Impressions of Roenicke 2012

[rluzinski]

The Nationals TV announcers think the Brewers have quit this year.

 

That is evidence of the idiocy of sports media, nothing more. What does that even mean? Everyone on the 25 man roster? Certain players? How can they tell? Let me guess, the Brewers haven't been winning games lately so they "obviously" quit.

 

It's embarrassing.

[pacopete4]

Roenicke on Gamel:

 

"I don't know about him. We still like him but I don't think he's a guy you can say, 'Oh yeah, he can definitely do it.' "

 

 

Way to inspire confidence in the young man, Skip.

 

 

 

What's he supposed to say? Gamel has been nothing but disappointment. Immaturity, and now an injury. It's annoying. He's been flat out annoying. There are guys who get chances and make the most of them. And then there are guys like Gamel, Green, etc... who tinkle all down their leg when they get them. Hart is better. It sounds like Hunter Morris is even better. Hopefully Gamel will just go away, for good.

[TooLiveBrew]

What chance exactly was this that Green got?

[thebruce44]

Roenicke on Gamel:

 

"I don't know about him. We still like him but I don't think he's a guy you can say, 'Oh yeah, he can definitely do it.' "

 

 

Way to inspire confidence in the young man, Skip.

 

 

 

What's he supposed to say? Gamel has been nothing but disappointment. Immaturity, and now an injury. It's annoying. He's been flat out annoying. There are guys who get chances and make the most of them. And then there are guys like Gamel, Green, etc... who tinkle all down their leg when they get them. Hart is better. It sounds like Hunter Morris is even better. Hopefully Gamel will just go away, for good.

 

Wow, just wow. It sure is easy to anonymously sit behind a computer and criticize someone you know nothing about.

 

Remember when ignorant fans said the same stuff about Hart? Now its all forgotten though.

[pacopete4]

Roenicke on Gamel:

 

"I don't know about him. We still like him but I don't think he's a guy you can say, 'Oh yeah, he can definitely do it.' "

 

 

Way to inspire confidence in the young man, Skip.

 

 

 

What's he supposed to say? Gamel has been nothing but disappointment. Immaturity, and now an injury. It's annoying. He's been flat out annoying. There are guys who get chances and make the most of them. And then there are guys like Gamel, Green, etc... who tinkle all down their leg when they get them. Hart is better. It sounds like Hunter Morris is even better. Hopefully Gamel will just go away, for good.

 

Wow, just wow. It sure is easy to anonymously sit behind a computer and criticize someone you know nothing about.

 

Remember when ignorant fans said the same stuff about Hart? Now its all forgotten though.

 

I would say it to your face if you'd like me to. I think the guy is a chump. His immaturity has been noted plenty over the years. He's not the answer, never will be. Maybe he'll be a good bench guy if he can learn the OF.

[rluzinski]

Why do people post this kind of nonsense on these boards? There are any number of message boards you can post this stuff on and you will have plenty of guys responding with, "Yeh! He's lazy and dumb and doesn't want it enough!" Go there.

[thebruce44]

 

 

 

What's he supposed to say? Gamel has been nothing but disappointment. Immaturity, and now an injury. It's annoying. He's been flat out annoying. There are guys who get chances and make the most of them. And then there are guys like Gamel, Green, etc... who tinkle all down their leg when they get them. Hart is better. It sounds like Hunter Morris is even better. Hopefully Gamel will just go away, for good.

 

Wow, just wow. It sure is easy to anonymously sit behind a computer and criticize someone you know nothing about.

 

Remember when ignorant fans said the same stuff about Hart? Now its all forgotten though.

 

I would say it to your face if you'd like me to. I think the guy is a chump. His immaturity has been noted plenty over the years. He's not the answer, never will be. Maybe he'll be a good bench guy if he can learn the OF.

 

Would you say it to his face since that's obviously the point I was making. Do you know a lot about Gamel's training routine? Have you spent a lot of time with him in the last year since his work ethic and attitude has been noted as remarkably improved?

 

Is your answer to all of those questions no? Then maybe you should stick to criticizing things you know about.

[pacopete4]

Then maybe you should stick to criticizing things you know about.

 

 

The entire boards is criticism about things we "technically" don't know about. It's OK for someone to not like a Brewers player and still be a Brewers fan. Trust me, read the boards, there are plenty. Heck, there are guys who hate on players who have done a lot more for the Brewers than that scrub has. Down boy... DOWN!

[Baldkin]

 

Tensions are high! EYE FOR EYE!

[thebruce44]

Then maybe you should stick to criticizing things you know about.

 

 

The entire boards is criticism about things we "technically" don't know about. It's OK for someone to not like a Brewers player and still be a Brewers fan. Trust me, read the boards, there are plenty. Heck, there are guys who hate on players who have done a lot more for the Brewers than that scrub has. Down boy... DOWN!

 

There is a lot of good debate here, and very little of it revolves around speculation of a players work ethic, maturity level, or other things that can't be measured.

