Impressions of Roenicke 2012

[TooLiveBrew]

K-Rod doesn't qualify as a power pitcher anymore, unless you're just referring to his K rate.

[Ennder]

K-Rod doesn't qualify as a power pitcher anymore, unless you're just referring to his K rate.

 

Yes I was referring to the K rate. Basically the highest probability result of that matchup is an out with no runs scoring between his slow speed, his strike out rates and the fact he pops out a good bit.

[adambr2]

Anyone have a problem with Lucroy being pinch hit for Kottaras with the bases loaded and 1 out in the 9th?

 

I didn't, I thought it was the right call. I'm sure he did not anticipate George sitting there with the bat on his shoulders while 3 strikes got thrown right by him.

 

I have a problem with Cesar Izturis being on this roster, but that's in part also a Melvin issue.

[Baldkin]

I would've rather seen Nyjer there. Less chance of a DP and less K/PA.

[brettac1]

I think it was a good call. I pretty much expected Kottaras to draw a walk or K. Then Kimbrel started throwing strikes and that was the ball game.

[PrinceEatMeat]

The decision to use Kottaras was made well before that game really. Roenicke said he would always use Kottaras in situation where a hard thrower is in the game. Mainly because he's a good fastball hitter. Not really sure if it would've made a difference who was up there for that at-bat. So I can't really criticize Roenicke for it.

[Funketown]

This thread's been pretty quiet lately. Runnin' Ron's growing on me. He does some puzzling stuff (Gomez in the 2-hole), but I don't feel like we've seen as many boneheaded plays on the bases this season as last. I really liked his move to PH with Kottaras last night, although I didn't care for the Lucroy bunt with a 2-0 count. He picks his spots with IBB's very well, and doesn't go IBB crazy like so many managers these days. The defensive positioning seems to work out more often than not. The bullpen seems to be managed fairly well.

 

I'll be back to rant as soon as he does something silly, but for now I'll give RRR some credit.

[Thurston Fluff]

I don't feel like we've seen as many boneheaded plays on the bases this season as last.

 

I remember Ron saying something to the effect that, after two years of station to station baseball, it probably would take some time for the players to get the feel of when to run or take the extra base again. He understood there would be some growing pains and there was. But in the end the choice was to continue going station to station or to let the players loose a little and (re)learn how and when to be aggressive on the bases.

There are so many things that have to be looked at in the long view that sometimes it's hard to know if it ever will pay off. When it does it's still hard to remember back and determine if it was worth it. I think overall having a consistent philosophy is more important that the particular philosophy. If he wants to be aggressive then be so. If he wants to sit back and wait for the 3 run homerun fine. Just don't bounce back and forth and expect the players to respond well. He seems to get that.

[adambr2]

Going into Tuesday, Ramirez was hitting just .114 with five runs batted in. He was 3 for 24 on the Brewers' just-completed seven-game trip and is in the midst of his longest homerless streak to start a season since 2003.

 

"It's a slow start for him," Roenicke said. "He's not happy where he is. He came in and talked to me today. He wants to do something to help contribute to this team winning, and he feels that he isn't doing that right now.

 

"But I still like where he is as far as in the lineup. I think he's a guy that we're going to need to do this thing this year. If we don't have him, we don't have a good, solid fourth hitter, it's hard to get things done offensively."

 

 

Aramis to Ron: "Skip, there's no good reason for me to be batting cleanup. Let's move me down somewhere else, at least until I start heating up."

 

Ron to Aramis: "No."

[jerichoholicninja]

Aramis to Ron: "Skip, there's no good reason for me to be batting cleanup. Let's move me down somewhere else, at least until I start heating up."

 

Ron to Aramis: "No."

 

That seems so opposite from how it usually happens where the player takes a huge offensive to being dropped a spot in the lineup.

[fondybrewfan]

Ron is very much into set orders in the lineup so it isn't suprising that he wants Aram to battle through it in the #4 spot. Its not like he would move down to #8 or something; maybe #5 or #6. I don't think there would be much of a difference on this team whether you are batting 4,5 or 6.

