Greinke traded to Angels for three prospects; Rangers nearly won the bidding (Latest: revisiting this trade in December 2015; post 481)

[Brewcrewin07]

Right, and that's EXACTLY my point. He didn't have to be. Just like Prince didn't have to be. Too often it seems, the Brewers wait entirely too long to try to re sign some of these guys, and then it makes it nearly impossible. If you have the "win now" mentality like Mark A does, then you do what you have to do to make sure that occurs consistently. Was it realistic to keep both Prince AND Greinke?? No...but absolutely NO REASON one of them shouldn't have been kept. That's not a "win now" mentality. That's small time mentality.

 

You realize many players want to hit FA so they can get the largest contract possible. Prince was NEVER going to sign long-term here unless we offered him something larger than he even ended up getting - which would have been terrible for us.

 

 

Would you have felt that way if they would have won a world series with Prince in the next 5 years or so??

[GoToHelfaer]

Looks to be a nice haul. Can't ask for much more than 3 top-10 prospects out of a system for a potential rental.

 

It's always depressing trading one of your top guys. While I don't see the Brewers as full season contenders in 2013, I think Attanasio will allow Melvin to be aggressive enough in the offseason for them to be entertaining.

 

Hopefully this franchise becomes better at developing pitching talent so we don't have to strip our farm system for arms like we did for Sabathia, Greinke and Marcum.

[trwi7]

This trade sucks. I wanted Paul Konerko!

[yfinn6]

 

Right, and that's EXACTLY my point. He didn't have to be. Just like Prince didn't have to be. Too often it seems, the Brewers wait entirely too long to try to re sign some of these guys, and then it makes it nearly impossible. If you have the "win now" mentality like Mark A does, then you do what you have to do to make sure that occurs consistently. Was it realistic to keep both Prince AND Greinke?? No...but absolutely NO REASON one of them shouldn't have been kept. That's not a "win now" mentality. That's small time mentality.

 

Your last two posts indicate someone who doesn't completely understand how a small market team needs to operate in order to prevent from a massive rebuild like what happened in the early 2000's.

[gregmag]

This seems to me like the kind of deal we all (well, most of us) have been hoping for, but I wasn't really sure it could happen. This is a real star-for-prospects barnburner. I know some folks have criticized DM for not valuing upside enough in trades, and this seems to be that kind of trade. Segura and Pena look like pretty good bets to make it in MLB and could be true frontline guys. Helweg is boom or bust.

 

Gotta go -- looking forward to reading more / saying more after my daughter falls asleep!

[paul253]

The Brewers have lost enough as a franchise the last 20 years, after a few years of success, now we have to go back to losing for at least a couple of years again??

 

And they were losing again this year. And they were going to continue losing with or without Greinke. I think you are the only person who doesn't understand the need to trade Greinke. He was offered a contract and didn't bite. Hopefully the Brewers make another run at him once the season ends but you know as well as the rest of us do that Milwaukee can't afford a $150 million contract. They did exactly what they need to do to remain relevant as a franchise.

[PKBadger]

The Brewers have lost enough as a franchise the last 20 years, after a few years of success, now we have to go back to losing for at least a couple of years again??

 

Let's say that Segura is ready to step in as our SS in 2013. We'd have a starting lineup of:

 

LF Braun

CF ? + Gomez (I'm assuming Morgan's gone)

RF Aoki

1B Hart

2B Weeks

SS Segura

3B Ramirez

C Lucroy (capably backed up by Maldonado)

 

and if they're able to bring back a healthy Marcum, there is the makings of a competent rotation with

 

Marcum

Gallardo

Fiers

Estrada

Peralta

Thornburg*

Narveson*

 

Plus, there should be some wiggle room with the payroll given that K-Rod is outta here.

 

In short, I think the Brewers can put a competitive team on the field next season. There's no reason to mope about this trade.

[NievesNoNO]

I'm very excited for this and I think it's a great, and necessary move.

 

Yet there is a part of me that for some reason, feels a bit of sadness -- not about the move itself...but just about the fact that we've turned into regular buyers, not sellers, and this almost feels like the end of an era in a way. We haven't seen a move like this for the Brewers in a long, long time, and it of course definitely signals the official white flag on the season, not that we needed an official one.

