Greinke traded to Angels for three prospects; Rangers nearly won the bidding (Latest: revisiting this trade in December 2015; post 481)

[Bombers]

Bump ... Just in case you were wondering what was said on bf.net last July. Seems like some were pretty high on Segura right from the start. Hats off to you. Kid looks awesome.

[Raw Biz]

Just rebrowsed a bit and I love how Brewmann04 kept insisting how shocked we would be when Greinke resigned with us. And obviously we all knew that that was not going to happen but he repeatedly insisted on it.

[markedman5]

I'm no major league scout but he sure looks like he can play shortstop to me.........

 

I also loved the "above average" speed comment.....lol......that is like saying Stanton has "above average" power....

[Patrick425]

If any coach can help Hellweg with his control issues, I'm excited about him as well. His last couple of outings have been rough though.

[Taylor Blue]

Browsing this thread and seeing the name "Cesar Izturis" just made me shudder. I love you, Jean Segura.

[MVP2110]

I think it is definately fair to say we won this trade. I would almost say since the trade Segura has outperformed Grienke. But definately was the smart trade to make

[adambr2]

I also recall someone here being very angry over this trade and saying we should have told the Angels that "we need Trout back in return for Greinke or they can pound sand".

[Thurston Fluff]

Getting someone as good as he appears for half a season of Greinke is awesome on it's own. Finding him at the one position we had no long term answer at is incredible. Nice job Doug and company.

[torts]

I think it is definately fair to say we won this trade. I would almost say since the trade Segura has outperformed Grienke. But definately was the smart trade to make

 

we won this trade the second the angels didnt re-sign Greinke.

[Raw Biz]

I think it is definately fair to say we won this trade. I would almost say since the trade Segura has outperformed Grienke. But definately was the smart trade to make

 

we won this trade the second the angels didnt re-sign Greinke.

 

I'd say we would have won the trade even without a resigning. Whoever Greinke signed with in the offseason should be treated differently because he basically had the choice of every team in the league (I realize this is unrealistic since there were only a few who could have afforded him). So we were still getting 6 years of control of Segura/Hellweg/Pena for a half season Greinke.

[RockCoCougars]

Would anybody trade Segura for Profar at this point? I certainly wouldn't.

[sveumrules]

I probably would. Profar is a full three years younger and a switch hitter. Neither has enough of a major league track record to draw any solid conclusions from and while their minor league numbers are similar Profar's OBP hasn't been as BA driven as Segura's. Profar is 20 and has already had a full, productive season in AA. When Segura was 20 he was just starting out in the Midwest League.

[lcbj68c]

I would as well. The only concern is the entire black hole at SS in our organization. Atleast at 2B, we have the possibility of Gennett.

[Oxy]

I probably would. Profar is a full three years younger and a switch hitter. Neither has enough of a major league track record to draw any solid conclusions from and while their minor league numbers are similar Profar's OBP hasn't been as BA driven as Segura's. Profar is 20 and has already had a full, productive season in AA. When Segura was 20 he was just starting out in the Midwest League.

 

A. I don't trust the ages of any Latin American players.

 

B. When players have similar OBP, the one with the higher BA is the more valuable player. I understand that having a good eye is an important skill to have, but by all accounts Segura swings at the right pitches.

[Dollarbill13]

Would anybody trade Segura for Profar at this point? I certainly wouldn't.

 

Keep in mind that Segura is carrying a .417 BABIP with 8 infield hits so far (his IFH% is roughly double Ichiro's career figure). Something tells me those numbers will regress.

[sveumrules]

In regards to age both players are from Latin countries and there have been far more cases of fraud from DR (Segura) than there have been from Curaçao (Profar). So if anything that is a point in Profar's favor.

 

If two guys have similar OBP/SLG, as Segura and Profar do in the minors, I'll take the guy with the better walk rate as it is far less prone to variation/luck than is BABIP. The guy with the lower average will also have better power as he doesn't have a bunch of singles propping up his SLG.

[Kelbysdaddy]

Looking back through the thread, its kinda funny the brewers got segura because Texas refused to trade olt (who is hitting .147 and already has struck out 30 times in AAA). Pretty nice how things work out.

[StearnsFTW]

Would anybody trade Segura for Profar at this point? I certainly wouldn't.

 

Yes.

 

But I still love Segura.

[TooLiveBrew]

Yeah, Profar for Segura is a complete no-brainer.

[brewcrewdue80]

Okay read the thread. Wasn't on BF.net til this offseason I believe. Anyway Up to about page 13/14 it's about Segura. 15-18 are waste of your time. 19-23 are basically Grienke deals/outcomes/FA market and what not.

 

Most of this was super positive on Segura. And why not? SS had no real positives coming in the organization.

 

To remind the Rangers Deal, Justin Grimm,Leury Garcia, and Cody Buckell. Others, and I'd have been included, called for Perez and or Olt.

At this point it is looking like Segura alone beats any and all combined of the Rangers offer. From the Angels side of it, How bad are they missing Segura right now? Aybar has missed games on DL. Grienke didn't get them to the Playoffs. If this was done from the Brewers side and we got Grienke for Segura+ then missed the Playoffs and see Segura take off?? Wow, wouldn't you just question your fandom for Milw? Now, Angels have Trout/Hamilton/Pujols and such so it's a wonder if Angels fans even know how well Segura is doing and that he was in their organization. That Trout High for them sure ain't coming down for at least another 8years...if not longer.

Anyway, this deal...can we call it a success already? The Pitchers are questionable more and more expecially Pena more BBs than Ks at AA and Hellweg, still BBs at a high rate.