[adambr2]

It's not a huge deal, but at this point, I would definitely swap Hart and Ramirez in the order, to a) try to just shake things up for Ramirez a little bit, and b) give Hart some additional RBI opportunities that Ramirez isn't converting.

[xisxisxis]

It's not a huge deal, but at this point, I would definitely swap Hart and Ramirez in the order, to a) try to just shake things up for Ramirez a little bit, and b) give Hart some additional RBI opportunities that Ramirez isn't converting.

 

Why stop there, remove ramirez, move everyone up, insert ramirez at #9. I think our pitchers are outhitting him so far anyways..... When he actually gets 2 hits in a game or a hit in 2 consecutive games then consider moving him up.

[DuWayne Steurer]

I was eagerly anticipating the 10th inning defensive alignment before G-Kot knocked the double off the wall last night.

 

I know it's easy to call it 'luck' after the fact when he supposedly pushed all the right buttons in the 9th inning, but he really put all his eggs in one basket with the way he dumped the bench out there. Granted, it's not like I was eager to see Izturis bat with the game on the line (which is why Lucroy shouldn't have been wasting an at-bat trying to bunt), but that's more of a roster problem.

[MVP2110]

I thought RRR managed the game perfectly last night, especially the ninth innings. He didn't play for extras. He played to win that inning. Get there first than figure it out. He put the team in the best position to win last night imo. The lucroy bunt didnt bother me at all either. Try to move the guys to 2nd and 3rd with 1 out would have been awesome

[Raw Biz]

I thought RRR managed the game perfectly last night, especially the ninth innings. He didn't play for extras. He played to win that inning. Get there first than figure it out. He put the team in the best position to win last night imo. The lucroy bunt didnt bother me at all either. Try to move the guys to 2nd and 3rd with 1 out would have been awesome

 

I didn't mind the bunt to start with but I would've swung away 2-0. But I applaud his emptying out of the bench.

[adambr2]

Agreed, that is one area where I greatly prefer RR over Macha. RR plays to win games and I admire that he isn't "overthinking ahead" and trying to figure out how he's going to get through the 11th and 12th innings when he could be trying to win it in the 10th.

 

Under Macha, Kottaras could have been the last guy on the bench in a tie Game 7 World Series and he wouldn't have dared make a move in case of a later catcher injury.

 

Nothing drives me nuts more than seeing a manager not take a chance to win the game because he's worried about next inning, only to lose the game the next inning, and when asked about it after the game, look at the reporter dumbly and exclaim something along the lines of , "Well, who was I going to have (insert: pitch, play right field, play 3rd base, play 1st base, etc) next inning if I did that??"

[monty57]

Going into Tuesday, Ramirez was hitting just .114 with five runs batted in. He was 3 for 24 on the Brewers' just-completed seven-game trip and is in the midst of his longest homerless streak to start a season since 2003.

 

"It's a slow start for him," Roenicke said. "He's not happy where he is. He came in and talked to me today. He wants to do something to help contribute to this team winning, and he feels that he isn't doing that right now.

 

"But I still like where he is as far as in the lineup. I think he's a guy that we're going to need to do this thing this year. If we don't have him, we don't have a good, solid fourth hitter, it's hard to get things done offensively."

 

 

Aramis to Ron: "Skip, there's no good reason for me to be batting cleanup. Let's move me down somewhere else, at least until I start heating up."

 

Ron to Aramis: "No."

 

RE the bolded part: This bugs me. Heading into the offseason, Melvin asked Roenicke what he wanted (thinking he'd say SS, 3B, etc) and he said "I want a cleanup hitter." That's the reason Melvin went out and signed Ramirez to what I consider to be a bad deal as due to the financial situation it had to be back-end-loaded to the detriment to future Brewer teams. Now Roenicke seems to be saying the Ramirez is the only option for the cleanup spot on our roster. Hart, Weeks, Braun, Gamel??? Nope, apparently only Ramirez can fill this spot in the lineup.

