Impressions of Roenicke 2012

[Oxy]

How come in professional baseball we give the manager so much credit for keeping the players motivated? This isn't little league, where you have to buy them ice cream after practice. This isn't high school football, where some kid who will never play organized football again needs a pep talk from the coach in order to willingly smash his undersized body into a superior athlete. Most of these guys want to perform well, so they continue making hundreds of thousands, if not millions of dollars. 99% of them care about money first, team success second and I wouldn't expect anything more from anyone in this world.

 

I don't give RR any credit for the players not quitting since I wouldn't expect them to. I can't be the only one.

 

Because the good players already have more money than they know what to do with and they are going to get paid well whether they win or lose? Some guys have incentive laden contracts, in which case I agree with you. Still, there is something that separates the Robin Yount's, Chipper Jones', Derek Jeter's, Hank Aaron's and Jackie Robinson's from the Alfonso Soriano's, Albert Belle's, and Hanley Ramirez'. If you believe that people never change no matter who they keep company with or who they trust as an authority, you can believe that the manager doesn't matter. It seems to me that reality paints a different picture though.

[DuWayne Steurer]

How come in professional baseball we give the manager so much credit for keeping the players motivated? This isn't little league, where you have to buy them ice cream after practice. This isn't high school football, where some kid who will never play organized football again needs a pep talk from the coach in order to willingly smash his undersized body into a superior athlete. Most of these guys want to perform well, so they continue making hundreds of thousands, if not millions of dollars. 99% of them care about money first, team success second and I wouldn't expect anything more from anyone in this world.

 

I don't give RR any credit for the players not quitting since I wouldn't expect them to. I can't be the only one.

 

 

I'm with you on this Russ. There may be some apathetic players out there, but I think most of them, once they step on the field, block most everything else out, and give max effort most of the time.

[rluzinski]

Because the good players already have more money than they know what to do with and they are going to get paid well whether they win or lose? Some guys have incentive laden contracts, in which case I agree with you. Still, there is something that separates the Robin Yount's, Chipper Jones', Derek Jeter's, Hank Aaron's and Jackie Robinson's from the Alfonso Soriano's, Albert Belle's, and Hanley Ramirez'. If you believe that people never change no matter who they keep company with or who they trust as an authority, you can believe that the manager doesn't matter. It seems to me that reality paints a different picture though.

I did not mean to suggest that no manager can have a positive influence on individual and team performance through motivation and leadership. I am simply not going to assume that all managers can. Nor am I going to assume that whatever influence they have is strong enough to find any significant correlation between it and team success. I doubt it is, so we are left to simply speculate.

 

My base assumption is that professional athletes are largely motivated by self interest and a sprinkling of narcissism. Even if they are vets with guaranteed contracts, they want to continue excelling at that they've defined themselves by. They are also trying to win another big contract, even if they already have "more money than they know what to do with." (I've always found the argument that most people stop being motivated by money after acquiring a large amount, as most evidence suggests the exact opposite.)

[RobDeer 45]

I think the manager actually does have impact on how the team plays. Guys to give an a little extra at times (if he picks and chooses when to do that). If the player respects the coach, he'll give a little extra and will buy in to the approach the manager is preaching. If he doesn't respect him, he may only give 90% in the field and may try to just hit a few HRs instead of being a smart hitter. You can't tell me that good managers were able to get a little extra out of a guy like Manny Ramierez at times during a season? That guy was not max effort 162 games a year.

[thebruce44]

I give Ron credit for not having his team quit on him. How does he not get some credit for that?

 

That is true, he hasn't had the team quit on him and I suppose he deserves some credit for that. In my mind though, a large part of that is new, young players coming up to prove themselves more than RR cheerleading. Also, any positive effect he has had on the players motivation doesn't make up for his complete lack of logic and reason in many of his decisions.

[gregmag]

I don't like some of RR's strategic decisions at the margin. He seems, maybe just out of necessity, to have gotten more comfortable playing young players, and guys this year seem to have earned their PT more, so that's to his credit. He seems to have a very stable, upbeat demeanor, which is probably a good thing.

 

This isn't a commentary on RR, but I'm not going to give a manager credit for his players' not quitting on him. These are competitive athletes who also happen to make millions of dollars. If some combination of pride, competitive fire, shame, and greed can't keep them from quitting, then I think you have to question whether the manager is even remotely competent. I think not having the players quit is the bare minimum standard for a MLB manager.

[brewcrew03]

So let me get this straight.

 

When we sucked, and everything was going wrong, there were certain people on this site who said it was not because of RR.

 

Now that we are winning, there are those who think RR deserves the credit?

 

Ok, just checking.

 

It's almost as if this site has more than one person with different opinions.

[Thurston Fluff]

So let me get this straight.

 

When we sucked, and everything was going wrong, there were certain people on this site who said it was not because of RR.

 

Now that we are winning, there are those who think RR deserves the credit?

 

 

Sure but please don't try to portray people you disagree with as the only ones guilty of it. Some who blamed Ron for losing are not giving him credit now that they are winning. People have preconceived notions of the manager and look for things to reinforce that opinion. It's natural to do so.

 

How come in professional baseball we give the manager so much credit for keeping the players motivated?

 

I think the motivation now is the playoffs. You could put a chimp in now and the players would be motivated. A month or so ago that motive was a lot less apparent. I don't know if motivation is the right word. Focused maybe. While players will play hard for selfish reasons alone I think keeping them focused on team goals does have some impact. Why, for instance, would a player try to move a guy over trying to hit to the right side if he was only interested in his stats or his future paychecks? Why would he slide in hard to second to break up a double play or run hard on a grounder? When the team is in contention personal motivation for money and success are enough to explain it. When a team is as far back as the Brewers were and just traded their best pitcher it is less obvious simple greed is the answer. To come out and do all those little things shows a team wide focus on winning games despite their position not because of it. Self motivated to do well isn't the same as being focused on making the team better. It's the manager's job to keep all that self motivation focused on the end result. Some do it better than others. I tend to believe those who do it best make the best overall managers. Admittedly I cannot give anymore than anecdotal evidence to show it. Then again I don't think anyone has ever given much evidence game strategy makes a whole heck of a lot of difference either.