It's outcomes like this that you see all the time that makes me wonder why the club hadn't traded away a Hart/Weeks already? and I recall ARam being mentioned in trade rumors. If you can save that much money and find AS potential with 6years team control at a cost less than 1year for these players, Why not make these trades?

[Kelbysdaddy]

If hellweg or pena do anything productive its just a bonus at this point. Segura for 10 greinke starts was a total steal itself.

[Roderick]

If hellweg or pena do anything productive its just a bonus at this point. Segura for 10 greinke starts was a total steal itself.

 

Not that it still isn't a huge steal, but it would be 10 starts of Greinke and a compensation pick for Segura+.

[Oxy]

Anyway, this deal...can we call it a success already? The Pitchers are questionable more and more expecially Pena more BBs than Ks at AA and Hellweg, still BBs at a high rate.

It's outcomes like this that you see all the time that makes me wonder why the club hadn't traded away a Hart/Weeks already? and I recall ARam being mentioned in trade rumors. If you can save that much money and find AS potential with 6years team control at a cost less than 1year for these players, Why not make these trades?

 

It depends how many wins your current ballclub is expected to have at the end of the year. The point of playing the game is to make the playoffs--so if you are going to do that or very well might do that it seems silly to just trade away your good veterans. And scouting is obviously not exactly a science.

 

It would have been great to trade Fielder a few years back. I would think he would've gotten a return similar to Greinke's. I don't think GMs are willing to part with top caliber prospects for the likes of a Hart, ARam or Weeks though. Not that you couldn't still trade those guys for mid-level prospects--but that makes it even harder to do if you have a decent chance to make the playoffs with those kinds of guys.

 

So far, we got really lucky with the Segura deal. Can't count on that every time.

[HiAndTight]

Yeah, Profar for Segura is a complete no-brainer.

 

Absolutely. I've been extremely bullish on Profar since well before the trade last year. I proposed actually giving up Greinke AND K-Rod or if need be Axford(when he was going well again) for Profar and many thought that was ridiculous.

 

I see Profar as being a transcendent player. The premier SS for the next 15 years potentially. He a switch hitter with power already at 6'0 165, speed, a cannon for an arm, and VERY good defense who also has a good eye and can draw walks.

 

I think Segura is a great player and I am on board with locking him up to a long term deal as early as next year or this off-season to buy out a couple free agency years as we did with Braun. I've seen enough of him and he passes every eye test. Quick hands, good gap power, very good speed, he has been surprisingly good at short(makes you wonder why you ever put him at 2nd to begin with).

 

But I'd also take Evan Longoria over Ryan Zimmerman. And I think that's a close analogy to the types of players each are going to be relative to their position.

 

Having a hitter who could put up a line of .300/.385/.450 with 20 HR's, 40 SB's and play great defense at short is a game changer and as highly as I think of Segura, I don't think he has the upside that Profar does, nor the floor. Nor does he have the injury history of Segura. That certainly isn't a huge factor, but it's just another check in Segura's collumn.

[HiAndTight]

Okay read the thread. Wasn't on BF.net til this offseason I believe. Anyway Up to about page 13/14 it's about Segura. 15-18 are waste of your time. 19-23 are basically Grienke deals/outcomes/FA market and what not.

 

Most of this was super positive on Segura. And why not? SS had no real positives coming in the organization.

 

To remind the Rangers Deal, Justin Grimm,Leury Garcia, and Cody Buckell. Others, and I'd have been included, called for Perez and or Olt.

At this point it is looking like Segura alone beats any and all combined of the Rangers offer. From the Angels side of it, How bad are they missing Segura right now? Aybar has missed games on DL. Grienke didn't get them to the Playoffs. If this was done from the Brewers side and we got Grienke for Segura+ then missed the Playoffs and see Segura take off?? Wow, wouldn't you just question your fandom for Milw? Now, Angels have Trout/Hamilton/Pujols and such so it's a wonder if Angels fans even know how well Segura is doing and that he was in their organization. That Trout High for them sure ain't coming down for at least another 8years...if not longer.

Anyway, this deal...can we call it a success already? The Pitchers are questionable more and more expecially Pena more BBs than Ks at AA and Hellweg, still BBs at a high rate.

It's outcomes like this that you see all the time that makes me wonder why the club hadn't traded away a Hart/Weeks already? and I recall ARam being mentioned in trade rumors. If you can save that much money and find AS potential with 6years team control at a cost less than 1year for these players, Why not make these trades?

 

How often does a prospect who hasn't played above A ball and is moved over from 2nd base to SS end up becoming a sensational defender at short, and a exceptional offensive player?

 

I DESPISE the "prospects are just that, prospects," line when people talk about trading proven players for prospects, but you've now gone and taken it a step further suggesting, (paraphrasing)'well, if we got a player like Segura for Greinke, why not trade high priced veterans to teams for their young stars as well.'

 

We got lucky on Segura. Or you can say we hit on Segura. He could have ended up hitting around .200 this year and struggled defensively and then we'd be hoping that Hellweg would develop into a frontline pitcher in order to justify the trade.

 

And we're trying to win. Now I've advocated in the past trading Corey Hart. At one point when Bumgarner was rumored to be available, but if you're attempting to draw fans and bring players to the park, you can't just trade your best offensive players not named Braun. And if you do, you're asking teams to take back a lot of money for a guy like Aram in particular, but also Weeks. Teams don't get into bidding wars for position players in-season like they do for starting pitching.

 

So for a lot of reasons. But again, the biggest two is because if teams know a player is going to give them 6 years of "AS potential for that much less money," why would THEY do it, and the demand isn't as strong for those players.

 

You want to trade for another top prospect and a couple of elite young arms, Gallardo would be more likely. You't get higher prosepcts back, but even then you might not get a player who ends up as good as it APPEARS Segura will be.