Impressions of Roenicke 2012

[monty57]

And this is where you have to look at Melvin a little bit. Going into the season with Izturis as your primary back at all of 2B, SS, and 3B is asking for disaster if any regular starter goes down, which obviously happened.

 

We're $10MM over budget and still had no money for depth or to fill holes, so we end up with some bad players and we're totally at the mercy of the injury bug. That happens when you refuse to trade players away, and instead either lock up talent to "market value" contracts (putting most of your resources into a few players) or lose players to free agency, and then refuse to trust rookies to play vital roles on the team. That in a nutshell is why we can't extend Greinke, as it would just make the problem worse with even less talent surrounding our dwindling group of talented players.

 

Those who were/are proponents of the "go all in when you get a shot" strategy over the "build for the long term" strategy will now see what happens after you've "taken your shot." We've got a lot of money tied into a few players and very little pre-arby talent to help out. Our "shot" fell a little short last year and completely fizzled this year. I hope Melvin has the wherewithal to sell soon to recoup something for the future.

 

As to Roenicke, whether it's the second half of this season or next season, we'll soon get to see if he can manage with young players. If he can't, then he's not the manager for the near future of the Brewers.

[topper09er]

The team is a complete joke right now, trotting out the league MVP, 3 other MLB players, 2 minor league players, a bodreline minor league CF platoon and the worst player in the league every night. No one can win with that especially when you consider the bullpen is blowing leads (which is partially RR's fault)

 

However, he is still a bad manager. He does not manage anything, everything he does he has predetermined before the game, he never makes any adjustments. The only adjustments he ever makes are forced on him, KRod for Loe and Hairy for McGehee last year. The bullpen is struggling except for 1 guy right now, Parra, yet its going to be KRod 8th Ax 9th NO MATTER WHAT. Even if this team was in first Weeks would stay in the starting lineup all season until we traded for a guy, but since we wont trade for anyone this year Weeks will start 150 games with his .190 ave.

[jerichoholicninja]

The team sucks, and it's not Ron's fault that it sucks, but he is a terrible manager. I never thought I could hate a manager more than Neddy or Grandpa Ken but I do.

[adambr2]

And this is where you have to look at Melvin a little bit. Going into the season with Izturis as your primary back at all of 2B, SS, and 3B is asking for disaster if any regular starter goes down, which obviously happened.

 

We're $10MM over budget and still had no money for depth or to fill holes, so we end up with some bad players and we're totally at the mercy of the injury bug. That happens when you refuse to trade players away, and instead either lock up talent to "market value" contracts (putting most of your resources into a few players) or lose players to free agency, and then refuse to trust rookies to play vital roles on the team. That in a nutshell is why we can't extend Greinke, as it would just make the problem worse with even less talent surrounding our dwindling group of talented players.

 

Those who were/are proponents of the "go all in when you get a shot" strategy over the "build for the long term" strategy will now see what happens after you've "taken your shot." We've got a lot of money tied into a few players and very little pre-arby talent to help out. Our "shot" fell a little short last year and completely fizzled this year. I hope Melvin has the wherewithal to sell soon to recoup something for the future.

 

As to Roenicke, whether it's the second half of this season or next season, we'll soon get to see if he can manage with young players. If he can't, then he's not the manager for the near future of the Brewers.

 

This in bold to me is the key and why I think this team is heading for a rebuilding process. To teams with budget constraints, 0-3 pre-arby contributors are worth their weight in gold -- for the simple reasons that you are getting production at basically no cost! (relative to usual market cost).

 

Bryce Harper is a great young player (and just one of many examples), but you know what the part that is just as good for the Nationals is? They pay him next to nothing! That offers you tremendous flexibility to use your budget elsewhere where you haven't been able to fill the void with arby and pre-arby players. This is why, when you trade a guy like Brett Lawrie away, as excited as some people are to get Marcum, you haven't just lost Lawrie, you have lost all future flexibility that you had at 3B to basically have a productive position for "free", and as a consequence you'll now be paying an aged Aramis Ramirez $16M in 2 years which hinders $16M of your payroll to use on a reliever, shortstop, starter, anything.

