Greinke traded to Angels for three prospects; Rangers nearly won the bidding (Latest: revisiting this trade in December 2015; post 481)

[gregmag]

Having continued to read everything people are throwing out about these guys, I still haven't seen any persuasive reason to assume Segura won't stick at shortstop. Of course he might not stick at shortstop. But I think it's overreaching to assume that a 22 year-old who's relatively new to the position, doesn't lack any obvious physical attributes for the position, and isn't on any kind of a developmental vector that suggests he'll "outgrow" the position, won't be able to play the position for at least several years. In any event, he'll get a fair chance to succeed or fail, because obviously the team wants him to stick.

 

Also -- this is not a rhetorical question, I'm asking because I don't know -- is it clear that a cf is more valuable than / doesn't need to hit as much as a 3b? This has always been the point of defensive spectrum analysis that I've found most difficult, because you're moving across skill sets. It seems to me that the offensive demands of those two positions might be fairly close. There seem at least to be some plausible situations -- groundball pitching staff, capable corner of's and/or weak ss -- when a 3b would be more valuable to a team. But maybe the incidence of offensive talent at 3b is clearly and constantly superior to the talent at cf. I'm just wondering.

[miggs721]

Rosenthal Just tweeted this:

 

Source: RHPs Grimm, Buckel top pieces in #Rangers’ Greinke offer. #Brewers valued SS (Segura) and to walk away from that need wanted Perez

[PrinceEatMeat]

I didn't get a chance to read up on these guys until this morning, but I love this trade. Doug did a great job in getting the best package he could. Got the SS he wanted, and two high ceiling pitching prospects. I'm very excited about it.

[jjfanec]

Rosenthal Just tweeted this:

 

Source: RHPs Grimm, Buckel top pieces in #Rangers’ Greinke offer. #Brewers valued SS (Segura) and to walk away from that need wanted Perez

 

Grimm and Buckel are really nice arms but I like the Angels offer better

[miggs721]

That AA SS for Texas would prob be included as well, Luerys Garcia, but Segura is a much better prospect at the position

[BrewCrew26]

I saw Segura a few years back with Cedar Rapids, he had a very explosive bat in the series I saw him. I'd say the Brewers got a great deal in this trade. Also now that Trout is up Segura was the #1 prospect in the Angels organization.

[narwhalattack]

Seems like most of the guys in Bullpen Banter approve of the trade.

http://bullpenbanter.com/brewers-cash-in-on-greinke-but-did-the-strike-gold/

 

Only Sussman seems to be cynical about what the Brewers got out of the trade.

[benji]

Sounds like Segura's bat has much more pop than A. Escobar, but his defense is not as good. I think the Brewers/Melvin prefer that trade. I think 1 1/2 years of Zack and the 3 prospects more than make up for what we gave (as long as the pitchers develop command).

[LouisEly]

"If you can't trade Wolf you might as well just cut him August 1st. Guys like Peralta or Thornburg need a shot starting the last month or two"

 

Slightly off topic, but Wolf is a guy with his salary and production who could easily get through waivers in August. Looking at Wolf's 2009-2011 splits, his best month is September and August is his 3rd best month. Historically he has been better in the 2nd half. A few more starts like his last two and someone might be willing to part with a prospect in August for him.

[rluzinski]

This is what tangotiger uses for positional adjustment estimates:

 

+12.5 C +7.5 SS +2.5 2B/3B/CF -7.5 LF/RF -12.5 1B -22.5 DH

 

That puts 2B and 3B as equal. My mistake.

[splitterpfj]

The more I look at this trade, the more I like it. I'm not convinced either pitcher will make it as a starter, but I think, both have a good shot at sticking in the major league bullpen, which would be fine with me.

 

I like how Doug played this, the SS from the Angels was clearly better than the SS from Texas, so he told Texas they had to up the pitcher on their side to Perez, which they refused.

 

Good enough, two decent pitching prospects and the best position player either team would give, at a position of need.

[TooLiveBrew]

A friend sent me this link which talks about the trade. Very nice analysis of all three players the Brewers got back:

 

http://www.bloguin.com/theoutsidecorner/2012-articles/analyzing-the-zack-grienke-trade.html

Segura has all the tools to be an above average defensive major league shortstop, but lacks that "it" factor. You know, the one that makes Derek Jeter look so graceful on his jump throws. It isn't athleticism, it's more grace than anything. Segura currently lacks that, but in a few years he may have it.

That, right there, is when I stopped reading the analysis. Well that, and the weird, 'Hellweg is totally 7' tall man, I seen 'im.'

[narwhalattack]

The more I look at this trade, the more I like it. I'm not convinced either pitcher will make it as a starter, but I think, both have a good shot at sticking in the major league bullpen, which would be fine with me.

 

I like how Doug played this, the SS from the Angels was clearly better than the SS from Texas, so he told Texas they had to up the pitcher on their side to Perez, which they refused.

