Greinke traded to Angels for three prospects; Rangers nearly won the bidding (Latest: revisiting this trade in December 2015; post 481)

[Dollarbill13]

 

Does that include Ricky Weeks-esque defense too?

 

Only if he stays at shortstop

[SRB]

Anyone have an MLB comp for Segura?

I'm not a scout, but based on the 20HR/.290 AVG report earlier in this thread, and their minor league numbers, maybe upside of Jose Reyes? Of course that's the longshot, if he's merely average it's still a huge pickup.

[502 to Right]

This is a good haul for the Brewers under the circumstances. That said, I'm concerned about the scouts/scouting services that suggest that Segura's days at SS are numbered. If he can stick at SS then this is a great trade.

[3and2Fastball]

The 2012 Baseball Prospectus listed Jean Segura's comparables as Eduardo Nunez or Erick Aybar with a ceiling of: Robin Yount

[logan82]

Halo Heaven's take on Segura.

[danzig6767]

The key words in that bolded sentence are FEEL(or may) and future. Why look towards the future?? Why can't you win now and next year and the year after and the year after?? My whole point is....they should have NEVER been in a position to trade Zach to begin with, their record this season notwithstanding. He should have been signed to an extension last year already. The sooner you do it, and history shows this in ALL pro sports, the cheaper you get them. Look at Braun. The Brewers waited too long to try to resign Prince, and they waited too long to try to resign Zach.

 

There are only a handful of MLB teams that have the revenue streams necessary to buy enough major league talent to compete year-in and year-out.

 

Even that doesn't guarantee success, look at the Phillies this year.

 

Attanasio has clearly shown that he prefers a win now mentality and will spend as much as he can when he feels the team has a solid shot to make the playoffs, this is nothing like the Selig's operation. That said, he also is a man with enough common sense to grasp when situations don't go as he had hoped, so he had to act proactively.

 

Obviously both Mark and Doug wanted to sign Greinke, but if Zack made a decision that he wanted to explore free agency, Attanasio/Melvin couldn't just pout, keep Greinke, and pray that by some super slim chance Zack would change his mind and resign here.

[SRB]

This is a good haul for the Brewers under the circumstances. That said, I'm concerned about the scouts/scouting services that suggest that Segura's days at SS are numbered. If he can stick at SS then this is a great trade.

fwiw, I haven't seen any reports saying his defense is actually bad at SS. Sounds more like an as-he-fills-out thing, which is at least better than him not having the talent to play SS, imo.

[brewmann04]

This trade had to be Made Zack wanted test Fa.Anyone thinking we could have signed Prince is delusional.

Dm got us a good deal and everyone will be shocked to see him back with the crew in 2013.

[502 to Right]

This is a good haul for the Brewers under the circumstances. That said, I'm concerned about the scouts/scouting services that suggest that Segura's days at SS are numbered. If he can stick at SS then this is a great trade.

fwiw, I haven't seen any reports saying his defense is actually bad at SS. Sounds more like an as-he-fills-out thing, which is at least better than him not having the talent to play SS, imo.

 

 

From Baseball America:

 

His arm also grades as plus, which prompted the Angels to move Segura from second base to shortstop last year. His hands and throwing accuracy probably won't play at the position long-term. He has average range at both spots.

 

The Future: Despite his injuries, the Angels protected Segura on the 40-man roster in November. He could play shortstop as he climbs to Double-A, but most scouts expect him to man the keystone in the majors, and no later than 2013—if he stays healthy.

 

 

[GoToHelfaer]

Dm got us a good deal and everyone will be shocked to see him back with the crew in 2013.

 

How, financially, could the Brewers achieve this? Braun, Weeks, Hart, Gallardo and Ramirez count for over $46 million in payroll next year. Zack said no to 5 years, $100 million. If he said yes, that would be $66 million to six players.

 

Nineteen other roster spots would have to be filled with $13.75 million to sustain an $80 million payroll ($723,684 per player) or $23.75 million to sustain an $90 million payroll ($1.25 million per player).