 

Don't get me wrong though -- absolutely a great move. Sure beats the supplementary draft pick.

 

Feel exactly the same way. Sounds like both pitchers can run it up close to 100. Better teach those kids some control before the kill somebody!

[Brewcrewin07]

Without star players, it makes it very hard to win consistently. Fans don't show up, eventually payroll drops, and your back in the same vicious cycle, you have been for so many years.

 

Without a farm system, you don't get star players without breaking the bank. For a team like the Brewers to compete, they need to make good decisions. Trading for Greinke was a good decision, as it helped them make the playoffs. Trading Grienke away for 3 of the Angels' top 10 prospects is also a good decision, since Zach's final 10 starts in 2012 were meaningless here in Milwaukee. The Brewers weren't going to the postseason with Greinke, despite how well he has pitched. It just wasn't coming together this year.

 

The Brewers are building up a core of players in AA that they feel will give them a chance to win in the future. The last time they had this many quality prospects at that level, they turned into Fielder, Weeks, Hart, etc. -- much of the core of the current roster.

 

I'm sure we'll all miss Zach (and hope that the Brewers try to bring him back next in free agency). This move puts the team in a better position to be competitive in the future than where they would have been if Greinke had pitched out the string and signed somewhere else, giving the team a single draft pick in return. It's about looking to the future.

 

The key words in that bolded sentence are FEEL(or may) and future. Why look towards the future?? Why can't you win now and next year and the year after and the year after?? My whole point is....they should have NEVER been in a position to trade Zach to begin with, their record this season notwithstanding. He should have been signed to an extension last year already. The sooner you do it, and history shows this in ALL pro sports, the cheaper you get them. Look at Braun. The Brewers waited too long to try to resign Prince, and they waited too long to try to resign Zach.

[jjfanec]

Would you have felt that way if they would have won a world series with Prince in the next 5 years or so??

 

So we were going to win the World Series with Prince and zero pitching? We had Prince and Braun together for years but it wasnt until we got pitching that we had a chance. But in our market we CANNOT afford Prince and a guy like Greinke. I am not a proponent of completely gutting our team as some are, but Fielder and Braun without pitching wasnt going to win us anything. We down have the farm system to make another Greinke trade.

[SRB]

His 2012 numbers are slightly concerning, but Hellweg is my new favorite prospect. Here's hoping he turns into Randy Johnson Jr.

[Oxy]

This is depressing. Great! I'm overjoyed, the Brewers got players to help their minor league system. Whoopie!! The Brewers have lost enough as a franchise the last 20 years, after a few years of success, now we have to go back to losing for at least a couple of years again?? Great. When you trade a player like Greinke, or lose a player like Prince in FA, you are losing star players. Star players help you win, they drive attendance, they drive merchandise sales etc etc. It's all relative. Fans want a winner. That's what makes them come out to the ball park. Without star players, it makes it very hard to win consistently. Fans don't show up, eventually payroll drops, and your back in the same vicious cycle, you have been for so many years.

 

It sucks being a Brewer fan tonight, and I don't think it's going to be a whole lot of fun the next couple years at least either. *sigh*

 

This offseason will determine if this is the "end of an era" or not. The offense basically weathered Prince's departure without too much trouble this year, but as has been analyzed ad nauseum, the bullpen pretty much ruined whatever chances the Brewers had. Next year, the offense looks to be the same or better if Weeks can bounce back and Aramis can keep producing. Also, there are a slew of young arms to come up and help the rotation and/or the bullpen. If Marcum can get healthy and we can re-sign him on the cheap, things will be looking pretty good next year. Obviously, if we make a run a Greinke things will look that much better, but this is still a decent team. If Fiers or one of the other youngsters step up, this is a better than decent team. Sign or trade for one veteran bullpen arm and see what happens.

[jjfanec]

07 - They tried to sign Fielder and he said no. What are they supposed to do when a guy wants to hit the open market? The same thing with Greinke. You do realize Melvin offered Prince a contract for a couple years right?

[3and2Fastball]

His 2012 numbers are slightly concerning, but Hellweg is my new favorite prospect. Here's hoping he turns into Randy Johnson Jr.

