King Felix

[jjfanec]

I am not purposing we should trade for him but I am wondering why on earth Seattle refuses to make him available for trade. Their division is stacked and they are not going to be competitive for another year or two. Felix is amazing and could demand a ransom. I know they are young but their lineup is terrible. They have one guy with over 100 AB who has an OPS over .761. That is insane. Their young bats in Ackley, Smoak, and Montero have all disappointed and their top prospects are pitchers.

 

I know he isnt a Brewer and isnt someone we could land but I just dont get why he is still on Seattle's team. Maybe they are waiting until the winter

[paul253]

I wonder if Texas would give up Profar for Felix? I know division trades don't happen much but that seems like a deal that could benefit both teams. And actually, with him being locked up for so long I'd bet Seattle could get Profar plus something for Felix. I'd definitely consider it if I were Seattle.

[SRB]

Because they aren't dumb like the Marlins and actually want people to show up at games.

[3and2Fastball]

yeah I don't get it either. He's an elite pitcher, certainly better than Greinke, and would bring back a huge haul.

[paul253]

Because they aren't dumb like the Marlins and actually want people to show up at games.

 

By finishing in last place every year?

[jjfanec]

Because they aren't dumb like the Marlins and actually want people to show up at games.

 

He pitches one out of every 5 games. Their attendance has gone down the last 6 years. Trying to keep fans in the seats by holding on to your lone superstar is a bad move. Trading that superstar for 3-4 player who could help you become competitive again is a good idea

[TheCrew07]

It's not about attendance, it's about team building.

 

Seattle has 3 of the top starting pitching prospects in all baseball, and all 3 will pitch for Seattle in 2013. Hultzen is already in AAA and will likely start the 2013 season in the rotation. Walker and Paxton will start in AAA next season and see the rotation at some point even if only in Sept, but all 3 will definitely be in the rotation by 2014.

 

You don't need to develop your position players, you need starting pitching, they will have starting pitching and that will be enough, they'll win games. They can plug their position player holes through FA.

 

You don't trade Felix because with him + the 3 prospects you get a young rotation headlined by an elite vet like the Rays have had.

[SRB]

It's about fan perception, not that fans only want to watch Hernandez pitch. If you trade every star player, people are going to stop showing up or even following the team. That's why the Marlins franchise is such a joke.

 

If I were a Mariners fan I would want them to trade Hernandez, but must fans don't care about prospects.

[jjfanec]

It's not about attendance, it's about team building.

 

Seattle has 3 of the top starting pitching prospects in all baseball, and all 3 will pitch for Seattle in 2013. Hultzen is already in AAA and will likely start the 2013 season in the rotation. Walker and Paxton will start in AAA next season and see the rotation at some point even if only in Sept, but all 3 will definitely be in the rotation by 2014.

 

You don't need to develop your position players, you need starting pitching, they will have starting pitching and that will be enough, they'll win games. They can plug their position player holes through FA.

 

You don't trade Felix because with him + the 3 prospects you get a young rotation headlined by an elite vet like the Rays have had.

 

Their pitching would have to be phenomenal to overcome that terrible offense. It is great they have 3 of the top pitching prospects in the game but to assume all three are going to pan out is probably a false assumption. Felix is currently in the 2nd year of a 5 year deal. They wont compete next year. That would give them 2-years of Felix with a team capable of maybe finishing in the top 2 in their division.

 

The Rays when they have been a top team also had bats performing really well like Longoria, Upton, and others.

[jjfanec]

It's about fan perception, not that fans only want to watch Hernandez pitch. If you trade every star player, people are going to stop showing up or even following the team. That's why the Marlins franchise is such a joke.

 

If I were a Mariners fan I would want them to trade Hernandez, but must fans don't care about prospects.

