Time to trade Gallardo?

[Oldcity]

Unless someone is willing to pay equal to his value from a year or so ago, I don't see a reason to move Gallardo. The Brewers might as well cross their fingers that his velocity dip goes away instead of selling for .40 on the dollar. Hope he pitches well and trade him in the off-season, unless someone panics and blows you away.

[Jose Cardenal1]

Because of Tim Hudson's injury I looked at his career stats. He has had a really nice consistent career with the exception of one outlier of a season. In 2006 (at age 30/31) he made 35 starts with a 4.86 ERA. He got hit often and hard that year with no warning...and then returned back to a low to mid 3's ERA pitcher.

 

Could it be that 2013 is Yo's outlier year?

[brewmann04]

Gallardo performance today almost guarantee that he will be a Brewer in 2014.

[82brewcrew11]

This ship has sailed this year, me thinks. It could be an outlier, some talk about the WBC taking a toll. The problem I have is that he has been on a downward trend for three or four years now. Lots of innings on that arm so it could just as easily be the beginning of the end.

[JackNicholson1974]

I honestly think the Brewers should find a way to shut him down for the rest of the season, let his arm get fresh. Lots of innings on that arm.

[reillymcshane]

This ship has sailed this year, me thinks. It could be an outlier, some talk about the WBC taking a toll. The problem I have is that he has been on a downward trend for three or four years now. Lots of innings on that arm so it could just as easily be the beginning of the end.

What happened with regard to the WBC? I've seen that mentioned for a few players. I guess I just didn't pay much attention. Was it that players didn't get any playing time? What?

 

thanks.

[reillymcshane]

I honestly think the Brewers should find a way to shut him down for the rest of the season, let his arm get fresh. Lots of innings on that arm.

Not a bad idea. He certainly seems like he's not a full strength. You're right, he's thrown a lot of pitches the last 4-5 years.

[splitterpfj]

Read post 132.

 

viewtopic.php?f=66&t=29779&start=120

[brewmann04]

I would skip his next turn and give it to TT and give the Kid a few starts.

[paul253]

Way to help out the ole trade value Yo.

[brewmann04]

I think we can almost close this Thread.

[LouisEly]

He will very likely pass through waivers in August, extending his trade deadline to August 31st.

 

All it takes is a key injury (just look at what happened to Hudson) to the right team with a desperate owner/GM, and you never know what will happen.

[brewmann04]

Their really has to be a team real desperate for that to happen.

[brewcrewdue80]

I think we can almost close this Thread.

 

 

Yeah, I'm almost thinking the thread should be listed as Send Down Gallardo?

 

Yo's season is looking like 80% of Ricky Romero's of last season From being a good pitcher to all the signs of wondering and disappointment in that Romero is done. Yovani may be on his way to being done.

 

I guess suggesting sending him down is harsh but it's probably time to consider in to the bullpen the remainder of the season. How about Closer? Maybe he finds some added velocity ala Wade Davis last season out of the Bullpen that makes him effective again? Meanwhile, the team trades off Henderson/Axford and comes to terms that at least for 11.25mil next season they just have an expensive Closer like Papelbon.

 

Now of course, the genius in that idea is probably far over the Brewers FO heads. But hey, what if Yovani succeed's from Trade Deadline to Trade Deadline? Papelbon is a wanted man that's not on the market for closer. That could be where Yo becomes with a rich team even considering picking up Yo's option.

[gregmag]

Just to temper the general depression about Gallardo -- he's having an off year. It's possible he's starting a permanent decline, but based on past experience it's more likely he'll substantially bounce back. First, he could just be fatigued from the WBC and/or general wear and tear, which means his velocity could rebound. Second, he could be experiencing the kind of adjustment stress that a lot of pitchers have in their late 20s when they lose some velocity and have to rethink their approaches. He has been very good in the past, and as far as we know he's healthy. His immediate trade value has tanked to the point where we're almost certainly better off keeping him, but that could work out fine.

[nate82]

I had a dream last night and Gallardo was traded to the Blue Jays for Lawrie.

[igor67]

I'd concur that Gallardo will likely make it through waivers in a week or so and a hot streak of 3-4 starts could easily make him very attractive in August. Even the mighty Verlander is scuffling a bit this year. Guys with track records can change attitudes pretty quickly, I have no idea whether or not it is likely, but it is far from impossible. Similarly Aramis could turn it on and find himself the big bat on the market.

[JohnBriggs12]

Just to temper the general depression about Gallardo -- he's having an off year. It's possible he's starting a permanent decline, but based on past experience it's more likely he'll substantially bounce back. First, he could just be fatigued from the WBC and/or general wear and tear, which means his velocity could rebound. Second, he could be experiencing the kind of adjustment stress that a lot of pitchers have in their late 20s when they lose some velocity and have to rethink their approaches. He has been very good in the past, and as far as we know he's healthy. His immediate trade value has tanked to the point where we're almost certainly better off keeping him, but that could work out fine.

 

These are my thoughts exactly. Yes he has a lot of innings on his arm, but he's still only 27. Even a modest bounce back and he's still very useful if not ace material. If he reverts to his previous form, then he's going to still have very good value next year, that's assuming that the Brewers are out of contention of course. I do think the Brewers need to monitor his work load the rest of the year. I wouldn't shut him down just yet, but an extra day or two of rest, and once the rosters expand and they want to look at Nelson and Hellweg, give Yo the rest.