 

 

even if he turns into Kameron Loe 2.0 , he can help the team

 

I'm really thrilled about getting Segura, I think his bat has a high ceiling

[jjfanec]

The minor league link reports are going to be fun for the next couple months. I am excited to see what the new guys can do!

[Brewcrewin07]

Would you have felt that way if they would have won a world series with Prince in the next 5 years or so??

 

So we were going to win the World Series with Prince and zero pitching? We had Prince and Braun together for years but it wasnt until we got pitching that we had a chance. But in our market we CANNOT afford Prince and a guy like Greinke. I am not a proponent of completely gutting our team as some are, but Fielder and Braun without pitching wasnt going to win us anything. We down have the farm system to make another Greinke trade.

 

Only to lose that player in FA in another year or two after acquiring him. I LOVED the Greinke trade, and if the Brewers consistently do things like that on a yearly basis, I could live with it. But I betcha they won't.

[trwi7]

Why look towards the future?? Why can't you win now and next year and the year after and the year after??

 

Because Milwaukee isn't New York, Boston or Los Angeles.

[derflotr]

Why can't you win now and next year and the year after and the year after?? My whole point is....they should have NEVER been in a position to trade Zach to begin with, their record this season notwithstanding.

You cannot be serious.

[homer]

Doug just said that Segura is going to AA.

Oh. Great. [/blue]

 

At this point, who really cares? Tank the season and improve the draft position.

[jjfanec]

Would you have felt that way if they would have won a world series with Prince in the next 5 years or so??

 

So we were going to win the World Series with Prince and zero pitching? We had Prince and Braun together for years but it wasnt until we got pitching that we had a chance. But in our market we CANNOT afford Prince and a guy like Greinke. I am not a proponent of completely gutting our team as some are, but Fielder and Braun without pitching wasnt going to win us anything. We down have the farm system to make another Greinke trade.

 

Only to lose that player in FA in another year or two after acquiring him. I LOVED the Greinke trade, and if the Brewers consistently do things like that on a yearly basis, I could live with it. But I betcha they won't.

 

That was supposed to say we DONT have the farm system. The Brewers cant do something like that on a yearly basis because they dont have the farm system and very few teams do. Yes they lost Greinke but they also replaced him with 3 prospects. We get that you dont like prospects.

[yfinn6]

 

Only to lose that player in FA in another year or two after acquiring him. I LOVED the Greinke trade, and if the Brewers consistently do things like that on a yearly basis, I could live with it. But I betcha they won't.

 

The Brewers won't because they can't. They didn't have any prospects left in the system that could likely net a player of Greinke's caliber if they were in position to do so. They're not going to overpay for their players "just to keep them in Milwaukee" when they can be traded for a nice return like we saw today. This team doesn't have the payroll of the Yankees, Angels, Red Sox, etc.. so when fans complain that we never sign our players I usually just scratch my head.

 

We've resigned Braun, Hart, Weeks, Lucroy, Gallardo.. that's a good group of players. I really don't understand your gripe but you're entitled to your opinion. Just don't expect a lot of people around here to see your side of it because, frankly, I feel it's misguided.

[trwi7]

 

Really, can someone tell me why Bourjos is so highly valued by the Angels? Also, I know it's twitter but learn to freakin' type, Heyman.

[gregmag]

BTW, haven't seen this mentioned here -- Maysonet and Brock K. DFA'd.

[derflotr]

Just don't expect a lot of people around here to see your side of it because, frankly, I feel it's misguided.

Misguided? Ha! He proposes the Brewers trade for a Zack Greinke every year and resign the Zack Greinke to a long-term deal. Trade for and sign a superstar every year, win the World Series every year. Misguided? He's living in a fantasy world.

[yfinn6]

Just don't expect a lot of people around here to see your side of it because, frankly, I feel it's misguided.

Misguided? Ha! He proposes the Brewers trade for a Zack Greinke every year and resign the Zack Greinke to a long-term deal. Trade for and sign a superstar every year, win the World Series every year. Misguided? He's living in a fantasy world.

 

I was trying to keep it.. respectful.