 

But fans are not going to games right now. Like I said their attendance has dropped the last 5 years. They are 26th in the league right now. I would assume people are not following them that closely in general. Obviously it would hurt them right now but keeping Felix on a bad team then losing him in a few years to FA if he actually wants to go to a winner will hurt as even more

[brains and braun]

Some of the young hitting prospects (Montero) will likely turn it around. Then sign a couple veterans like TLB said, maybe in the ARam mold, and you've got yourself a contending team.

[paul253]

For Felix the Mariners could probably have their choice of prospects. Aside from Trout and Harper I can't imagine a lot of guys teams would refuse to trade for Felix. Like I said, if I'm trading him to Texas I start with Profar and probably can get another one or two prospects. One pitcher, no matter how good he is, cannot save a franchise. Three elite prospects might, especially with all the pitchers they have coming up.

[jjfanec]

I should point out I dont know ton about their prospects. Maybe those arms are cant miss type arms but I never assume a minor league arm is going to come up and be really successful. So, I guess maybe they should keep him, but I just dont see it. Texas and the Angels are going to be very tough the next few years and Oakland is playing really well right now. Seattle is not close to being a contender right now from what I can see

[TheCrew07]

It's not about attendance, it's about team building.

 

Seattle has 3 of the top starting pitching prospects in all baseball, and all 3 will pitch for Seattle in 2013. Hultzen is already in AAA and will likely start the 2013 season in the rotation. Walker and Paxton will start in AAA next season and see the rotation at some point even if only in Sept, but all 3 will definitely be in the rotation by 2014.

 

You don't need to develop your position players, you need starting pitching, they will have starting pitching and that will be enough, they'll win games. They can plug their position player holes through FA.

 

You don't trade Felix because with him + the 3 prospects you get a young rotation headlined by an elite vet like the Rays have had.

 

Their pitching would have to be phenomenal to overcome that terrible offense. It is great they have 3 of the top pitching prospects in the game but to assume all three are going to pan out is probably a false assumption. Felix is currently in the 2nd year of a 5 year deal. They wont compete next year. That would give them 2-years of Felix with a team capable of maybe finishing in the top 2 in their division.

 

The Rays when they have been a top team also had bats performing really well like Longoria, Upton, and others.

 

As I said, they have 2 FA periods to address position player needs beyond the idea that young players have a good chance to improve on their performance if you are patient with them. Many people around here couldn't wait to run Escobar out of town after a bad season he's become exactly what many of us on the minor league thought he would be. It just takes patience and a staff that's willing to coach and teach players how to play the game.

 

Worrying about attendance and a couple of wins here and there is actually the surest way to lose your job because you'll never get over the top that way. You want attendance? Build a team that can win and sustain success like they had about 10 years ago. Sure people want to watch great players, but how many fans were going to Brewer games just to watch Ben Sheets pitch when he was all we had here in Milwaukee? Attendance picked up to current levels when the team actually started winning.

 

Seattle has one of the best farm systems in baseball, perhaps you should go read up on their prospects before dismissing them.

[paul253]

Many people around here couldn't wait to run Escobar out of town after a bad season he's become exactly what many of us on the minor league thought he would be

 

Maybe I am remembering wrong but I don't think a whole lot of people were ready to run Escobar out of town. I understand what you are saying but don't exaggerate to make your point.

 

Seattle has one of the best farm systems in baseball, perhaps you should go read up on their prospects before dismissing them.

 

System rankings really mean nothing. Milwaukee had the best system awhile ago and without major trades they go nowhere. KC had far and away the best system in baseball last year and they are still struggling to get the wins. Seattle's is different in the sense that most of their top prospects are pitchers, but you can't just assume all the players are going to reach their potential. If all of Seattle's players reached their potential they'd be a lot better than they are right now. Smoak and Ackley were fairly well regarded prospects. Yes they are young but you are making the mistake of assuming they will eventually get much better.

 

Worrying about attendance and a couple of wins here and there is actually the surest way to lose your job because you'll never get over the top that way. You want attendance? Build a team that can win and sustain success like they had about 10 years ago. Sure people want to watch great players, but how many fans were going to Brewer games just to watch Ben Sheets pitch when he was all we had here in Milwaukee? Attendance picked up to current levels when the team actually started winning.