 

Most posters here take great care to not speculate on matters they can't deduce from watching the games, looking at statistics, or reading reports from people with knowledge of the situation.

 

Your posts in this thread fly in the oposite direction, and to say "well other people do it on here too" is nothing more than a cop out.

 

Maybe try to educate yourself a little before taking such a stance. Here is an article to get you started:

 

http://www.usatoday.com/USCP/PNI/Sports/2012-03-07-PNI0307spt-cacfeatPNIBrd_ST_U.htm

[rluzinski]

Then maybe you should stick to criticizing things you know about.

 

 

The entire boards is criticism about things we "technically" don't know about. It's OK for someone to not like a Brewers player and still be a Brewers fan. Trust me, read the boards, there are plenty. Heck, there are guys who hate on players who have done a lot more for the Brewers than that scrub has. Down boy... DOWN!

 

The issue is not liking or disliking a player. The issue is personal attacks of players based on speculation, rumor and hearsay. It's tabloid-esque and i believe that Brewerfan.net strives to be above that.

[adambr2]

There is no way that at least, to me, anyone can spin that Roenicke quote and make it anything other than exactly what it is.

 

Roenicke's treatment of Gamel has been disgusting -- and I'm not talking about his playing time, but how he's been portrayed in the sports media by Roenicke.

 

Last year, when people wanted to see more playing time for Green, Roenicke pointed out that some players do well in AAA but that it doesn't always "translate over". And he used Gamel's name to make his point.

 

Now he says something like this. Does it honestly take a degree in public relations to figure out that saying these types of things about your young, cost-controlled players, who have yet to establish themselves enough at the MLB level to develop a great deal of confidence, is probably not a good thing?

[MJLiverock]

At some point even the fans who defend Gamel bitterly (and yet don't know him any more than those fans who criticize him) have to admit there has been more than just made up quotes or just RR blindly questioning Gamel's attitude or what have you. Seems multiple sources have made a point of bringing this up or providing a sort of back handed compliment, be it RR, Money, Melvin, and every time it comes up some poster get mad or calls it unfair or unfounded. I doubt the team really wants to just make stuff up about a guy who they would like to succeed and have no real incentive to criticize other than to try to an motivate, it isn't like he is in big salary negotiations. I have to believe the team officials have more basis for their comments than any poster and seeing it come up more than once makes me believe there is or was something to it.

 

I want Gamel to succeed but it doesn't prevent me from believing there are some negative intangibles floating around him holding him back. Hoping a player succeeds doesn't mean he can't be criticized for attitude or whatever, especially when it comes from the people who actually know the situation. Using the, "fans don't know him," card to come down on doubters seems foolish since it cuts both ways, and fans don't know their hoped positives are true either.

 

I think there tends to be some over reaction on how guys like Green or Gamel are treated. The fail rate on prospects is very high and neither guy has been considered a can't miss prospect outside of Brewerfandom. Assuming the coaches and baseball people who are experts in the area, and see these guys every day, are all idiots or have a vendetta against guys or that every quote is a slight is a bit much. I hope they do well but I don't just assume they are all great guys and that somehow the team just doesn't want that surefire .350/.450/.800 bat in the lineup because they are stupid.

[Funketown]

Rumor has it Mat Gamel is very fond of large orange traffic cones. From what I hear, he also has a sister that is willing to defend his rebellious good looks.

[thebruce44]

At some point even the fans who defend Gamel bitterly (and yet don't know him any more than those fans who criticize him) have to admit there has been more than just made up quotes or just RR blindly questioning Gamel's attitude or what have you. Seems multiple sources have made a point of bringing this up or providing a sort of back handed compliment, be it RR, Money, Melvin, and every time it comes up some poster get mad or calls it unfair or unfounded. I doubt the team really wants to just make stuff up about a guy who they would like to succeed and have no real incentive to criticize other than to try to an motivate, it isn't like he is in big salary negotiations. I have to believe the team officials have more basis for their comments than any poster and seeing it come up more than once makes me believe there is or was something to it.

 

Yes, I agree that some of the quotes were getting worrisome the last couple of years before this one. Coming into the season, all we heard about was how he had gotten it and dedicated himself. Yet, it seems its impossible to shake a reputation, even when you are just a kid learning how to be a professional. Apparently giving a kid the benefit of the doubt makes me mad and bitter, so be it.

 

I think there tends to be some over reaction on how guys like Green or Gamel are treated. The fail rate on prospects is very high and neither guy has been considered a can't miss prospect outside of Brewerfandom.

 

Lets not act like we built Gamel up here on these boards. He reached #34 on BA's top prospects due mostly to his offense. He was surrounded on that ranking by guys like McCutchen, Andrus, and Jesus Montero. Then his development stalled and fans started to dislike him for only providing average offense in 100 some sporadic ABs at the MLB level. I've seen it happen countless times when a player struggles. It happened with Weeks, it happened with Hart.

 

I get what you are saying, and no prospect is can't miss, but do we really need to fall into this trap of calling a guy lazy, or questioning his professionalism when we really don't know the whole story?