 

Considering we have a serious bullpen deficiency and rotations questions (with or without Greinke), I don't see how the Brewers could put anything but the Houston Astros around that group of players.

[TooLiveBrew]

Aybar is, coincidentally (since he's an Angel), a pretty decent-looking comp for Segura as a hitter. I also mentioned Asdrubal Cabrera in the MiLB forum, but I'm only basing that off stats of the two players & the scouting notes on Segura's potential upside at the big-league level... not scouting.

 

Also, Mass Haas just linked, in the Link Report, to a Brew Crew Ball transcription of Doug Melvin's comments on the FSN-WI broadcast tonight. Included was the following, which really restores my faith a bit in DM's ... faith... in young players:

 

Well, Mark Rogers will be here tomorrow and he's going to pitch on Sunday. We believe in our young talent, we know there's going to be some bumps in the road when you go that path but it's in the best interest of the long term in the organization. So there will be some short term bumps but we're still a very talented club. And Zack told me that. He said there's still a lot of talent on this club. And while we've maybe had our bumps in the road with some late inning losses Zack liked the talent here and now we get some infusion of young talent coming along and a lot of pitching depth coming along so we're going to run some of them out there and see what we have. Who thought Mike Fiers would be doing what he's doing at this point? And we never thought Tyler Thornburg would be up here. Now Mark Rogers has had four out of five, our last report were a couple of wild performances, and he's ready. Wily Peralta over his last seven starts or so he had one walk, nine strikeout game last night. He struggled earlier but now the arrow's pointing up for Wily Peralta. Some of those people we're going to get a chance to see.

[jjfanec]

Aybar is, coincidentally (since he's an Angel), a pretty decent-looking comp for Segura as a hitter. I also mentioned Asdrubal Cabrera in the MiLB forum, but I'm only basing that off stats of the two players & the scouting notes on Segura's potential upside at the big-league level... not scouting.

 

Also, Mass Haas just linked, in the Link Report, to a Brew Crew Ball transcription of Doug Melvin's comments on the FSN-WI broadcast tonight. Included was the following, which really restores my faith a bit in DM's ... faith... in young players:

 

Well, Mark Rogers will be here tomorrow and he's going to pitch on Sunday. We believe in our young talent, we know there's going to be some bumps in the road when you go that path but it's in the best interest of the long term in the organization. So there will be some short term bumps but we're still a very talented club. And Zack told me that. He said there's still a lot of talent on this club. And while we've maybe had our bumps in the road with some late inning losses Zack liked the talent here and now we get some infusion of young talent coming along and a lot of pitching depth coming along so we're going to run some of them out there and see what we have. Who thought Mike Fiers would be doing what he's doing at this point? And we never thought Tyler Thornburg would be up here. Now Mark Rogers has had four out of five, our last report were a couple of wild performances, and he's ready. Wily Peralta over his last seven starts or so he had one walk, nine strikeout game last night. He struggled earlier but now the arrow's pointing up for Wily Peralta. Some of those people we're going to get a chance to see.

 

And most of the board rejoices as they read those words. Should be fun to watch the young guys pitch. Hopefully we can trade Wolf and open up another spot in the rotation

[fondybrewfan]

If you can't trade Wolf you might as well just cut him August 1st. Guys like Peralta or Thornburg need a shot starting the last month or two

[TooLiveBrew]

Man, it really seems like the Angels were more than willing to overpay for Greinke. At this point in the ZG-trade-saga, I feel like... I need a cigarette.

[Brewers ST920]

Zack Greinke just stated it is a "definite possibility" he could return to the Brewers next year. Take it as a grain of salt, or something meaningful. I found it encouraging he said something like that.

[3and2Fastball]

Zack Greinke just stated it is a "definite possibility" he could return to the Brewers next year. Take it as a grain of salt, or something meaningful. I found it encouraging he said something like that.