 

We have no 0-3 players currently to be excited about. Our best 0-3 players are a backup catcher and a utility infielder. There are none on this team that are likely "superstar" or even "starting" players. To me, that says it all -- the writing is on the wall that we are just not built for success in the near future.

 

Sacrificing long-term building for short-term success in MLB is not a sustainable strategy if your team is not the New York Yankees.

[TooLiveBrew]

I get sick of the "blame the manager" game every single year. The team sucks right now, and it's not his fault.

And 100% just like last season, most people's complaints about RR's boneheaded in-game moves have nothing to do with results or team W-L. It sure was his 'fault' last season that the team was winning, when it came to discussions that were critical of his in-game strategy, so you'd better believe that it's his 'fault' now that they're losing.

 

Not that I genuinely feel that way, but it can't be both ways so conveniently for the crowd that doesn't seem able to separate bad strategy from good or bad results.

[logan82]

Of course it's not his fault we are as bad as we are right now. He might even be a good manager for a team like we have right now. If he really is a good player's manager. Kind of hard to tell right now. The only adversity they faced last year was a kind of slow start within his grace period early in the year. Even during Weeks injury last year they played really well so it was easy. They are facing a really tough time right now for the first time. Since we are not really playing for the playoffs this year(my opinion) I am not as concerned with the few extra wins a decent manager would get for us. That in now way means I think he is a good manager. As long as he starts getting some of the younger players more playing time so we are prepared for the future we are ok with him as a manager. I have no faith we will see that though. That may be a directive from the front office though. It is really hard to separate where the owner's, GM's and manager's decisions leave off. I have a feeling that "going for it" is a directive from on high(Mark A.). I also have a feeling as long as there is some sliver of hope to make the playoffs, nothing is going to change.

 

 

Not that I genuinely feel that way, but it can't be both ways so conveniently for the crowd that doesn't seem able to separate bad strategy from good or bad results.

The "we are winning so he is a good manager" argument was used quite a bit last year. This year we are seeing "there are a lot of injuries, what is he supposed to do." I don't know if it is the same people though.

[monty57]

As long as he starts getting some of the younger players more playing time so we are prepared for the future we are ok with him as a manager. I have no faith we will see that though.

 

Well, our first hint is that Estrada is going to be in the rotation when he's back from injury, so we'll probably see Fiers sent back to AAA.

 

Throw in that Taylor Green can't seem to find any playing time, even when Weeks is playing poorly (I'll be nice) and Ramirez is injured and can use a day off here & there. When Ramirez was out Ransom played 3B with Maysonet at SS, so I guess "two time minor league player of the year" Green is somewhere below Ransom on the "future of the team" depth chart.

 

As I stated earlier, we don't have much pre-arby talent, but the little we have should be getting some playing time to see if it's any good rather than wasting away behind players we know don't have much future. I guess that is unless we're planning on having Estrada in the rotation next year and Maysonet / Ransom at SS/3B. If that's the case then I hope we blow up the whole thing and play for three to four years from now.

[FVBrewerFan]

Injuries are a valid reason why we shouldn't expect 90 wins again this year. It's not an excuse for the horrid baseball we've seen all year.

 

Just last night, bad throw/decision to end the game. But prior to that Gomez is doubled up at 2nd on a routne fly to CF. Aoki is thrown out trying to steal, Braun hits a HR right after that. No idea if RR calle dthose or not, but it doesn't matter. ONE game and 3 bad decisions cost them the game.

 

And there have been other games with even more mistakes. Can't remember the details, but Braun gunned down at home a few days ago on a very shallow fly to LF with a guy who has a gun. Again, Braun may have decided to gi. but Sedar needs to stop him. Otherwise why is he even there??? How many times this year did a player not know how many outs there were? I know of at least 4 times. That can happen maybe once all year, and it's happened 4 times already and the season isn't even half over?