[pacopete4]

The point is there is plenty of evidence towards him being a lazy [expletive deleted]. Maybe it's the reason other guys have panned out and were still waiting on him? I read that crap USA Today story before the season. Yay!! So glad Gamel took the time to actually be a professional now. Or so at least he says. Easy to say the right things when a job is basically handed to you when there is no one else to even push you.

[1992casey]

pacopete4, I removed "POS" from your post above. Check out FFE:

 

What kind of language is not allowed? …

 

Do not use acronyms, abbreviations or creative spelling to avoid the cuss filter. This includes replacing letters in cuss words with characters or spaces. As an example, the use of "BS" is not allowed when intended to stand for a cuss word ("what a load of BS"), but is allowed when intended to stand for non-cusses (Ben Sheets, blown save, bachelor of science, etc.).

[MNBrew]

Roenicke on Gamel:

 

"I don't know about him. We still like him but I don't think he's a guy you can say, 'Oh yeah, he can definitely do it.' "

 

Way to inspire confidence in the young man, Skip.

Isn't it obvious that all Roenicke's saying is that they all believe in Gamel's ability, but also that Gamel just doesn't have enough of a major league track record yet to know that you can count him as the automatic RF for next year? Isn't Roenicke just saying that while they like him, it's not like he's an All-Star coming back from an injury, and therefore he still has something to prove?

 

Really, isn't it that simple?

 

Gamel was justly lauded for his improved attitude & work ethic coming into spring training. His play at 1B wasn't flawless but it was improving, and he was still getting on track at the plate. To me, the net is that the knee injury just means Gamel's going into 2013 with the same stuff to prove production-wise as he did going into 2012 -- with the very possible twist of another new position (RF) to get acclimated to.

[TooLiveBrew]

The point is there is plenty of evidence towards him being a lazy [expletive deleted]. Maybe it's the reason other guys have panned out and were still waiting on him? I read that crap USA Today story before the season. Yay!! So glad Gamel took the time to actually be a professional now. Or so at least he says. Easy to say the right things when a job is basically handed to you when there is no one else to even push you.

Why do you bother to hate someone you don't even know like this?

[endaround]

If Hart isn't playing RF he should be traded to someone who will play him in RF.

[adambr2]

Seriously, with the bunting man. What the hell is wrong with you? Do you not realize that one of the elements of the squeeze play is to catch the other team off guard, it is not meant to be used as a regular routing with a runner on 3rd and 1 out?

 

And the relievers...oh yes, they're bad, but we finally had something going with Henderson, and he figures he can roll the dice and try the old KRod/Axford combination in the 8th/9th again, and predictably, another blown game. 2011 was a long time ago, Ron.

 

Can one of the RR apologists please tell me how he is qualified to be an MLB manager with reasoning that goes beyond his team winning 96 games last year and the players liking him?

[adambr2]

Oh, and one more thing.

 

When 1st and 2nd are BOTH open with 1 out, and the guy on deck is hitting .056, is it really the worst thing in the world to walk a guy? You know, put the infield back at normal depth so a ground ball let's you get out of this thing? No...let's just bring in the infield in and hope for the best.

 

It's sad when this was the least of RR's failures tonight.

 

Roenicke on Gamel: "I don't think he's a guy you can say, 'Oh yeah, he can definitely do it.' "

 

Pretty much the same way most Brewer fans feel about you, Ron.

[nate82]

Can one of the RR apologists please tell me how he is qualified to be an MLB manager with reasoning that goes beyond his team winning 96 games last year and the players liking him?

 

He is breathing and has been in baseball for awhile that is all he needs to be to be qualified as an MLB manager.

 

I wonder if Joe Maddon was the Brewers manager and he had Aramis Ramirez bunt two times in one game how much would this board blow up. Or how badly Joe Maddon mismanaged his bullpen in his earlier years, wait we have that right now. There is no such thing as a good, average, or great manager every single one does more stupid things than you can even count up to in a single season.

 

If you think this teams record is because of Roenicke you are just fooling yourself which even includes last years record. At best a manager is going to win you maybe one game a year if you are lucky. Most of the time the manager is either going to lose the game by doing something stupid or the team will just play poorly for no apparent reason at all. This years bullpen is completely underperforming and that is putting it lightly.

[sixtolezcano16]

I just don't think that RR has a very good handle on how to manage a pitching staff. Anyone who has watched the Brewers this year could see that Axford was going to fail after that first batter walked. As much as I dislike LaRussa, at least he had the balls to pull a pitcher after one batter. I've NEVER seen RR do this even when he's put in a LOOGY.

[joepepsi]

I wonder if Joe Maddon was the Brewers manager and he had Aramis Ramirez bunt two times in one game how much would this board blow up.

I wonder if the Brewers bullpen would be one of the best in MLB with Buck Showalter as manager.

 

Bullpen management is the biggest impact a manager can have on a single game. RR continulally sets up the pen for failure. Unless management is forcing him to use KRod in the 8th, Axford in the 9th, he assumes an sizable portion of responsibility for their continued failures.