 

Good enough, two decent pitching prospects and the best position player either team would give, at a position of need.

 

 

I actually believe Hellweg will make it as a starter. He's actually done better as a starter than a reliever, and he has smooth mechanics to pair with his upper-90s fastball. Also, from what I'm reading, his change up seems to be usable. He also has an above average slider to round out his arsenal, so there's that. I think he has a chance to be a good #2 starter.

[SRB]

The more I look at this trade, the more I like it. I'm not convinced either pitcher will make it as a starter, but I think, both have a good shot at sticking in the major league bullpen, which would be fine with me.

 

I like how Doug played this, the SS from the Angels was clearly better than the SS from Texas, so he told Texas they had to up the pitcher on their side to Perez, which they refused.

 

Good enough, two decent pitching prospects and the best position player either team would give, at a position of need.

 

 

I actually believe Hellweg will make it as a starter. He's actually done better as a starter than a reliever, and he has smooth mechanics to pair with his upper-90s fastball. Also, from what I'm reading, his change up seems to be usable. He also has an above average slider to round out his arsenal, so there's that. I think he has a chance to be a good #2 starter.

 

Don't forget his curveball, rated Best Curveball in the Angels organization by BA pre-2012.

[And That]

Somebody asked earlier in the thread... Segura's first name is pronounced like it looks, exactly like "Gene."

[TooLiveBrew]

Somebody asked earlier in the thread... Segura's first name is pronounced like it looks, exactly like "Gene."

What about the surname -- 'Seh-g-yoo-ra'? 'Seh-goo-ra'?

[Funketown]

Somebody asked earlier in the thread... Segura's first name is pronounced like it looks, exactly like "Gene."

What about the surname -- 'Seh-g-yoo-ra'? 'Seh-goo-ra'?

 

Seggy.

[And That]

What about the surname -- 'Seh-g-yoo-ra'? 'Seh-goo-ra'?

The second one, though the first two letters are pronounced closer to "say".

[TooLiveBrew]

Thanks Toby. And thanks Funke, that made me chuckle.

[PKBadger]

Somebody asked earlier in the thread... Segura's first name is pronounced like it looks, exactly like "Gene."

 

Sweet. I had already planned on referring to him as "Jean Jean, the Dancing Machine".

[TooLiveBrew]

I just posted this in today's Link Report, but I figured it would be relevant here, too:

 

per the Stars' twitter account..

 

Segura is in the starting lineup tonight, hitting 2nd.

 

I sent a tweet asking if Pena will be the SP today; hopefully I'll get an answer on that soon.

Jean Segura making his Brewers organization debut this afternoon.

 

Ariel Pena would be pitching on regular rest today, but no word yet whether or not he'll make the start.

 

Johnny Hellweg's next regular day to start would be Monday.

[TooLiveBrew]

Pena will not be starting today, per the Stars' twitter account:

 

no, LHP @danmeadows35 will be starting tonight. Rest of rotation is still in the air. Will know more tomorrow.

[Team Canada]

Reading about Greinke's tough luck loss today reminded me -he never lost a home game in his time as a Brewer. I wonder what the record is.

[splitterpfj]

From a rock-solid source...

 

The Rangers nearly won the bidding, Doug Melvin really liked pitchers Cody Buckel, and Justin Grimm, who were offered with a third player. In the end, it was very close, Doug went with the Angels' offer because Segura fills the huge hole the organization had at SS.

 

Reading between the lines, it was the better SS and solid pitchers, or the better arms with the lesser third player...Doug took the SS.

 

Since the team finally has a string of arms coming through the system, and a total mess at SS, I don't blame Doug one bit. When you look back on this in future years, remember the names Cody Buckel and Justin Grimm...it was one offer or the other.

 

Edit: I haven't confirmed this, but I've seen reports that the third player was Leury Garcia. Garcia has been moved to 2B by the Rangers, but that's only because they have Andrus and Profar ahead of him - he was signed as a SS and he has the arm to cover it. Garcia is a small man, listed at 5' 7" 153 lbs. Garcia is only 20 so things could still change, but to this point, he's a low OBP, no power guy with speed - he simply is not in Segura's class as a hitter.

[whizkid]

Reading about Greinke's tough luck loss today reminded me -he never lost a home game in his time as a Brewer. I wonder what the record is.

 

Greinke, acquired for Double-A right-handers Ariel Pena and Johnny Hellweg, was prevented from becoming the third pitcher in major league history to win 20 consecutive home decisions. Pittsburgh's Ray Kremer won 23 straight from 1926-27 and the Yankees' Lefty Grove had 20 in a row from 1938-41. Greinke's previous home loss was with Kansas City on July 26, 2010, when Minnesota beat the Royals 19-1.

 

"I knew I had a bunch of them in Milwaukee, but I didn't know how many," Greinke said. "It was a pretty lucky streak and a lot of good things happened that were out of my control."

 

http://scores.espn.go.com/mlb/recap?gameId=320729103