[TheCrew07]

Yes he has a lot of innings on his arm, but he's still only 27. Even a modest bounce back and he's still very useful if not ace material.

 

"Very useful" sure, "Ace" never in his career.

 

I really liked Gallardo as a pitcher coming through the minors and as a pitcher for the Brewers, but he never took that next step up. His innings per start never increased, in fact the opposite is happening and he never had a big enough arm to be an ace but now his velocity is declining at an alarming rate for his age as well.

 

I don't see the WBC as any kind of logical explanation for his velocity loss. Sustained velocity loss is something mechanical, something physical, or an injury.

 

Yo has always nibbled too much, which pumps up his pitch count and limits his over-all effectiveness. He could certainly attempt to refocus himself as a control pitcher, but he's never had pinpoint control in his career. The best hope I see for him is that maybe he'll get a new off-season conditioning program and come back with greater velocity next season.

[Invader3K]

I hate to say it, but that start yesterday had me thinking "He's looking not so much like the Ben Sheets replacement we hoped for, and more like the next Jeff Suppan."

 

I know he isn't that bad, but he's been really disappointing overall this year. I think the smart thing for the Brewers to do at this point might be to hold onto him, hope he finishes the year strong, and then either trade him this winter or simply keep him for next season. Then you look at trading him if the team is out of contention and he's re-established his value.

[TURBO]

Is there any chance that he has an alcohol addiction, and that has contributed to his horrible, awful, disappointing, sucky season?

 

It could be a combination of his alcohol problems and overuse in the WBC... Maybe he is just having personal issues that are spilling over to the field.

 

Hopefully next year he turns things around, because I just don't see trading him for anything valuable to our future at this point.

[PrinceEatMeat]

Is there any chance that he has an alcohol addiction, and that has contributed to his horrible, awful, disappointing, sucky season?

 

It could be a combination of his alcohol problems and overuse in the WBC... Maybe he is just having personal issues that are spilling over to the field.

 

Hopefully next year he turns things around, because I just don't see trading him for anything valuable to our future at this point.

 

That's not far-fetched in my opinion. There very well could be something to that. I think the WBC for sure had an impact. I think he'll come back out throwing better next year with all of this behind him, and a normal preparation for the season. I don't see him even ending up with much trade value this offseason. I think it's almost gotten to the point where they'll just have to let it play out until next year's deadline to see where he's at. I don't see him pitching well enough the rest of this year to gain his trade value back.

[reillymcshane]

Yo have thrown the 9th most pitches in baseball over the last five years. He's got a lot of miles on his arm.

 

More than half of the top 10 pitchers on that list have also experienced similar some sort of reduced effectiveness: Cain, Lincecum, Jimenez, Sabathia, Lester (as well as Yo).

 

It should be noted that these guys didn't necessarily get hurt - but they simply have not been as effective.

 

Verlander, Kershaw, King Felix and Shields have stayed pretty consistent.

 

I guess the point is that throwing 15,000+ pitches over the past five years may simply be taking a toll on Yo's arm.

[danzig6767]

Yes he has a lot of innings on his arm, but he's still only 27. Even a modest bounce back and he's still very useful if not ace material.

 

"Very useful" sure, "Ace" never in his career.

 

I really liked Gallardo as a pitcher coming through the minors and as a pitcher for the Brewers, but he never took that next step up. His innings per start never increased, in fact the opposite is happening and he never had a big enough arm to be an ace but now his velocity is declining at an alarming rate for his age as well.

 

I don't see the WBC as any kind of logical explanation for his velocity loss. Sustained velocity loss is something mechanical, something physical, or an injury.

 

Yo has always nibbled too much, which pumps up his pitch count and limits his over-all effectiveness. He could certainly attempt to refocus himself as a control pitcher, but he's never had pinpoint control in his career. The best hope I see for him is that maybe he'll get a new off-season conditioning program and come back with greater velocity next season.

 

Yea, while his velocity has dipped a some, i see his lack of command of offspeed pitches being as big or bigger problem. Hanging way to many sliders and curves leading to lots of hard hit balls vs getting a swing and miss. Either that or he'll miss so badly with the offspeed pitches that hitters simply take them, forcing Yo to throw that 90-91mph fastball.

 

Gallardo has never had as good of stuff or command as Sheets, but both relied mainly on a fastball/curve combo when they were pitching well. When Yo struggles to command his curve though, he tends to become very hittable given his slider isn't a plus pitch as his curve can be when it's on. That Padres game looked to be a prime example. I only viewed the Squeeze Play broadcast, but their hitters were regularly hitting hanging sliders and curves really hard, even on outs. His fastball just isn't good enough to survive a lack of command of the secondary pitches.

[torts]

Yovani Gallardo -- Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports (on Twitter) reports that Gallardo has been placed on waivers by the Brewers. The starter drew interest this summer as a player who could help not just for 2013, but beyond, as he is under contract for $11.25MM next season with a $13MM club option for 2015. Gallardo is having a down year, but he has had two strong starts against the Reds this month since coming off of the DL. For his career, Gallardo owns a 3.76 ERA with 8.9 K/9 and 3.5 BB/9.