking the risk with that.

[TURBO]

The Pirates could have signed Lohse, they had as much chance as we did, they just made the right decision that giving up your number one pick to do so was a stupid, ridiculous, asinine thing to do.

 

We thought it was a good idea, and here we sit...

 

Man do I hate that signing more and more every freaking day.

[torts]

The Pirates could have signed Lohse, they had as much chance as we did, they just made the right decision that giving up your number one pick to do so was a stupid, ridiculous, asinine thing to do.

 

We thought it was a good idea, and here we sit...

 

Man do I hate that signing more and more every freaking day.

 

that had nothing to do with why they didnt sign Loshe, their #1 pick was protected. it had everything to do with spending money, which is something they do not do.

[brewcrewdue80]

The Pirates could have signed Lohse, they had as much chance as we did, they just made the right decision that giving up your number one pick to do so was a stupid, ridiculous, asinine thing to do.

 

We thought it was a good idea, and here we sit...

 

Man do I hate that signing more and more every freaking day.

 

that had nothing to do with why they didnt sign Loshe, their #1 pick was protected. it had everything to do with spending money, which is something they do not do.

 

Yes their #1 pick was protected but not their 2nd #1 pick.

Add to it, don't spend money but went and got Liriano, and...who was that Yankee Catcher again? Ah yes Russell Martin. Go figure he and Liriano are both having better seasons than they did in recent seasons. For Liriano it's Ever! Tack on AJ Burnetts continual winning battle against age and Pittsburgh sure knows how to find NL diamonds in the AL Rough.

[bill hAll Star]

Martin is cooling back to normal numbers. His OPS is at his career numbers but he's slugging higher than he has since his 2nd season in the bigs. Give him another month and he'll be back down to .240/.340/.400 on the season. He had a .900+ OPS opening month and has been back down in the .650s the last month and a half.

 

His slugging will probably drop even further, probably somewhere in between .340 and .400 as I would say PNC/NL Central fits right in between Dodger/NL West (.340) and Yankee/AL East(.400) effects on his slugging.

 

As for Liriano, I would have preferred him over Lohse (especially in Miller Park where I want to miss bats) but he will obviously cool a bit as well. That goes without saying but we'll see if he's just in one of his 5 game dominant streaks or he has really figured out how to control all of his pitches.

[DHonks]

just wanted to mention that Bedard and Liriano would have been nice bargain options. MNBrew and JJfanec...I may not be right very often, but I think this is a great reminder that we can't always sign a player based on what he did the previous year or two. If that's what teams did, Chris Carpenter would never have been a Cardinal after his crappy Toronto years.

[sheetskout]

Chris Carpenter was 27 years old when he was released by the Blue Jays.

[TigerUppercut]

Liriano was 28 when granted free agency.