 

Is this an argument to trade him or keep him? It seems to me like it's an argument to trade him.

[jjfanec]

 

As I said, they have 2 FA periods to address position player needs beyond the idea that young players have a good chance to improve on their performance if you are patient with them. Many people around here couldn't wait to run Escobar out of town after a bad season he's become exactly what many of us on the minor league thought he would be. It just takes patience and a staff that's willing to coach and teach players how to play the game.

 

Worrying about attendance and a couple of wins here and there is actually the surest way to lose your job because you'll never get over the top that way. You want attendance? Build a team that can win and sustain success like they had about 10 years ago. Sure people want to watch great players, but how many fans were going to Brewer games just to watch Ben Sheets pitch when he was all we had here in Milwaukee? Attendance picked up to current levels when the team actually started winning.

 

Seattle has one of the best farm systems in baseball, perhaps you should go read up on their prospects before dismissing them.

 

Who wanted to run Escobar out of town? No one. I am not saying Montero wont be a good hitter but he isnt right now. Smoak has been a bad big league hitter. Ackley had a decent year and a bad one. A couple of those guys actually got worse this year.

 

With attendance you are actually making my argument for me because I think Seattle's chance to be very good for 6 years not just good in Felix's last year will come by trading him. I am not sure the point you are making.

 

I actually read up on some of their prospects and it seems like their top ones are very good but all pitchers outside of Franklin at SS but I dont claim to know a ton about prospects. I do know I have read articles by baseball people saying that Seattle should trade King Felix so some people who know the game better than me think the same thing

[torts]

loved escobar, bummed he was traded

[HiAndTight]

I wonder if Texas would give up Profar for Felix? I know division trades don't happen much but that seems like a deal that could benefit both teams. And actually, with him being locked up for so long I'd bet Seattle could get Profar plus something for Felix. I'd definitely consider it if I were Seattle.

 

 

I was just about to post just this when I saw you did. Profar for Felix would be a huge risk for the Rangers, but he could legitimately be the key to the World Series in the next couple years...and they could win a couple WS with Hernandez and really build a dynasty.

 

Of course if you're the M's, you DO have pitching prospects coming up, you are a organization that can spend money, and you have top young position prospects who are in their first couple years. Ackley, Montero, Saunders...pretty good trio. Makes sense to me why they'd keep him after losing Ichiro, but getting the bounty that they could get for King Felix would be amazing for them, and fit better into their window to compete.

 

By the way, if he were to hit the FA market this year, I wonder what he'd get. If Hamels gets 6/144, does Hernandez get 7/175?

[HiAndTight]

System rankings really mean nothing. Milwaukee had the best system awhile ago and without major trades they go nowhere. KC had far and away the best system in baseball last year and they are still struggling to get the wins. Seattle's is different in the sense that most of their top prospects are pitchers, but you can't just assume all the players are going to reach their potential. If all of Seattle's players reached their potential they'd be a lot better than they are right now. Smoak and Ackley were fairly well regarded prospects. Yes they are young but you are making the mistake of assuming they will eventually get much better.

 

So system rankings mean nothing? With all due respect, that's ridiculous. They mean almost everything.

 

You're picking out a couple teams that had nothing at the big league level and had to count on everyone from their farm system panning out.

 

If the Brewers had the top farm system in the game right now, I think that would mean something. Like it's meant something for the Braves, Rays, among other teams.

 

That the M's have a loaded farm system, and have 4-5 legit building blocks already on their team, it's obviously very important to have that loaded farm system.

 

That you just dismiss a highly rated system because that alone hasn't been enough, in the cases you mentioned, it's really been just one wave of elite prospects coming through. Teams like the Rays, Rangers, Red Sox at times, Braves, they develop their own prospects from within to supplement the building blocks at the big league level.

 

So yeah, I'd say it's pretty damn important..