 

Why is this? Is it because Hart doesn't have the power or "RBI hittablility" to fill the role? Since Hart has 128 HR and 433 RBI in his career, and is currently leading the team in both categories, that can't be it. Or could it be a mentality that if a player hasn't done something in the past, then he can't do it. This would help explain a lack of faith in young players who haven't faced MLB pitching, and the reverse of it would explain why he thinks Kotsay can still play center field.

 

I've grown accustomed to some of what Roenicke does, but this is probably my biggest sticking point with him. Just because someone has done something in his career doesn't mean he still can, and just because someone hasn't done something in his career doesn't mean he can't.

[TooLiveBrew]

Well if you want to look at this in a behind-the-scenes kind of way (which is where I'm convinced RR has his greatest value as a manager), Ramirez hit his first HR last night, after possibly having his manager tell him that he believes in him too much to move him down in the lineup.

 

"He's not happy where he is" doesn't necessarily have to have anything to do with a batting order.

[monty57]

I'm not saying Ramirez should have been moved from his spot in the order. He's a good hitter and it's far too early to give up on him. I'm just saying that this offseason Roenicke said his #1 priority was a cleanup hitter, and he's still saying "if we don't have him, we don't have a good, solid fourth hitter." He must honestly believe that no one else on our roster is capable of hitting in the clean-up spot. It seems he's sort of putting the "closer/9th inning mystique" on the #4 spot in the lineup. Hart has never been a cleanup hitter, ergo he cannot hit cleanup.

 

edit: Basically, if he decided to keep Ramirez at clean-up because he is a good hitter and he believes in him, he made the right move for the right reason. If he decided to keep him at clean-up "because you're a proven clean-up hitter and no one else is," then he made the right move, but for a goofy reason.

[TooLiveBrew]

Sorry, I don't mean to disagree with you that the rigid notion of a Cleanup Hitter™ is a little silly (esp. if the idea is that Hart couldn't be one, arbitrarily). But honestly the discussion in this thread of RR's comments was the first thing I thought of once Ramirez's HR crashed into the HD deck last night. I just thought it was an interesting snapshot of the things we consistently hear about behind the scenes, as to why the players love Ron.

 

Ramirez: Ron, I'm having a hard time believing in myself right now, I don't have the swing or the confidence right now.

 

RR: Well I believe in you, and you're our guy.

 

Ramirez: [*boom* huge HR in same night's game]

 

 

EDIT: (yes, that's a corny way to relate it, but I believe that's the kind of stuff that makes the players love RR)

[Thurston Fluff]

That is why it's so hard to judge managers TLB. It's easy to see the game situations and make a judgement on them. It is less easy to see why moves may be made, or not made in the Ramirez case, as a way of relating to a player to get the most out of him over a long period of time. I think that is why so many people get hung up on game strategy, lineups and such as being so important to a manager's capabilities. In some ways it was like defense a decade ago. It's importance is hard to judge objectively or analytically so it was usually not deemed that important. Until we an quantify people skills managers will always be judged on what I believe to be minor aspects of their job. Maybe I'm wrong and people skills isn't that important but the Macha experience seems to point the other way.

[adambr2]

Consistency please, RR.

 

If you're willing to empty out your bench in one game and pinch-hit for position players with no one on the bench available if the game ends up tied, and then a few days later, presented with the exact same situation except you have players on your bench left, and you play it completely differently, it really looks like you're just winging it out there.

[RWeeksFan23]

The only thing I can think of, is he didn't wanna hurt Gonzalez's confidence, especially this early in the season. But with Izturis to replace him defensively, no reason not to pinch hit him for Kottaras or even Ishikawa.

[TooLiveBrew]

Yeah, I get why RR stuck with Gonzalez, but it would've been really nice to see Kottaras up there. Betancourt threw almost exclusively fastballs; I would've loved to see George get a chance to turn on one.