 

We have watched this crap day after day. The Manager is responsible for this. If he's not who is? Every team will make a bone-headed mistake, but this team does it far too often. I could give many more examples. This is beyond what I would call "Manager's preference" like suicide squeeze, etc.

 

Beyond all that, Topper is right. RR is incredibly slow in making a change. When Gamel went down, Hart or Green should have been the full time 1B immediately. Aoki starts full time immediately. No, instead we had a 3 man rotation in CF that changed every day. 48 different guys at 1B. This isn't Little League, everyone doesn't need a chance. You are the manager. You should know your own talent.

 

Now, with all that said I'm not even syaing RR should be fired after the season. Not ready to go there yet. I just don't understand wh ythere was such a hurry to extend him.

[fondybrewfan]

People that liked what RR was doing last year because we were winning and are having a problem blaming him this year that we are losing aren't any different than the people saying we were winning despite him last and this year we are losing because of him. Either you like him or you don't. He is worlds better than any manager in recent memory at least in my opinion.

 

I think RR is a good manager that perhaps plays it by the book in the bullpen a bit to often. He doesn't hesititate to move around the lineup to accomodate struggling players and he doesn't hesitate to move people on the bases. I personally like that. If he has one fault it is definitely that he plays it by the book too much with the bullpen.

 

I just can't bring myself to putting a whole lot of blame on the manager right now due to the extenuating circumstances. He has hitting coaches and pitching coaches that should be correcting the mistakes of the poorly performing players. Maybe he hired some crappy coaches I don't know; but it is hard to blame RR for Weeks not hitting or Gallardo walking a million guys.

[logan82]

To much small ball is a big problem with him. Our OBP stinks and he lets his guys give up outs on the bases.

[TURBO]

The team sucks, and it's not Ron's fault that it sucks, but he is a terrible manager. I never thought I could hate a manager more than Neddy or Grandpa Ken but I do.

 

^this

 

RR is no manager, he is a robot, he doesn't manage anything. Well, that isn't true, he manages to come up with cute nicknames for his players, that has to be worth something.

[phnxcrew]

I've always found it creepy the way managers have cute nicknames for their players... It's like they actually think players are their children.

[dlk9s]

You guys don't have friends with nicknames?

[adambr2]

Haha, I don't have a problem with nicknames, but the adding "ie" or "y" to any name is so cheesy.

 

I think we all called "Izzy" a month or two before Roenicke first used it.

[endaround]

If he calls Maldonado "Moldy" all is forgiven.

[bullox]

Guessing he's a Marty.

[thebruce44]

People that liked what RR was doing last year because we were winning and are having a problem blaming him this year that we are losing aren't any different than the people saying we were winning despite him last and this year we are losing because of him.

 

Most people aren't saying we are losing because of him. They are saying he makes poor decisions despite the results. That hasn't changed since last year...people are just pointing out how lame the ideas about him being a good manager last year because of the record were.

[FVBrewerFan]

Most people aren't saying we are losing because of him.

 

 

True, most aren't- but I am. Go back to yesterday's game. Rolling 4-1 with 2 outs in the 7th. Single to CF, easily scroing the runner from 2nd. But Morgan attempts to throw the guy out at home, so runner ends up on 2nd. Next batter hits it in the hole at SS. Ransom has no play at 1B, but would have had a relatively easy force at 2nd to end the inning. Brewers still up 4-2. But wait, there was no force because of Morgan's hair-brained throw the abtter before. So the Twins tie it 4-4, go on to win in extras.

 

What does any of this have to do with RR you may ask? Well, nothing if this was an isolated incident. But it's not, of course. Fundamentals on this team have been horrible all year- last year too. It's just that last year they have enough talent to overcome all the mental mistakes. This year they don't.

 

One of the few things a manager has control over is getting his team to play sound baseball. RR is failing in that regard.

[jerichoholicninja]

Most people aren't saying we are losing because of him.