 

He genuinely loves it in Milwaukee. As others have mentioned in this thread and elsewhere, it really isn't likely that the Brewers would, or even could, put that much $$$ into one pitcher (and I will add, especially a pitcher with a 113 ERA+!)

[TooLiveBrew]

He also answered as to why he didn't re-sign with the Brewers by saying it was a "business decision". So unless the Brewers are able to make the kind of offer that will top what else is out there (aka ~$150M), don't hold your breath.

[yfinn6]

If I can take off the Brewer glasses and look at it as neutral as possible, it makes absolute sense for Greinke to test FA. Not just to get the most money - we don't know if that's what he wants - but just to be able to decide (between a couple of clubs) who he would prefer to play with. All of us would love to be able to do that in any job, but more importantly when you're deciding between 9 figure contracts.

[GoToHelfaer]

I did post a few spots up on the reason why I think Greinke is gone, but isn't it fun to speculate on the possibility?

 

Greinke has a high opinion of Milwaukee. Melvin has a high opinion of Greinke. I can't see Greinke going to certain high-paying markets because of their in-your-face media attitude. Perhaps the "business decision" was a gentlemans agreement to get some prospects for Greinke while this season was dead in the water and for Greinke to come back in the off-season. Probably not, but fun speculation none the less!

[SRB]

From Baseball America:

 

His arm also grades as plus, which prompted the Angels to move Segura from second base to shortstop last year. His hands and throwing accuracy probably won't play at the position long-term. He has average range at both spots.

 

The Future: Despite his injuries, the Angels protected Segura on the 40-man roster in November. He could play shortstop as he climbs to Double-A, but most scouts expect him to man the keystone in the majors, and no later than 2013—if he stays healthy.

Also from Baseball America:

Segura has a significantly higher offensive ceiling than Escobar, though he lacks the range and consistency to profile as more than an average defender at shortstop.

[danzig6767]

Man, it really seems like the Angels were more than willing to overpay for Greinke. At this point in the ZG-trade-saga, I feel like... I need a cigarette.

 

My guess is the Angels feel that they should end up having a good shot to sign Greinke. They have some big contracts coming off their books the next two seasons and fairly recently signed a huge new cable deal. So they easily could be in the position to give Zack the kind of money which would make Attanasio balk at. Not only that, Greinke could look at the Angels roster and feel confident that he'd be at least competing for a playoff berth each year.

 

I see the odds being pretty good that he signs an extension before the season ends.

[adambr2]

Barring a surprising big move at a veteran SS in free agency this year (and I don't think there are many goods ones this offseason, are there?) , I'm sure we fully intend on Segura playing SS for us. I would be fine with an average defensive SS. I wish it wasn't range he was giving up, but as long as everything else is good, we can live with it. JJ Hardy had very poor range, too.

[TooLiveBrew]

My guess is the Angels feel that they should end up having a good shot to sign Greinke. They have some big contracts coming off their books the next two seasons and fairly recently signed a huge new cable deal. So they easily could be in the position to give Zack the kind of money which would make Attanasio balk at. Not only that, Greinke could look at the Angels roster and feel confident that he'd be at least competing for a playoff berth each year.

 

I see the odds being pretty good that he signs an extension before the season ends.

I get that feeling too, but iirc the Braves were extremely confident that they'd be able to re-sign Mark Teixeira when they traded for him. However the situations are admittedly different... LAA seems to have Yankees-caliber cash to burn right now.

 

Plus, whether the Angels are able to extend ZG or not doesn't change the strong return the Brewers got for him.

[3and2Fastball]

The Angels & Greinke will be taking a good look at each other in these next few months. We'll see how Zach does. He wasn't exactly lights out in the playoffs last year. I think a lot of Brewers fans really overrate Greinke based on his stuff and his Cy Young season. I don't think he's anywhere close to as good as Hamels and while it is closer I don't think he's as good as Cain either....

 

He still could get a big payday based on the lack of great pitchers in free agency next year

[logan82]

JJ Hardy had very poor range, too.

Off topic but JJ had pretty good range because he had a good first step. He was slow but has great instincts.