 

 

True, most aren't- but I am. Go back to yesterday's game. Rolling 4-1 with 2 outs in the 7th. Single to CF, easily scroing the runner from 2nd. But Morgan attempts to throw the guy out at home, so runner ends up on 2nd. Next batter hits it in the hole at SS. Ransom has no play at 1B, but would have had a relatively easy force at 2nd to end the inning. Brewers still up 4-2. But wait, there was no force because of Morgan's hair-brained throw the abtter before. So the Twins tie it 4-4, go on to win in extras.

 

What does any of this have to do with RR you may ask? Well, nothing if this was an isolated incident. But it's not, of course. Fundamentals on this team have been horrible all year- last year too. It's just that last year they have enough talent to overcome all the mental mistakes. This year they don't.

 

One of the few things a manager has control over is getting his team to play sound baseball. RR is failing in that regard.

 

I can only fault Ron for two things in yesterday's loss.

 

1. Sticking with Greinke to give up the tying runs, but honestly the bullpen stinks and whoever was brought in would probably have done the same thing.

 

2. Going with Perez instead of Para. Maybe Para was unavailable and it's not like Perez stunk it up but bringing a guy in who hasn't pitched in over a week with the winning run on third seemed pretty dumb to me.

[Marc Newfield of Dreams]

I'm still tryin' to figure what is considered an important inning by Ron.

 

The other night in Chicago, down 7-6 in the eighth, he brings in Dillard who gave up a run.

 

Tonight, in a 2-1 game in the eighth, he brings on Parra, who gives up a big run.

 

Rodriguez had faced two batters since June 19th. He's still better than Dillard or Parra. When keeping it a one run game is crucial, why not use your best guy? Granted, it didn't matter. But it still confuses me.

[rluzinski]

I'm still tryin' to figure what is considered an important inning by Ron.

 

The other night in Chicago, down 7-6 in the eighth, he brings in Dillard who gave up a run.

 

Tonight, in a 2-1 game in the eighth, he brings on Parra, who gives up a big run.

 

Rodriguez had faced two batters since June 19th. He's still better than Dillard or Parra. When keeping it a one run game is crucial, why not use your best guy? Granted, it didn't matter. But it still confuses me.

He probably had some super secret reason why both matchups were favorable for Dillard and Parra. Probably based on super-duper statistical analysis that we wouldn't understand anyway.

[FVBrewerFan]

How many times do we have to endure watching a player not knowing the count or how many outs there are? I'm sure it's just me, but that reflects on the manager.

[Nottso]

I like Roenicke, or at least I think I'd like him if I knew him personally, and I do like the aggressive play on the base paths but I'm beginning to have my doubts about him as manager. Not because of his decisions, although many are questionable, but because of the poor fundamental play we're seeing.

 

I may be wrong, and I'm sure I'll be corrected if I am, but it seems to me that the managers that have enjoyed long term, consistent success have always fielded teams that played good, rock solid, fundamental baseball.

 

How many games have we given away due to lapses in fundamentals and how many games have we failed to take away, when given ample opportunity, due to lapses in fundamentals?

 

These guys are killin' me. just killin' me.

[dlk9s]

How many times do we have to endure watching a player not knowing the count or how many outs there are? I'm sure it's just me, but that reflects on the manager.

I don't blame the manager for that stuff. These guys are adult professional baseball players. They don't need to be taught/reminded how to look at the scoreboard or ask the ump a question.

[FVBrewerFan]

How many times do we have to endure watching a player not knowing the count or how many outs there are? I'm sure it's just me, but that reflects on the manager.

I don't blame the manager for that stuff. These guys are adult professional baseball players. They don't need to be taught/reminded how to look at the scoreboard or ask the ump a question.

 

Apparently they do. This is the manager's #1 job function. Set a tone that your team will be fundamentally sound. Find a way to get through to your players. If it was just Morgan I could even give him that one. But it's not. Beyond not knowing how many balls you get in an AB, the bigger issue to me is just bad decisions, lack of execution, and bone-headed plays almost every night.

 

If the manager isn't responsible for any of that, then I'm not sure why you need a manager.